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This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37 ( [1] 2 > >     
Is there any point in adding new content?
Considering the Xmas SERPs debacle...
OptiRex



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 1:02 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have had two people working for two months so far on new, original and relevant content for my sites. Until now they are about 600 pages into a +/-25,000 pages addition and I was very happy with their progress until 20th December.

Now I'm wondering whether the effort is even going to be worth anything whatsoever with this crazy Xmas debacle occurring.

Will they be spidered, won't they?

Will they be see in the SERPs or won't they?

Will they have a penalty against them since they're too new and not considered authoritative even though I know they will be the ONLY such pages on the entire Net?

These pages are/were being created out of my love for my trade and I am personally paying for them and expected over many years to recoup this cost by the small amount of AdSense revenue they would possibly generate.

These pages were not being built to make a fortune, they were being built for informational and educational purposes, HOWEVER if there is no chance of them ever of deriving any kind of income (from AdSense at the moment) then I may as well stop them right now.

Google is now acting in a similar fashion to a government when it tweaks interest rates to curb consumer spending and it is having entirely the same reaction.

Do I bother to invest or not?

Personally I have no financial motive to do so therefore, like governments, Google ought to take much more seriously and responsibly the effect an algo tweak may have on investment decisions.

 

plasma

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 3:37 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Xmas debacle

What debacle? My SERPs are better than ever.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 3:43 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Xmas debacle

Yes! Please do confirm what the Xmas Debacle is. Did I miss something?

doughayman

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 3:46 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

It didn't effect everyone, but DID effect me!

Until we can draw any sort of meaningful conclusions, I will NOT add any content.

Right now, things look quite bleak.........

travelin cat

WebmasterWorld Administrator travelin_cat us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 3:51 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

hmmmm, we add content daily through our forums as well as updated and new pages, they are all being spidered and served up in the SERPS.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 4:03 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've seen some sites I follow drop to the second page. None of mine were hit, though. If your site historically sits at the top of the serps then if one were to judge by past experience, it's very likely to come back within weeks or even a month or two.

If your site was in the top for only a few months, then that's a different story. It might not come back.

jbinbpt

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 4:04 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Is it just Google or are they missing everywhere?

kpaul

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 4:07 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

If it's good unique content, there are never any reasons not to add it. With that said, though, I might not dump 600 pages all at the same time. You want it natural, going up a little at a time.

-kpaul

jetteroheller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jetteroheller us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 4:33 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

It's really very frustrating and destroys motivation what happens with Google SERPs. I am on the rollercoaster sinc June 27th.

Only recovered from September 30th to November 2nd.

But I still add new content.

There are this RSS feeds. Using them becomes more and more popular.

Firefox has RSS feeds as "dynamic bookmarks".

The new MSIE 7 hat the main functions of a feed reader built in.

So there is a new game to gain repeated visitors by new content distributed by RSS feeds.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 4:33 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have to ask again, what Xmas Debacle?

I've seen some sites I follow drop to the second page. If your site historically sits at the top of the serps then if one were to judge by past experience, it's very likely to come back within weeks or even a month or two.

I'll agree with MB. This is somewhat common behavior with Google. Especially if there are major shifts in the index count. If you see pages drop, pay close attention to the number of pages being returned for that query. Usually it is quite a bit higher at the point your pages are moving. I call it Google Juggling.

OptiRex



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 5:55 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have to ask again, what Xmas Debacle?

Well, it's easy to see who's a nice Xmas break and not been affected nor read any of the current threads!

I now know why I don't bother with this forum when mods jump down my throat for posing a perfectly valid question.

Bye...no more comments from me.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 6:39 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Well, it's easy to see who's a nice Xmas break and not been affected nor read any of the current threads!

I now know why I don't bother with this forum when mods jump down my throat for posing a perfectly valid question.

Ooops, it wasn't meant to be that way. I'll have to be honest and say that I've not read any of the current threads in regards to an Xmas Debacle. I'll have to scan the list again to see what's happening. Maybe I did miss something?

P.S. I don't see anything on the Home Page in regards to the Xmas Debacle. That's probably why I missed it. Usually Debacles will make it to the Home Page. ;)

<added> Ah-ha, you must be referring to this topic...

20 Dec 2006 - Data Refresh or Penalty?
[webmasterworld.com...]

Sorry, didn't realize there was something drastic going on. It must be affecting a small group of people as it would have surely made the Home Page by now?

reseller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 9:38 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

pageoneresults

Sorry, didn't realize there was something drastic going on. It must be affecting a small group of people as it would have surely made the Home Page by now?

