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This 185 message thread spans 7 pages: < < 185 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 > >     
The "Minus Thirty" Penalty - part 5
#1 yesterday and #31 today
jwc2349




msg:3213384
 3:30 pm on Jan 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

<continued from [webmasterworld.com...] >
< part one: [webmasterworld.com...] >

Still penalized for 56 consecutive weeks now. Domain name search swings between 33-45. However, sadly the targeted search terms I follow so closely and ranked #1 for almost all of 2005, now turn up from #283 to #950. This occurred last Friday. They used to be in the same #31-#45 spot.

We have followed everything Adam has pontificated about:

1) make your site squeakly clean. We did. On November 20 we ditched all the crap the hired programmers put up last year which apparently triggered the penalty.
2) provide unique and compelling content. 78,000 new, unique content pages in the past 21 days! Site is now 95% new, unique content--something Google says they love.
3) ask yourself this question: "...why would someone choose my site over others in the same field..." That is an easy one. We provide a unique visual search method. So we are definitely not run of the mill.
4) then file a reinclusion request. Filed on 12/14/06.
5) et al

But Adam also stated: "... it would be extremely rare for a site to be penalized for years..." Looks like we may be that extremely rare occurrence.

FYI, Google continues to crawl aggressively and has since October 5.

Lastly, while Google says that they listen to webmasters and provide communication via their webmaster central and notify webmasters of reasons for penalties or impending penalties, they can't hold a candle to MSN.

I notified MSN in August that I thought I had been unfairly penalized. They answered back in about 10 days stating that I was right, that I had indeed been unfairly penalized and that I would be seeing a return to the serps in a couple of weeks.

They lived up to their word. I did return to their index and guess where I rank and have ranked for months for my targeted search terms. #1, #2, #3 or at least page 1 or 2 for all my targeted search terms (such as <edited>). The SAME EXACT search terms I used to rank #1 for in Google.

Makes you wonder how much Google really does care about correcting an apparent error. Sure doesn't seem like they live up to their promises of communication. Heck even convicted murderers come up for a parole hearing every few years.

<Sorry, no specific search terms.
See Forum Charter [webmasterworld.com]>

[edited by: tedster at 3:49 pm (utc) on April 5, 2007]

 

AustrianOak




msg:3238321
 3:05 pm on Jan 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

James45, thanks for the update, keep us posted.

I know what you mean about being penalized yet seeing your competition using every spam trick in the book continuly ranking in top spots.

ramachandra




msg:3239133
 4:31 am on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

I got one site which ranks at #2 for my domain name search, but for my targetted kw's I am ranking way down, some kw's ranks between 50 and 100 and for main kw it's ranking at 350+, is my site too fall under this penalty?

tedster




msg:3239149
 5:13 am on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

From a earlier post in this long discussion:

First thing I want to clarify is what this pheomenon looks like: your domain used to rank well for a number of searches, and now all those searchs show you at position #31, top of page 4. The very best test to discover if you are infected is this: do a search on your domain name itself - type example.com into the Google search box, a search where you naturally expect to be #1. If you have this particular penalty against you, then even that search will show you at position #31.

Let's not assume every ranking problem is the -30 penalty. It's pretty rare, and it's getting rarer, from what I can see. In fact the -31 position is no longer a solid indicator, but the domain search is always knocked far off the first page...if it isn't, then something else is going on.

northweb




msg:3239160
 5:42 am on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

I'm still bouncing between 28 - 40 )

AustrianOak




msg:3239162
 5:59 am on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

yes, I see between 28 and as high as 60 in my case at times.

northweb




msg:3239518
 3:52 pm on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

AustrianOak - thought for awhile i was the only one left
with the -30 penalty. maybe our sites are crosslinked!@#$@

HaH!

dangerman




msg:3239540
 4:05 pm on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Good point Tedster.

AustrianOak, you and I are one of the early victims of this penalty, which I believe is not being applied in the same fashion any longer. The penalty is definitely manually applied and also requires manual reinclusion. Don't ask me how I know, but I have now had my suspicions confirmed from a source that knows all, if you see what I mean. It is also not classed as a penalty but as a warning before eventual removal from the index. There is likely to be a site-wide problem, but you are not going to get a hint from Google about what it is. That's all I can find out at this stage, will keep you posted. Go through your pages again, look for common code that might be offensive. Especially look out for links to other sites you own.

