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Site Tool : Change in reporting similar pages
Is this a new feature?
Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 10:46 pm on Feb 7, 2007 (gmt 0)

In the last few days, all of our 8 sites are now reduced from the full page no. of results [ approx [ 70,000 ] to only show:

Results 1 - 1 of about 260 from oursite.com

with only 2 page results and a note:

In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 1 already displayed.
If you like, you can " repeat the search with the omitted results included. "

When clicking on the "repeat .... link " it shows most of the pages.

Is anyone else experiencing this?

What does this say about Google's interpretation of the site's pages?

 

caryl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 12:00 am on Feb 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

YES!

People are reporting this in this thread...

[webmasterworld.com...]

My site has been 'slowly leaking' :(

It is now Results 1 - 4 of about 1,570

Caryl

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 12:00 am on Feb 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

Now this is really fascinating.

I'm noticing pages not included in site:oursite.com appearing in site:oursite.com/widget1/ with exactly the same results pattern as above.

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 1:02 am on Feb 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

Caryl - Thanks for pointing this thread out - I didn't pick up on your inputs there, but maybe seperating this out specifically to a site:tool command thread will better identify some issues with focus.

My hunch is that Google is turning up the dial on "duplicate content" again. Possibly 1) KW density 2) the % of common content between pages 3) the % of common content between different sites.

I'm wondering if folks with high %'s in these categories are effected and I'm also wondering if syndicated feeds are falling into this situation.

Caryl - If you take a unique snippet of content from your site do those snippets still produce a near No1 result?

[edited by: Whitey at 1:10 am (utc) on Feb. 8, 2007]

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 12:49 pm on Feb 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

Didn't see this thread earlier, but I wrote this elsewhere first:

.

Hmm. I am seeing for some sites that have had unique title tags and unique meta descriptions for quite a long time, that they now show "Results 1 to 2 of about 200" where the first result is normal, and the second result is Supplemental. That is then followed by the usual "In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 3 already displayed. If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included." text.

So far, those have also been sites that drop the root index page from searches for "pages from the UK" at www.google.co.uk whereas the root page still shows up in "the web" searches.

Google has upped the filtering on "similar pages", especially on site:domain.com searches.

caryl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 2:11 pm on Feb 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

I still have some 2 keyword phrases that come up at position #1 - even though those pages have been 'omitted' from the site search!

A search for www.mysite.com returns the site in #1 position.

There is absolutely NO similarities in Titles and Descriptions and the only similarity between pages is the page format and the theme of the topic.

I have 10 other subdomains (all similar) that are NOT experiencing this phenomenon.

As I have stated elsewhere my records indicate that this very same 'phenomenon' happened on Oct 6th and 7th. It lasted only 2 days, at that time.

It was the topic of discussions in other forums.

Here is what it looked like back in October:

10/3/2006-1000 of about 1,500
10/4/2006-1000 of about 1,480
10/5/2006-1000 of about 1,480
10/6/2006-11 of about 1,480
10/7/2006-11 of about 1,480

10/8/2006-1000 of about 1,530
then it just stablized...

(?)

The only similarity I can see right now (long shot) is that I added 100 pages a month previous to the October event AND I added 50 new pages 1 month previous to this current event.

Both times when I have added pages, Google was reluctant in adding them.

The 50 pages I added on December 26th have remained Supplimentaland they were only reflect in my total pages results DURING this recent phenomenon. Please note that my server logs reflected that Googlebot had spidered all 50 of the new pages on Dec 27th.

Back in Oct - my total pages did not start to increase to include new pages until AFTER that 'phenomenon'.

I still suspect that Google is having internal spidering problems. i.e. the left hand is dropping stuff that is being handed to it by the right hand...

I think that this is being under-reported in the forums simply because folks don't make it a practice to check site:search results regularly.

Caryl

caryl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 3:24 pm on Feb 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

I also wanted to add that I have also seen much heavier than normal spidering of this site over the last month!

Normally, this site gets somwhat 'heavy' spidering every 4th or 5th day (been like that for the last year).

BUT in the last month (Starting Jan 6th) I have recorded 'heavy' spidering 20 out of the last 30 days!

