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This 111 message thread spans 4 pages: < < 111 ( 1 2 [3] 4 > >     
Jun 27, Aug 17 -- What's happening (part 2)?
Pages vanishing and reappearing -- even whole sites

 9:24 am on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

< continued from [webmasterworld.com...] >

OK, so after feeling really good to get our site back in order after the 27th of June "data refresh" I come back from holiday and find its all gone Pete Tong again.


Consequently, the home page is not showing in the serps. Again. Grrrrr....

Another data refresh required please Google. You're killing me.

[edited by: tedster at 6:17 am (utc) on Aug. 30, 2006]



 12:10 am on Sep 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

A note for people checking different Google IP addresses. See this thread for more recent information: [webmasterworld.com...]

[edited by: tedster at 6:49 pm (utc) on Sep. 8, 2006]


 12:07 pm on Sep 9, 2006 (gmt 0)



When I type in "www.domain.com" into google my webpage shows up as result #31 on page 4! Should be #1 obviously but isn't since the April, June, July, August "refresh" messes.

Anyone else have this?

Ofcourse there are over 9,000 results when I type in "www.domain.com" and 90% of them are scrappers and spam.



Has anyone recovered from any of the April, June, July, August "refreshes"?


[edited by: AustrianOak at 12:33 pm (utc) on Sep. 9, 2006]


 2:41 am on Sep 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Recovered for a while but now a search for mysite keyword ranks a bunch of scrapers, MFAs and supplimentals above my site. Traffic is still down 80% - 90% and shows no signs of improving.


 11:13 am on Sep 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

It's like I'm looking at four different indexes (or so)...

I have two computers on the same network.
Computer 1: ping www.google.com =
Computer 2: ping www.google.com =

These IP's change daily it seems. No idea why Google would be giving me two different IP's when both computers are in the same location.

Anyway, right now I'm looking at the same results I've been looking at for months (or nearly identical) with one exception -- my site is missing.

Yesterday I was looking at what appeared to be a new ranking order on one computer and a more recent one following August 17th but different than what I'm looking at here and I've seen others.

Something is funky. Is it possible Google is testing which will have the best results and trying to decide between them? Regardless, in most indexes our site is 900+ for a term we generally rank #8 on and it's our biggest traffic term (despite not being our best).

We've changed everything and have zero idea of why there's a penality. We hadn't broken the rules to start with and though I've redued keyword density, we're still screwed.



 11:38 am on Sep 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

On Mcdar I notice what apear to be broadly speaking two resiult sets.

1)Using the title from my site about half of the dcs
my site top as has been the case form the last six years for my main kw


2)a secondset of results that use the ODP description and have my site as no2 for the same keys words so possibly using a slightly different algo.

These two data sets seem to be stable at the moment and have been for about a week now.

Additional comment;
Results have taken a series of nose dives over the summer with the mid August completlty taking one of my sites out. This site has history with cannonicals etc so make what you will of that. Anyway despite a year of efforts its is now history..thanks google.


 11:47 am on Sep 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

AustrianOak wrote:

Has anyone recovered from any of the April, June, July, August "refreshes"?

I have made myself a solemn promise not to do, say, or think anything regarding the current state of my site vis a vis Google, until the End Of Summer.

12 more days and counting.


 11:55 am on Sep 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Google is simply unpredictable.

It add pages to index, removes the same day and then add next day.

Right now i have only homepage in index.

When will this end? Or it ever will?

And one more thing, when can be the next toolbar PR update expected?


 12:22 pm on Sep 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

Has anyone recovered from any of the April, June, July, August "refreshes"?
All our sites but one were hit badly on 27 June, but recovered to their original positions on 17 Aug. I hope they stay this way. We lost thousands of dollars during that fiasco (and I'm sure Google lost millions!)

 2:11 pm on Sep 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

donelson, first of all congrats!

Secondly I feel your pain, losing thousands of dollars myself over the summer and to this day.. no recovery as of yet.

