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Aug 17 - and now Sept 15 changes. What happened? (part 2)
outland88

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 7:44 pm on Sep 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

<continued from http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/3085485.htm [webmasterworld.com]>

On my site which lost traffic on 9/15 I see a lot of numeric subdomain listings which go to redirects/PPC/MFA pages.<

These sites are definitely re-invading Google once again. I checked the page count for about 10 of these subdomains and it ran about a quarter million pages in Google. There were about 200 pages in Yahoo and nada in MSN. I'm seeing more people joining Adwords in my area because the spam is so bad. I better recheck those MSN stats I've got to have made a mistake.

[edited by: tedster at 12:46 am (utc) on Sep. 22, 2006]

 

randle

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 4:08 pm on Sep 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

the refresh has already started

Started for us late Friday, and still seeing the effects today. Just like on July 27th, sites removed from certain data centers for their main keywords.

Anyone else?

MLHmptn

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 4:26 pm on Sep 25, 2006 (gmt 0)


Started for us late Friday, and still seeing the effects today. Just like on July 27th, sites removed from certain data centers for their main keywords.

Anyone else?

This is exactly what I'm seeing as well. One of the site that I work with is being penalized in some way...Dunno why. Earlier in July their was talk about a filter being applied to your site if your search keywords came up in their regular positions with quotes around your keywords. That is the case with this particular site I am having issues with and only on 72.14.207.x's.

Those threads are here:

[webmasterworld.com ]
[webmasterworld.com ]
[webmasterworld.com ]

Just hoping the new infrastructure is not based on 72.14.207.x's!

[edited by: MLHmptn at 4:42 pm (utc) on Sep. 25, 2006]

Pirates



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 11:21 pm on Sep 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Scum results start to show a pattern.

All sites that I have seen promoted by scraping and hijacking results advertise on adwords with ads containing the name of there rival company. This is not comparative advertising they mislead web users by using the name of there rival in title of there adword. Then they scrape and hijack..........

Marval

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 3:05 am on Sep 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Noticing the hometown.aol.(insert country code here) spammers are getting even a bigger boost with this latest refresh - and its spread to more country codes
Also noted the dmoz expireds are gaining value again as well

Too bad Google isnt responding to spamreports anymore

AlgorithmGuy



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 10:52 am on Sep 27, 2006 (gmt 0)


AlgorythmGuy, That's all there is to tell. The only thing that I changed when the drop in traffic occurred was that I added a new affiliate link to my site. The drop in traffic happened immediately after adding the affiliate link. But I removed the link and my traffic didn't come back. It's been a month a half since I removed the link.

I have an information rich site that google says they like. I have all original content on my site. I sell my own digital and print products. Prior to this drop in traffic I had only one other affiliate link on my site. I had added it two weeks prior to the drop in traffic. That particular link didn't seem to make any impact, unless it took them two weeks to catch it. The drop didn't happen until I added the second affiliate link.

Prior to this drop of traffic I had steady traffic from google for the past 6 months.

Thanks again

<Admin Note: Rather than continue this independent thread on the topics
that are being discussed in this thread, let's move any further discussion
over to the major thread.>

[edited by: tedster at 4:45 am (utc) on Sep. 27, 2006]

cynthiap,

OK, let us see if we can assist you.

Firstly, a lot of myths abound regarding random penalties from google for links that may be questionable.

Go to a google.com page. In google's search box use the below commands

inurl:www.whatever-widgets.com
inurl:whatever-widgets.com
inurl:www.whatever-widgets
inurl:whatever-widgets

Your domain, especially your root should be top in this first command.
Look out for websites that contain identical content of your website.

---------

inanchor: Do the same searches as above.

Your domain should show at the top and any site that contains your URL. One special thing to note is if a website that uses your domain name as its keyword to point to itself. In other words, some unethical webmasters will create your URL as a keyword anchor link pointing to their website. So if your domain is www.whatever-widgets.com an unethical competitor may point to his website with an anchor link of your domain.