With all due respect, Mr Moderator, thats the most arrogant argument that could be posted in this particular connection when the sites and business of maybe hundreds of our WebmasterWorld fellow members have been affected so badly as several threads reflect during this December.

An opology to our kind Senior Member OptiRex is due, IMO.

castar

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 9:46 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

I too have been hit hard by this, whatever this is. Today, I had to send emails to my writers to tell them that I will not be able to pay them to write content, unless things change. One of them have been writing original content for me for two years. Another is a journalist for a local newspaper. My income has dropped to 1/3 of what it was. We've had a site at number one for a bunch of keywords since 1999. I guess its a waiting game at this point.

glengara

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 9:52 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

AS is the Kiss of Death....

bobothecat



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 9:59 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

With all due respect, Mr Moderator, thats the most arrogant argument that could be posted in this particular connection when the sites and business of maybe hundreds of our WebmasterWorld fellow members have been affected so badly as several threads reflect during this December.

Reseller,

This supposed 'update' has not affected as many as you would imply, otherwise it really would be news. Nothing like trying to inflate the numbers - yet why would I be surprised with this coming from someone that probably knows more about Matt Cutt's private life than his own cats:

I guess you are refering to the SEO-Card of Emmy Cutts (Matt's 2 years old cute cat) better known as "Spam Killer".

Btw, Matt and Brian White (member of Google WebSpam Team) are trying to figure out how to map spam sites into laser pointer dots, and Emmy will be all over them! :-)

"High voltage blinking neons" might refer to the blinking neons all over the streets in Eastern Kentucky where Matt grew up. Matt is still facinated of those colourful blinking neons, as far as I recall.

In fact Matt has another cat, one year old Ozzie, better known as "bouncing Oz". Rumour has it that Ozzie has subjected Brian White to very intensive training in how to identify and kill european subdomains spam :-)

[webmasterworld.com...]

OptiRex:

I'm truly sorry to hear of your problems, but I would have to agree with others... your listing(s) will probably come back - it's just an inconvenient down time. It's happened to me several times over the past decade with Google.

[edited by: bobothecat at 10:05 pm (utc) on Dec. 26, 2006]

icedowl

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 10:03 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

a small group of people

Certainly not a small group from the looks of things in this forum. It's just that more keep getting whacked as time goes on and the numbers affected just keep growing.

Personally, my sites got hit nearly a year ago and haven't recovered yet. Yahoo sends 10 visitors for every 1 that Google sends. Google is also being outdone by both MSN and ASK. I've given up on Google ever being a decent traffic source again. I'm just glad that other engines exist.

I'm rebuilding my sites from using CMS packages back to HTML with no databases and letting the chips fall where they may. I no longer give a hoot what Google does with them. I've had it with their idea of search results as I can't even find info myself that has nothing to do with any of my sites content.

Optirex, I sure hope you have better luck than I've had and that your sites recover quickly.

And, by the way, I will definitely be adding new content!

mattg3

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 10:03 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

No to new content, the constant ups and downs are useless. It's much better to let things run, cash in what is available, and look for better opportunities than this everflux debacle. No stability means no or only short term business opportunities.

mattg3

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 10:13 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

This supposed 'update' has not affected as many as you would imply, otherwise it really would be news.

Personally I would say if a PR7 gets hit, it should be news. Everflux will of course dilute the effect as the usual disasters are spread over more time. If so many say they have been hit in a dynamic system something is up.

bobothecat



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 10:23 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

If so many say they have been hit in a dynamic system something is up

How many actually? 5,10,20? I've read the other thread in it's entirety - other than a lot of repeat posts... it doesn't seem that many folks where/are affected:

[webmasterworld.com...]

Sorry, but some folks seem to be stuck on a tangent that shouldn't exist.

DamonHD

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 11:06 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi,

Clearly for the people concerned it is a disaster unless it rectifies itself very soon.

At least one of the people concerned seems completely above board to me, and either the site(s) concerned is (are) unavoidable collateral damage in some wider war G is fighting against the black-hatters, or it is a bug/GFU/bad-data-push/whatever.

(Let us not forget that all this is ultimately a result of the SPAMmers whom G has to keep outflanking, so I have *ZERO* sympathy for any of them that are subsequently hit, even on their non-SPAMmy sites if any.)

So saying (1) I haven't read the threads and (2) it wasn't on the front page so can't be important is rather circular isn't it? Possibly it isn't on the front page because someone else at WW didn't read the threads or (understandably) wrote them off as the froth and synthetic rage that appears in this forum often. But WW noticing or not DOES NOT DETERMINE if something is important or not.