At the rate Google has been spidering and Google dropping my pages - They should ALL BE GONE by Saturday! :(

4 of about 1,480 - If this were likened to 'a blood pressure reading' - I'd be dead and Google is treating me that way... (help - there is 'internal (page) bleeding' going on somewhere)

Caryl

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 11:45 pm on Feb 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

caryl - keep the info coming , i do hope we can get some objective analyse going. I believe Google is OK, but the affected site's need careful revision. Repeat - careful.

g1smd - I am seeing for some sites that have had unique title tags and unique meta descriptions for quite a long time, that they now show "Results 1 to 2 of about 200" where the first result is normal, and the second result is Supplemental.

- Our 2nd result is not supplemental
- On some of our sites we are near 100% free of supplementals when clicking on "show more results"
- A site:tool search on a page like this site:oursite.com/Widget1/ shows the same pattern as described above.
- Meta titles and meta descriptions are unique
- Currently our traffic is increasing.

Current observations:

- Header text is sometimes being displayed in the SERP's "description"
- Sites with good "trust rank" seem to be unaffected
- Affected members reporting traffic climbed first then crashed

Is anyone experiencing anything else?

[edited by: Whitey at 11:49 pm (utc) on Feb. 8, 2007]

Bewenched

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 1:29 am on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Humm ... I'm not seeing the same phenomenon in the site: command.

I'm not given the option to see other omitted results even though it is showing.
Results 11 - 20 of about 52,500 (we actually have about 90k on the site)

I am seeing recent cache dates Feb 7, 2007 that are not supplimental.

The supplimentals start showing up with cache dates from november-december.

our traffic has been slowly increasing bit by bit month by month since august. We were hit very hard by big daddy last year.

[edited by: Bewenched at 1:31 am (utc) on Feb. 9, 2007]

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 2:55 am on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

I'm still speculating that the duplicate content filters have been raised a notch recently per g1smd's comment above.

Approximately 33% of our meta description is unique to each page which may not be enough. We'll increase it to around 75% and see if this makes an improvement in around 4-10 days.

Caryl

caryl - I still have some 2 keyword phrases that come up at position #1 - even though those pages have been 'omitted' from the site search!

Just repeating does a snippet of unique text on one of your pages produce a No1 position. Don't worry about keyword phrases - i want a sense of how your site pages may be filtered.

Some more questions.

What % approx of your meta description is unique?
Are you using feeds for content?
If so, are those feeds linked from you and/or vice versa?

[edited by: Whitey at 3:06 am (utc) on Feb. 9, 2007]

myvoice

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 5:42 am on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

omitting results despite indexing all the pages because of the way it indexed the site which didn had any description tag and having unique titles for all the pages. This site is a very small site.

and It gives the results like this

about 8 out of x results and the 8 look like this - except homepage.

menu, cat 1, cat 2, cat 3, cat 4, sub cat 1, sub cat 2, sub cat 3... if the subcat 3 page is shown in the site: search.

Down below these results, shows

"we have omitted the results which seem similar to the above ones listed"

I guess This mainly happened because when I checked with a text browser, the menu(navigation links) text has come after the title tag text and when this text is only ten or 12 words, then G is excluding the menu navigation links text and showing the few lines of first paragraph as the description.

Now I have made a unique description for each page to get rid of that kind of a display

still waiting to index back with the unique descriptions i ve made.

There is absolutely NO similarities in Titles and Descriptions and the only similarity between pages is the page format and the theme of the topic.

Affected members reporting traffic climbed first then crashed - this is very true in my case.

caryl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 12:27 pm on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Whitey,
Just repeating does a snippet of unique text on one of your pages produce a No1 position. Don't worry about keyword phrases - i want a sense of how your site pages may be filtered.

Some more questions.

What % approx of your meta description is unique?
Are you using feeds for content?
If so, are those feeds linked from you and/or vice versa?

A search for one of my page titles comes up #1. A search for a line of content deep within the page, in quotes, comes up #1 - EXCEPT - in that result Google displays in the snippet for that page the beginning of the MENU! I have not seen that before.

All pages have 100% unique meta descriptions (I use a snippet of pertinant text from the content of the page).

Yes, my main page (only) has a rss news feed at the bottom of the page. No feeds on the other 1599 pages.

I must go back to that result (just mentioned above) where Google is displaying text from the site menu as the snippet in the results! - the page has good meta description and content why would Google display menu?

Something is wrong there! As I have said before Google has been spidering the site heavily every day now for 8 out of the last 10 days. IF Google is now seeing the menu as part of the content on the page - THIS would sure make my pages look like duplicates.

I have to look into this more!
Caryl

caryl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 1:41 pm on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Here is another observation:

My "in trouble" site is a subdomain. It is one of eleven subdomains I have off of my main site.