What if any changes did you make or was it a google glitch that corrected itself?



 4:04 pm on Sep 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

My large, but local site was hit on June 27th 2006 and no sign of proper recovery yet. All of supplementals have been dissolved away and using sitemaps I have got rid of any dead pages. I am hoping this is one of Google's 3 month penalties and fingers crossed for any positive changes come September 27th (Just before my summer holidays - so I'll need some good news).

All the Best

Col :-)


 4:07 pm on Sep 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

>> It's like I'm looking at four different indexes (or so)... <<

That's because there are at least 4 different vesions of their index spread across their many datacentres right now.

If you look at gfe-gv and then at gfe-eh you will see big differences. The data at gfe-eh has had a big change made to supplemental results a few weeks ago. That change is now also on many other datacentres, but is still far from being on all.

See also: [webmasterworld.com...]


 5:54 pm on Sep 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've just realised that the home page is top of the results when I do a site:www.domain.com search, except for a bunch of supplemental results.

Why would I have the supplemental results showing first?


 3:09 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

Has anyone recovered from any of the June, July, August "refreshes"?

No recovery at all. Instead some fairly meaningless domain has not been hit whilst a 6 years old quality domain with loads of relevant quality content for many keywords is still receiving ZERO Google traffic.


 7:15 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

Has anyone recovered from any of the June, July, August "refreshes"?

For a few key phrases my site has recovered. For the vast majority of phrases including the most important ones it has not recovered. I have seen an improvement in titles and descriptions being used (stopped using legacy titles and reverted back to current titles).


 7:48 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've recovered about 30% I'd say. I'm not great at following my stats, but after losing all my traffic on Aug 17th again, I do seem to be seeing a decen uptick starting last Friday, Sept 8th.

It's not huge, but much better than I experienced the rest of the month.


 8:01 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

We haven't bounced back fully yet either, but google bot is visiting every day so hopefully it will finish up getting rid of the old supps (from 8/2005 to 3/2006) and get some fresh data to munch on.

Man I wish there was a way to find only the supplimentals.... if anyone knows how please let me in on the secret. It would certainly help me find which parts of our site need work.


 8:09 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

This search:

site:www.domain.com -inurl:www

will find most of them.


 9:05 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

Our problem is that we show 150k + either way I search..

Ohh... what a great addition to sitemaps!


 11:13 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

I know Matt said Summe is a good time for Google to try new algos, but I am loosing hope of coming back after Summer ends. Matt just posted on his blog.

"there may still be some movement going on till Sept. 30th or so, but I wouldn’t expect it to be a ton of movement. "

So I guess that is it, no big changes! We are not coming back to before Jun 27, very sad! :o(


 11:17 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

so what new filters do you think they have applied? (re: aug17)


 11:19 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

I would say they didnt apply any filters they removed some - indications are that the expired Dmoz filter is gone, the script-generated cloaked page filter is gone, and the .edu and hometown aol filters have been removed


 11:43 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

This search:
site:www.domain.com -inurl:www
will find most of them.

You mean that search finds the supplementals, right? Or did I misunderstand.

Anyhow, I tried it and it brought up 2 pages labeled as supplemental from my site. So apparently I'm doing ok there, hopefully.

But, one of the pages was kind of a surprize, because it's a fairly heavily trafficked page at the moment (it's time sensitive).

So I hop back to google and do a keyword search for the page, and there it is at #5 or so, and NOT labeled as supplemental.

Apparently supplementals are not always suppplementals?

The one difference I did notice was that in the site: search the G cache showed the page at half the K size it showed in the cache for the page when it came up in the keyword search, and both cache pages showed the same date, 9-6-2006.


 11:45 pm on Sep 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

ltedesco, I hope this is NOT the case. How can they not fix this mess?

I am still crossing my fingers that the end of the summer "big final change" will fix the mess from April, June, July and August.

Seems unreal at times.