I suspect that this trauma will sort itself out soon, and that certain people should be trying to keep their blood pressure under control to help conserve medical resources in this fat-and-sugar-laden festive feasting season... (Just how many boxes of biscuits did I get this Christmas?) B^>

Rgds

Damon

BigDave

WebmasterWorld Senior Member bigdave us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 11:43 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Optirex, this is the only line in the entire thread that you should pay any attention to.

If your site historically sits at the top of the serps then if one were to judge by past experience, it's very likely to come back within weeks or even a month or two.

I'll admit that I didn't read the latest doom and gloom thread. I stopped reading them about 4 years ago. They rarely provide any helpful long-term information.

You've been dinged for 6 days? So what? Even my largest, most stable site has taken occasional month long hits. I don't even bother trying to figure out what's up till it's been down a month.

If it's an income earning site, you just have to dip into your 6 months of backup cash that any sensible person would keep if they were depending on internet revenue.

Back to what Martinibuster said, those long-term sites that sit on the top of the SERPs are what I call robust sites. They do well on most of the factors in the various search engines. They will occasionally fall away if one of their weak spots is important in any particular algo, but the next time they turn a dial at the plex, the site pops right back up to the top.

If you are in it for the long term, don't sweat the short term.

[edited by: BigDave at 11:46 pm (utc) on Dec. 26, 2006]

trinorthlighting

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 12:17 am on Dec 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

I would add the new content, it might boost your rankings back up.

I would be very critical on how the pages are wrote though before you release them though. Many threads wrote here about people paying people to make pages and later find out they are not properly constructed.

Make sure meta tags are there, make sure they have title tags etc....

Piet59

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 12:25 am on Dec 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think BigDave is right: don't trust that Google will deliver visitors and just wait till they get things right again. We are also nowhere to be found at the moment (guess there was some intervention of the so-called quality guys, they have been messing around before) but that sure is no reason not to add content: content is for visitors not for Google.

And remember: don't get mad, get even. So we developped a policy: for every day our site can't be properly found on Google we redirect 1000 euro from our 2007 adwords budget to other (non Google) marketing campains. And for every time they hit the button again without a proper reason and without a proper notification, we double the amount. So this time Google is missing 2000 a day, while we diversivy our sources of traffic.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 1:59 am on Dec 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

Ouch! I must have hit a sensitive spot with a few, eh? I'll be glad to extend my apologies but I'm not too certain what I'm apologizing for. Sorry, I'm not taking any responsibility for Google's actions, those are outside of my control. ;)

I have had two people working for two months so far on new, original and relevant content for my sites. Until now they are about 600 pages into a +/-25,000 pages addition and I was very happy with their progress until 20th December.

You see, that is why I don't follow those Part I, Part II and Part III topics. Typically they provide little definitive insight as to what might be happening. Everyone has their own issues to deal with and rarely are two the same.

So, if I'm apologizing, it would be for not following those types of topics. I used to, and it is too stressful to watch the SERPs. Now I just pay attention to overall statistics and the bar graphs continually on the rise and my clients ROI doing the same. ;)

There should be no reason whatsoever for you not to add new content. Being caught up in those 50 page topics will have you chasing every whim of the algo. Is it worth it? At some point you have to stop and ask yourself, why am I doing this. The outcome at the end of the month is the same. Or, maybe it isn't. If you are constantly tweaking pages to chase the shadow of a recent algo, then you will lead a very stressful life. ;)

Now I'm wondering whether the effort is even going to be worth anything whatsoever with this crazy Xmas debacle occurring.

There is no Xmas Debacle as far as I can tell. It appears there is movement in the SERPs and it just happens to be a small group here who are being affected negatively. I hate to hear when that happens but it is all part of the process. I've found that 9 out of 10 sites (not their home pages) that drop out of the index all of sudden after being there for years, come right back shortly thereafter. And again, it appears to happen when Google is increasing the size of their index.

Now, if you've watched yourself slide from 1, 2, 3 downwards to 8 and then drop to page 2, there is something to investigate. It too is usually a side effect of the index growing or possibly a PR reiteration.

If those pages that are dropping didn't have any PR to begin with, or very little, I'll bet they are probably tagged as Supplemental right now and on their way out of the index. But, at some point, they will come back into the equation.

If it's an entire site that has gone missing (home page gone, not appearing for company name search), then you most likely have a serious issue at hand. I emphasize most likely. That typically does not happen with an established site. There are a few things that could have happened and it is all relative to what you've been doing over the past 90-120 days in regards to site changes, servers, etc. So many technical things can have a negative impact on one's indexing. If you've think you covered them all, think again. Go back and double, triple check everything. Run a DNS Report. Check your server headers. Run a Copyscape Report. Test your server? Are you on shared IP? How many others on that IP? What percentage of those are questionable? Man, there is just too much to list.