The site search I have been seeing the loss of pages on is site:sub1.mysite.com.

I just did a search for site:www.mysite.com and the results included ALL ELEVEN SUBDOMAINS in addition to the pages that are on www.mysite.com!

ODDER YET - The results for site:www.mysite.com show my main page of the "in trouble" subdomain in the #1 position while the index page of www.mysite.com is #5

results for site:www.mysite.com...
1. sub1.mysite.com/("in trouble subdomain")
2. sub2.mysite.com/
3. sub3.mysite.com/
4. www.mysite.com/internalpage.htm
5. www.mysite.com/
6. sub4.mysite.com/
7. sub5.mysite.com/
8. sub6.mysite.com/
9. sub7.mysite.com/
10. sub8.mysite.com/
11. sub9.mysite.com/
12. sub10.mysite.com/
13. sub11.mysite.com/

How wierd is that!
Caryl

ubuntuguy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 3:36 pm on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

i'm seeing the same thing with my site
site:mysite
gives me
1-1 of 350,000

with just 1 url showing.

however, looking at my access logs , people are still finding me via google searches.

JeremyL

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 4:23 pm on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Same thing here. It's a Yahoo store.

Zero supplemental results in the top 1000
12,000 pages indexed
Traffic is steady
Rankings are steady with some increases for terms we are targeting

I think it's a bug with he site command when doing straight site searches with no keywords because "site:domain.com keyword phrase" does not have the same issue.

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 4:24 pm on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

I thought I understood in a general way how filtered results worked, but I am pretty sure Google changed something recently - I'm just not sure yet if it's only the site command that is working differently, or everything else.

Only a couple of my client sites, and my one personal event site are experiencing this right now. For my client's site, the first result is his home page, then come a bunch of PDFs that are strictly informational, and then a bunch of supplementals with old cache dates. If I get to the end of the supplementals and go into the filtered results, tons of product pages show up - however, these pages ARE coming up in regular searches.

For my event site - every url is a different city. There are some similarities in titles and meta tags, because it's database driven and I haven't worked out a way to make them entirely unique and not garbage to the human eye yet. A site command shows only two pages, and then all my old supplementals. When I go into filtered results, most of my pages are there.

However, this site has suffered no loss of traffic (actually it's way up) and almost every search I can come up with (cityname event) is in the top ten - and it's still #1 for all the most important search phrases. So despite being confused about what I'm seeing with site, it's doing well, even better than normal.

I have another small site, 7 pages. All but two pages (one of which is the sitemap) filtered out. However, a search for the subject of one of the filtered pages (a movie title) comes up #2 in the SERPS.

So I guess I don't understand filtered results after all.

(Note, I'm only talking about FILTERED, not SUPPLEMENTALS, which is an entirely different kettle of fish)

ubuntuguy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 4:49 pm on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

"If I get to the end of the supplementals and go into the filtered results, tons of product pages show up - however, these pages ARE coming up in regular searches."

yes i'm getting that too on my site. I'd guess that it must be a bug of some kind with the "site:" command.

and sub-domains shouldnt be appearing if you do a site:www.site command. i'm seeing subdomains for quite a few site:www searches now.

try out site:www.yahoo.com to see a really obvious version of this.

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 8:55 pm on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Netmeg - I am pretty sure Google changed something recently

Absolutely!

About 7 weeks ago we added some more pages with the meta descriptions having approx 40% common characters/content. The pages cached and indexed within 3-5 days, then remained stable, producing increased results. Only these pages, 1 week ago, have now gone "supplemental".

Again, I think part of the secret is in g1smd's comment and i suggest analysis of the % of common characters and phrases in your meta descriptions and title - please let us know what you see as it will be very helpful to getting this right.

The site:tool is serving as a warning that you must make these changes urgently, or your results will potentially crash [ IMO ]

[edited by: Whitey at 9:06 pm (utc) on Feb. 9, 2007]

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 9:48 pm on Feb 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

caryl -

Some more things:

OK - so your meta descriptions are 100% unique. What about your meta title?

So your unique content snippet is showing you at No 1 - so this indicates some heavy filtering [ not penalties IMO ]

What can you see that might be triggering the filter in your meta's , body content , same content linked from another site to your site [ including sub domains which are treated as a seperate URL ]

I'm still pursuing the idea that you are experiencing a duplicate / similar content filter - again just my hunch which has kicked in with the additional sensitivity. Maybe you could do some more digging to find this.

fyi - i have also seen some meta description results with text in our header being brought in. Before we had navigation elements as well. I don't know what to make of this.