Then, again in google's search box www.yoursite.com

Then, again in google's search box yoursite.com

Report back on your findings and we can then look at your hosting services.

In the mean time, don't make guesses, assumptions or changes. We are starting from base ZERO to help you. If we find the culprit, we can zap it.
.

cynthiap

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 4:05 am on Sep 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Okay AlgorythmGuy

Thank you. Well here is what I've found

My site is first for this form
www.whateverwidgets.com

My site isn't first for this form.
whateverwidgets.com
It is #7 but it shows up as www.whateverwidgets.com not whateverwidgets.com

This is first
www.example.com/example/redirect.asp?linkid=28544

This is second
www.example2.com/sites/whateverwidgets.com
(This one has my url.com at the end of its url)

My site isn't first in this form
www.whateverwidgets

This is first
www.example.com/example/redirect.asp?linkid=28544
I'm #6

My site is first in this form
whateverwidgets
This site with my url in it again is #3
www.example2.com/sites/whateverwidgets.com

The site that has my url in it's url doesn't have my content on their site.

But I do have lots of sites that use my content. Supposedly one of the best ways to market and get incoming links was to write a bunch of articles and put them on your website and make them avaialble for other people to use and to submit them to article banks. So my content is used all over the place. But this has been going on for a long time and never impacted my traffic before. In the last 6 months that I received good traffic from google all those articles were out there then as well.

[edited by: tedster at 6:29 am (utc) on Sep. 28, 2006]
[edit reason] use example.com [/edit]

Jane_Doe

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jane_doe us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 4:24 am on Sep 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Supposedly one of the best ways to market and get incoming links was to write a bunch of articles and put them on your website and make them avaialble for other people to use and to submit them to article banks. So my content is used all over the place.

It is usually safer to write unique articles for distribution so your site doesn't seem like it is just a collection of articles from article directories.

tedster

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tedster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 6:35 am on Sep 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

The Forum Charter [webmasterworld.com] does not allow individual site reviews, and we aren't going to get into specific domains, etc.

So how can we fold this information back into the discussion -- what are the changes we saw on Aug 17 and Sep 15? Is there really an increase in scraping and hijacking in the SERPs now, compared to a few months back?

petehall

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 9:14 am on Sep 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Results in the UK looking really nasty on some searches...

Is something going down?

followgreg

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 11:27 am on Sep 28, 2006 (gmt 0)


Petehall>> not only in the UK apparently - it's spammy for the least, low quality at best.
But Im not in GG shoes so I can't see the big pictures with my set of test queries, it might be better overall.
Still I would have a hard time finding where the improvement is.
I currently can't find what I am looking for, like on MSN back a while ago (and still now sometimes).

I am putting aside the webmaster point of view, from the user prospective I am quite frustrated :) If GG doesn't work ...where am I going to find what I'm looking for?

lmo4103

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 1:15 pm on Sep 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

There is no spoon - kid in matrix

The site has a 20,000 product catalog with a top-level index A, B, ... ,Z

May - Site urls were redesigned and site went 99% supplemental.
(pre redesign url and post redesign url still retuning "200 OK" even today)

Aug - Fixed www & no-www domain.

site: was returning widely varying numbers day to day, ranging from 10,000 to 110,000 results.

Sept 25 to present - site: returns consistent number close to 20,000

Through Sept 27, only products starting with "Z" were non-supplemental.
inurl: www.example.com showed 92 results.
Only a few pages crawled per visit.

Sept 28 - products starting with "Y" popped out of supplemental and joined "Z" in non-supplemental.
inurl: www.example.com showing 135 results.

If it is bending, and they are tricking back in reverse order, a few at a time, then ... Yea!

theBear

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 1:17 pm on Sep 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

tedster,

Here it is in a nutshell without any domain names.