AustrianOak




msg:3239575
 4:37 pm on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

dangerman, interesting. Are you 100% sure that it is manually applied?

dangerman




msg:3239657
 5:43 pm on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

That's what I was told. Depends how you define manual. You and I know a subset of sites got hit with this 'penalty' on a particular date. Google search guys live and breathe databases. A bunch of senior search dudes have a meeting, and agree that sites that flag yes to all of x, y and z code/parameters/behaviour/link types need to be warned that this is not what is desirable on the search engine and need to be warned/punished. So -31 punishment code gets written to send a clear 'down but not out yet' warning message, a button pushed and whack. I don't believe that they often get involved in dishing out penalties on a strictly individual basis. It's a group here, a group there. But the real point is as we already know, that it needs a manual reinstatement.

AustrianOak




msg:3239730
 6:26 pm on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Interesting because there have been a few individual that have claimed to have done NOTHING after being penalized by this penalty and have come out a few months later. Unless they are lying - which I don't see the purpose to - it just throws another spin on things.

I remember Adam Lasnik pointing out that he highly suggests that if you feel you are under a penalty then you should submit a re-inclusion request to "speed" up the process. My take on that is that the penalty can be removed automatically once you have made the correct changes and the next time googlebot takes a closer look at your site will notice it and penalty lifted.

Either way.. it's a case where google doesn't like something or things that our sites have.. somethign that are written between the guideline lines and we need to figure them out.

[edited by: AustrianOak at 6:28 pm (utc) on Feb. 1, 2007]

dangerman




msg:3239752
 6:41 pm on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

This is what top Google search guys told me straight. I guess we will never know for sure until we experience a lifting of the penalty ourselves. The idea would be to make any required changes, then wait a week or so for the googlebot to do its thing. If no lifting, then do the reinclusion request. Apparently my prob is site-wide and code-based so good trail to go sniffing down again, though almost can't believe I and many others have missed something so obvious..

AustrianOak




msg:3239841
 7:41 pm on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

dangerman, it's great you received some serious help from the top. Sounds like you've figured out the problem, good luck!

I would say it takes googlebot much longer than a week to find changes. I get deep crawled maybe a few days out of every 6 weeks or so.

AndrewSlk




msg:3240132
 11:05 pm on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

I don't believe that they often get involved in dishing out penalties on a strictly individual basis. It's a group here, a group there.

I agree. Penalty was applied simultaneously to my site, and to my competitor's site that I mentioned earlier.

SeoCatfish




msg:3240158
 11:36 pm on Feb 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

I got a question for people who have been affected by this penalty.

Are all the sites that are affected by this penalty in some way linking directly to known affiliate houses like linkshare, cj.com, etc?

Just wondering how strong the connection might be between affiliate marketing and this penalty.

AndrewSlk




msg:3240187
 12:22 am on Feb 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

I got a question for people who have been affected by this penalty.
Are all the sites that are affected by this penalty in some way linking directly to known affiliate houses like linkshare, cj.com, etc?

Just wondering how strong the connection might be between affiliate marketing and this penalty.

I suspect the connection is quite strong. We are the link directory, but we only have 4-5 ads on whole site - all other data is a links to resources and it's descriptions and reviews. We aren't just affiliate site, we are building our database of resources for over 7 years, and this is the main target of our work, not affiliate content or affilliate links.
But looks like G doesn't care. The monopoly for information has to be in G's hands, all others must create a sites which only should be the sources for G's database. They are using content of our sites (copyrighted content) on their servers and in their databases for their own purposes and for gaining the profit. But don't forget, without my, yours, their sites - google is just useless set of algos. Don't forget it - King is not G. King is you - who built a new sites with new content. And G uses them free of charge in own purposes.
I heard of project of US law, which should order any SE to get a permission from every site they are going to crawl, before their content will be used in SE database. I think it's reasonable, content is copyrighted, so why SE use it without any permission on their servers?

AustrianOak




msg:3240272
 2:30 am on Feb 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

SeoCatfish,

from the pages affected that I have been able to browse, I would say it's split evenly between sites containing affiliate links to those that have nothing to do with selling.

AndrewSlk,

some good points. BUT, google can simply say.. "if you don't wish to be part of the google index then place a 'no index' in your robots tag, if you do wish to be part of our index, follow our rules or else." Simple as that.

Only thing I request is a bit more effort at communication with those webmasters that have been unfairly marked as spammers.

[edited by: AustrianOak at 2:33 am (utc) on Feb. 2, 2007]

dangerman




msg:3240491
 10:25 am on Feb 2, 2007 (gmt 0)


dangerman, it's great you received some serious help from the top. Sounds like you've figured out the problem, good luck!