[edited by: AustrianOak at 11:47 pm (utc) on Sep. 11, 2006]


 12:34 am on Sep 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

Interesting on the supplemental search -- thanks for the help.

I ran the test and found that I have 444 supplemental results (out of over 100,000 pages).

These are mostly all 302 pages.

Of these 444, about half of them are printable version pages which last year we had told Googlebot not to index (via robots.txt). After the recent changes in the algo, I figured I'd reopen them (trying anything here).

The other half are pages which were for paid listings which are now expired. We redirect them to another page until they're paid again. I'm thinking this probably isn't the best idea. However, the alternative is duplicate pages on the site which I'm also thinking is a bad idea so I'll have to solve that puzzle.

Anyway, our listings are still no where to be found and I have no idea why. There's some kind of penalty being applied to our site but I have no idea what it is nor how to fix it. Frankly, I think it sucks that Google can't be more open about their penalties so that legit webmasters can fix them.



 2:24 am on Sep 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

I hope you are right, and I am crossing my fingers with you. Let me know if your site come back. I will do the same. Good Luck!


 3:32 am on Sep 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

How can they not fix this mess?

Well, Google tends to roll back and forth.. the sites will possibly come back in a few days/weeks.

This kind of junk has been going on for a long time with the mighty G...


 3:42 am on Sep 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

I would say they didnt apply any filters they removed some - indications are that the expired Dmoz filter is gone, the script-generated cloaked page filter is gone, and the .edu and hometown aol filters have been removed

Could you please clue us into what each of these filters were about.


 3:53 am on Sep 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

I just tried the supplemental search and came up with only 6 pages that really are supplemental. I guess all I can do now is to ignore them. Otherwise, except for all of the traffic I've lost since January when my main site got hit, things are finally looking good.

Now to just recover that traffic...


 4:06 am on Sep 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

I usually hold Google in high esteem, but since they changed the way they crawl lower PR sites, they have become pathetic in indexing new unique content pages.

MSNbot chews them up like there is no tomorrow, and they show up after a few days.

With Google, it takes a perfectly unique page of content, with unique title, etc, and makes it supplemental. Then, they show up as non supplemental for a few days, and then go back to supplemental.

Google in my opinion has really choked their own chicken this time. They used to be the best at finding stuff, now their Googlebot is getting trounced by MSNbot by a mile. To bad more people don't use MSN.

In all honestly, lately none of the 3 big search engines seem to be putting out any better results than the other. It's just more people use Google now.


 5:10 am on Sep 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

Yeah MSN may be able to take new pages much more quickly to show in search but to me it seems everytime MSN does that good sites get hit in a bad way. MSN search is like a current RSS feed sifting through daily paper threaders for current results.

At least Google is trying to analize what is new. I really don't believe anyone here uses any other search engine besides Google as the first choice when looking for stuff not including your own sites.


 5:17 am on Sep 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Google hangs on to redirected URLs for a year after the redirect is put in place."

Interesting. We started with a domain 11 years ago and built a lot of content on it for our clients. As domains began to be used more frequently for individual sites, our clients migrated from www.OldDomain/client to their own domains. After they moved their hosting to other clients we eventually redirected (301) these old client sites back to a new domain of ours where we built all our new content.

In example, we had one client with a site at something like:

Today for searches on "badger golf course" (it's actually not badger so don't bother trying that ;-) our site comes up in the top three even though we have zero to do with either bader or golf. Amazing but true.

The point here is that I noticed when I do link:www.NewDomain.com none of the 301 redirected old pages show up as links AND THEY USED TO. I still get the benefit of the keywords -- I just don't get to see the linked pages.

So, someone tell me why a pages which has been gone for more than five years still helps me with SEO and what, if anything, it means that the links no longer show up. Oh, amazingly, www.OldDomain.com with a PR of 6 has a link on it to www.NewDomain.com but it doesn't show up using the link:www.NewDomain.com syntax either. Another strange one!

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