[edited by: Whitey at 9:50 pm (utc) on Feb. 9, 2007]

caryl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 12:25 pm on Feb 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Whitey,

The meta titles are also 100% different!

I think you are on to something, though...

I am STILL very concerned about that search I did yesterday where the Google 'snippit' showed the text of the navigation menu!

If Google is somewhere storing that text before the actual page content for EACH PAGE - THAT would make it appear to be duplicate content across every page on the site.

Knee-jerk or not, I removed that navigation menu yesterday. If my pages get restored, I will create the menu in Javascript or something so Google will not use it as part of the content of the page.

The menu was inserted on the page as an 'include'.

Caryl

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 9:59 pm on Feb 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Since it seems to be happening with every domain, I doubt it's a phenomenon similar to before where the omitted results had duplicate description or other issues.

Domains showing only one or two pages may need to worry, but I doubt "showing 152 of 166" when all are unique is a major problem since it seems every site (over 100 pages anyway) comes up something like this.

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 10:24 pm on Feb 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

steveb - It's worth taking this on board and looking for other things - nothing's certain yet, for sure.

caryl - Those sub domains concern me. How are you linking those to the main pages? Is the content the same? Would Google see this as duplicate/similar content since sub domains [ I believe ] are treated as seperate domains.

fyi - i doubt that it's the navigation IMO

mirrornl

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 12:03 pm on Feb 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

"site:domain.com" and "site:domain.com keyword phrase" is showing subdomains for one of my sites for over a month here

caryl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 7:56 pm on Feb 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

caryl - Those sub domains concern me. How are you linking those to the main pages? Is the content the same? Would Google see this as duplicate/similar content since sub domains [ I believe ] are treated as seperate domains.

fyi - i doubt that it's the navigation IMO

Whitey,

IF this has anything to do with duplicate content - then it could only be due to the fact that Google is storing my site navigation menu as text on my pages ahead of the actual content.

My main site is an SEO/webmaster site - the subdomains are "libraries" with different topics all pertaining to website development and marketing. BELIEVE ME - there is not any duplication of title, description, or content between any of them.

Origianlly, there was some meta tag duplication on each of the subdomains but that was all taken care of last August.

My main site is 6 years old. The subdomains are a year old.

Caryl

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 1:15 pm on Feb 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

I think this will be a topic that Matt Cutts might get asked about at SES London in the next few days...

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 10:11 pm on Feb 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

caryl - These are the 2 scenarios I'm picking up. Please clarify if i am wrong and which one applies [ or another ] :

1. If text and link text are the same on site A and site B [ Sub Domain ] there could be a risk of dupe content - but I'm not certain. This risk may increase if the order of the text is the same as the navigation - it smells of the same source.

2. If blocks of text are the same between site A and site B [ sub domain ] and there is a link between them, certainly the risk is HIGH for dupe content [ In fact I'd say certain ]

caryl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 10:38 pm on Feb 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

No, neither scenario applies.

BUT - I do have an update!

My pages are coming back.

Yesterday - 4 of about 1,470
today - 181 of about 1,580

Caryl

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 5:03 am on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

caryl - Interesting. Although early days, did you make any changes that you think might of helped, or should we wait a bit longer?

piney

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 4:21 pm on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

Caryl,

In the same way that you're seeing text from your navigation menu, I'm seeing text from (I think) my alt tags. The text preceeds the description in the site:search although it is actually below the meta tag on the page itself, being that it is an alt tag in the header images for every page).

Gina

Whitey

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whitey us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3245763 posted 6:20 am on Feb 14, 2007 (gmt 0)

Approximately 33% of our meta description is unique to each page which may not be enough. We'll increase it to around 75% and see if this makes an improvement in around 4-10 days.

A large number of pages are now cached with the unique content % now increased in the meta description - there's no changes to the behaviour of the site:tool on our site , except to show the new meta descriptions. It still has the 3 of 260, then "similar results" opening up to around 50,000.

Some further analysis of some sites shows me that unaffected sites have a much poorer % of unique content than us.

It's got me beat for an answer ..... we'll gave it a few more days, hopefully the whole site network will be re cached by then

[edited by: Whitey at 6:22 am (utc) on Feb. 14, 2007]

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