Not getting excited yet, have thought I have been close on several occasions, to be ultimately disappointed. They refuse to tell me exactly what the actual problem is, but the hint has firmed my resolve to get this site cleared. Will keep you posted.

James45




msg:3240608
 12:53 pm on Feb 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

An interesting thread can be found here:

[webmasterworld.com...]

Everything described there is exactly what I am seeing on my end.

The sitemap is downloaded and instantly I dissapear from the serps for days if not weeks at a time. Makes you wonder....

walkman




msg:3240966
 6:11 pm on Feb 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

manual re-inclusion seems to be required. I have changed so much stuff over the past months, yet only a reinclusion request made it happen (Now I rank great for the front page keywords and Goog is in the process of reindexing my site.)

Let me confuse things: has a re-included site gone back to -31 without changing anything /by doing the same stuff or do they get a somewhat trusted label?

AndrewSlk




msg:3241399
 12:53 am on Feb 3, 2007 (gmt 0)

Only thing I request is a bit more effort at communication with those webmasters that have been unfairly marked as spammers.

It's not about spam, can't you see it? G is now defining by itself, is the site "too similar" "not interesting" "not enough informative" "too affiliate" and applying to sites other, too subjective filters. And this is the manual correction of their ranking. And where is the human - there is subjective criteria. So perhaps your site dropped out from top results just because somebody decided that your site is not enough comprehensive or not enough interesting for your niche.
AustrianOak, you are waiting for rising for many months, but looks like someone decided that whole your work is a crap, and your site is not interesting for visitors any more. And guess who decided it?
Here the nature of this kind of penalty.

AustrianOak




msg:3241555
 5:28 am on Feb 3, 2007 (gmt 0)

AndrewSlk, perhaps, perhaps not. All is 100% guessing and speculation always will be with these types of penalties because there is no direct communication. Doesn't affect me, just pushed me that much harder to prove my site is worthy. I just keep on working until I am redeemed, it's all part of the game. That's life my friend.

Anyone have any updates / news on the penalty?

Gavolar




msg:3241612
 8:29 am on Feb 3, 2007 (gmt 0)

My site has the 31 penalty but I just noticed in Google India my site doesn't come up in the results for it very unique name, but shows up for its very competitive keywords (80,000 SERP) all around the 3rd page. Any one else notice this?

[edited by: Gavolar at 8:31 am (utc) on Feb. 3, 2007]

AustrianOak




msg:3251340
 2:51 pm on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

Still alive, still an issue.. sill fighting for the cure!

How is everyone making out?

I am nearing month 10..

Oak

northweb




msg:3251432
 3:57 pm on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

I'm in the same spot for 3 weeks with no movement.

How is everyone else doing? Those of you who recovered are you still out?

northweb

Pico_Train




msg:3251473
 4:32 pm on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

Are you guys on page 4 always or do you also have symptoms where it's a multiple of 30 - like result 180 or something along those lines?

jjdesigns4u




msg:3251534
 5:37 pm on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

What is the email address you should send a reinclusion request to when you think you have fixed all of the problems that triggered the penalty?

AustrianOak




msg:3251630
 7:42 pm on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

Pico_Train,

results are strictly between slots #28 and as high as #59 for domain name search.

daveblake




msg:3251690
 8:39 pm on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yes #28 to #59

myuniquedomain.com is on #28 right now

myuniquedomain is on #36 right now

Fed up with this I have to say. 10mths in the doghouse. Tried everything, I mean everything except the one thing that will make the difference - Google know but won't tell. All these hurrahs about new webmaster tools in sitemaps - big deal! Is no help to me whatsoever. Just want someone at Google to spend two minutes communicating. It is crap.

walkman




msg:3251765
 9:41 pm on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

ladies and gentlemen,
you need to file a re-inclusion request IMO. On a rarely used /test domain, I deleted everything three weeks ago, google has visited it several times and noticed the pages gone, yet no improvement (I dont think I rank within 1000). What's left are a few TOTALLY non commercial pages--no ads whatsoever.

northweb




msg:3251775
 9:55 pm on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

Most of the time I'm around 45. urls between 28 - 50

shredder




msg:3251814
 10:23 pm on Feb 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

Still the same since August 11.2006. Tried everything. Nothing works. In Germany more then 90% use Google as their searchengine. It's like been killed. :( All pages between 28-59. Before August 11. I had 6000 Visitors dayly. Now 250.
I don't know the reason.

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