Sites (many thousands of them) are set up to allow others to be able to send "signals" of poor quality while making use of a site's content. You can give this any name you want.

Setting aside that this is a site setup issue, one that most content folk haven't a clue about and it appears that most of the hosting services know even less about.

Duplicate content in all of its many forms is the issue, and it is being exploited.

WebmasterWorld has hosted thread after thread on this issue, and as a "new" site encounters it for the first time a new thread gets started.

Some of the solutions seem to invoke (frequently advocating one of several ways to fix the issue) arguments without laying out a reference point, for most folks clear examples help, it is very hard for most non techs to understand the extreme degree of flexibilty that exists and that corraling that flexibilty is actually a solution for a problem that really doesn't exist.

Then we get to the naming of things, is it a canonical issue or a duplicate content issue or a www/non-www issue.

I think the hilanderbuns have it all summed up at angry aliens.

cynthiap

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 4:15 pm on Sep 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Wow JaneDoe, that really presents a problem and I wonder why all the marketing gurus don't know this.

I've taken numerous teleseminars over the last couple years for online marketing and everyone says the best way to get traffic and backlinks is to do this. No one ever said it should be different content.

They all say to write an article and optimize it for your preferred keyword and then put the article on your website and then take the same article and submit it to as many places as you can.

Half of my site is available for syndication and is used a lot. There's no way to undo this.

Jane_Doe

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jane_doe us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 4:46 pm on Sep 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've taken numerous teleseminars over the last couple years for online marketing and everyone says the best way to get traffic and backlinks is to do this.

Remember the old saying, "Those who can't do, teach."

You can probably only undo it at this point by rewriting the articles on your site. I'm not saying that is definitely your problem, but it is something to consider. You may have just hit a threshold where too many of your articles were flagged as duplicate content.

Jane_Doe

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jane_doe us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 5:38 pm on Sep 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Just to clarify, sorry for the flippant response in my earlier post. I did not mean to offend teachers in general. It is just that I think you can learn more tips here and other webmaster forums from people who work on web sites for a living than you can in many of the generic web marketing classes.

Most of the senior people here whose advice I like to follow have been recommending distributing unique articles for a long time.

[edited by: Jane_Doe at 5:39 pm (utc) on Sep. 28, 2006]

AlgorithmGuy



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 11:18 am on Sep 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've taken numerous teleseminars over the last couple years for online marketing and everyone says the best way to get traffic and backlinks is to do this. No one ever said it should be different content.

They all say to write an article and optimize it for your preferred keyword and then put the article on your website and then take the same article and submit it to as many places as you can.

Cynthiap,

There are many negative and destructive forces that abound in quasi seminars and telesales regarding the internet and how it should be used.

"The monoculture of a crop, produces the monoculture of its pest"

Unqualified opportunists prey on peoples hopes and expectations.

I know of people in Europe who are making a fat living out of giving useless and detrimental advice. And there are thousands of these types of opportunists that have cashed in big-time as a direct result of google monopolizing the internet.

Concentrating search results to a single funnel, like google has done where 85% of world search is through google alone, the need to be visible on the interned by default has risen exponentially. This is entirely due to google's meteoric rise to dominate the internet and to yield such power as to dictate what the internet should be according to its clandestine methods to make money.

This funneling of the search results to just a single search engine has meant that, the even distribution of possibilities of being visible on the internet has all but been removed.

This in turn has fostered a multitude of con artists that are feasting on the worries and detrimental issues faced by website owners.

Google in turn makes more money per day than some countries entire income by milking surfing habits of end users.

I have personally seen an individual, looking to purchase a $10 dollar item, to click google's pay per click adds form one site to another until he finally found what he was looking for and then began to compare prices, again clicking away at advertisers pay per clicks. He had cost advertisers about $50 dollars to purchase a $10 dollar item. This is how google makes vast fortunes, subliminal exploitation of surfing habits. In my estimation nearly 40% of its income. Hundreds of thousands of dollars a day if not more.