If my livelihood depended on the Internet, which it does for the most part, I'd be looking for a cause and/or causes. I sure wouldn't be worrying about adding any new content, that is a given.

Will they be spidered, won't they?

Of course they will. It may not happen as quickly as you'd like, but they will get spidered. That is the easy part. Getting them ranked is the part to be concerned with. Google will spider anything.

Will they be see in the SERPs or won't they?

At some point they should be seen in the SERPs. There is this whole group of other factors though that come beforehand. Its that "chicken and the egg" thing.

Low PR site, lots of lower level pages sitting at levels 2, 3 and 4. If internal linking is not done "just right" and if there isn't enough juice to pass downwards, it is going to take some time to funnel that PR to those pages. It doesn't happen overnight. It does if your site is at PR6 and above. Anything below that makes it a bit tougher although this may not apply to everyone. If you are at PR5 and the bulk of your competitors are also at PR5, then you can assume that your PR Cap is probably at PR6. Meaning that you won't see anything higher than that PR6 for quite some time. This is an average and not an absolute. Certain sites will obtain higher PR than others due to the nature of the beast. ;)

Will they have a penalty against them since they're too new and not considered authoritative even though I know they will be the ONLY such pages on the entire Net?

This might be going a bit too far. Why would something that Google knows nothing about yet have a penalty against it?

Even though they are the ONLY such pages, they haven't been out there long enough to establish any sort of authority. Stop chasing the algo and continue on with your content building plan. It will all come in due time. This time next year you'll be patting yourself on the back that you no longer have Googleitis and are leading a stress free life while making money in your sleep. :)

These pages are/were being created out of my love for my trade and I am personally paying for them and expected over many years to recoup this cost by the small amount of AdSense revenue they would possibly generate.

I'll hope that they are still being created.

HOWEVER if there is no chance of them ever of deriving any kind of income (from AdSense at the moment) then I may as well stop them right now.

If your only reason is to make an income immediately, then you will continue to stress out like this and think of all sorts of crazy things. Thousands of quality content pages are going to generate an income. It is a given.

Google is now acting in a similar fashion to a government when it tweaks interest rates to curb consumer spending and it is having entirely the same reaction.

I don't see that they've made any major changes with the way they handle SERPs. Not in the past 12-18 months. Mind you, I said major changes. Their technology continues to advance. They lead the way in relevancy although many would question how relevant they are. And, they are still "King of the Hill". They have some contenders and I'm one who hopes that the playing field becomes more balanced in 2007.

Personally I have no financial motive to do so therefore, like governments, Google ought to take much more seriously and responsibly the effect an algo tweak may have on investment decisions.

Oh, I'm sure they take each algo tweak very seriously, their livelihood depends on it. Collateral damage is a given with an index as HUGE as Googles. If a few hundred websites fall off the face of Google Earth, that is not going to phase them.

contentwithcontent

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 2:32 am on Dec 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

You ask if it is "worth it" to put new content on your site.

The answer is yes if your goal is to have an informative and useful site for your visitors.

If the only reason you are including more content is so that search engines rank you better, then you might be disappointed with the results of this and any other attempt to manipulate search engine results.

Pirates



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 2:53 am on Dec 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

Yes definanently continue growing your site with original content.

I would ignore serps, just continue with your site, your seeing way to much relevence on the domain name in serps and thats whats distorting things.

ann

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ann us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 3:46 am on Dec 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

I too got hit. My 10+ years old site was briefly gone in it's entirety but all the pages but one is back in the old positions.

BUT, my home page is nowhere to be found even though webmaster tools tell me it is now sitting at number 17...Bah! Dec took off like a rocket until this happened. Now my visitors and income is also down.

Xmas debacle, yes I would say so.

Ann

sandpetra

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 3:46 am on Dec 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

Merry Xmas to you too Optirex! I do'nt see anything wrong with asking you what the xmas debacle was...in fact it was the only reason I clicked on the thread...are you drinking...?:)

Merry Xmas anyway - hope things pick up!

Pirates



 
Msg#: 3199839 posted 3:55 am on Dec 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

There is no Xmas Debacle

Oh yes there is. Huge swings have been made to relevence of keyword in domain name and results have shifted massively. Lets not pretend this is a small effect it is massive. And please lets not pretend its for the benefit of the internet. Its for the benefit of brands and the big players and to wade off lawsuits that could potentially make google bankrupt.

So lets not sit here and pretend nothing happened just because the rest of the world hasn't woken up to it yet.

This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37 ( [1] 2 > >
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