When google sneezes, the internet is splattered with its mucus. As it forages away, trampling on existing websites, it munches away at new websites and digests them in its sandbox. The footprints and devastation the goliath leaves behind becomes barren land.

The restricted funnel created by google forces website owners to go pay per click and highest bidder wins. In turn, being visible in highest bidder exposes the advertiser to irrelevant clicking.

Invariably, a business based website is made or broken by google in its indiscriminate wake.

Opportunists claiming to know how to rank in google are feasting on peoples hopes in much the same way.

Google in turn is not answerable to any other than to its stock holders.

This is not a good recipe to base a global internet on.

.

[edited by: AlgorithmGuy at 11:35 am (utc) on Sep. 29, 2006]

abraham

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 11:46 am on Sep 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

AlgorithmGuy,

Obviously some people are able to take advantage of the situation.
They don't spend any money on adwords, don't have any real contents, backlinks etc. and still sitting on top of the search results.

mt1955

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 12:02 pm on Sep 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

A key phrase for a site I watch dropped in the results from #4 to #5.

The link from the new #4 result leads to a 404 page that does not include the keyword at all, nor does G's cache of it.

My first impression was that there is some new element of randomness about the results but could it mean that some sites are creating links around the keyword using an URL that just ends up at the 404 result? (like the 'miserable failure' trick)

Big G, here's a suggestion for you. Follow the link, analyze the results and try to determine if there is actually any content there matching what is being searched for. ;)

Ducki

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 12:38 pm on Sep 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi Everyone,

(background): On August 17th hundreds of our SERP's went from page one to 900+. This happened to us last year (dupe domain I think that time) and after a couple months (and a lot of tinkering) we came back.

After reading everything I can find, NOBODY has the answer as to what happend nor how to fix it. So last night a thought hit me, for our main term we were ranked #951 so why not look at who else had a similar site who was ranked after us. After reviewing these sites, a pattern became obvious. Each of the sites had a ton of links on the home page and a lot of keyword stuffing.

So last night I spend about six hours undoing what I've done over the last 11 years which is to make our site more relevant (keyword wise). I don't believe for an instant I've been guilty of keyword stuffing but if Google believes it based on some algo then it's time to change my thinking.

Today many of my listings are back. Not all and certainly not as highly ranked as they were but #6 isn't too bad when it was a #2 to start with and a #951 when Google penalized me.

Here's the weird thing though. According to my stats, Google hasn't come by the site in two days -- at all and that's almost unheard of on my site. Google comes by every day!

I checked the cache and the pages which are ranking have the old data. I checked multiple data centers and the results are consistent.

The only other thing I've done is three days ago I cut off robot access (via robots.txt) to our https site where people sign up. There was some similar content here as it presented the clients listings for renewal the same as it does on the main site but it's pretty different. Google hasn't removed that site from the index though.

I'll keep you all posted as to what happens. I'm pleased to see the new results but I'm cautious as to whether this is an update or if they someone unpenalized some of my content.

Ducki

AlgorithmGuy



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 12:49 pm on Sep 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

AlgorithmGuy,
Obviously some people are able to take advantage of the situation.
They don't spend any money on adwords, don't have any real contents, backlinks etc. and still sitting on top of the search results.

abraham,

Yes,

This crazy situation fosters webmasters like you and I. We get to learn tricks and loopholes to survive. And some of us rool the roost in keywords.

It is a case of dog eat dog. It is not a case of the dog in the fight. It is the fight in the dog.

night707

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 1:41 pm on Sep 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

... still sitting on top of the search results ...

Some websites now sit on Google top even with 2 or 3 urls for their domain however they offer very little to nothing in comparison to real content providers.

tedster

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tedster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3092370 posted 5:41 pm on Sep 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Looks like we're done discussing this thread's topic. See you all in other places!

This 82 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 82 ( 1 2 [3]
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