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17 Aug - Supplemental again
Northstar

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 1:29 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

My site went back to being all supplemental again just like during the June 27 to July 27th mess. My traffic also dropped back down. Is anyone else having this problem again?

 

Halfdeck

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 7:47 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

But the point is, why is it in the supps in the first place? That's the $million question. At the end of the day, it's unique content that's relevant to potential searches.

I'm going through some of my supplementals right now and asking myself the same question.

- Title/meta descriptions .. unique and descriptive
- Unique URLS .. bogus URLs blocked, entire site checked using Xenu
- No www/non-www issues, though I do have a subdomain.xyz.com vs. www.xyz.com/subfolder/ problem.
- Snippet searches reveal no dupes (though long tail searches wrapped in quotes using text off supplemental pages seem to pull up zero results)
- meaty unique content pages, 300+ unlinked text I wrote
- content positioned in source above navigation
- less than 30 outgoing links on a particular page I'm looking at
- pages all validate the last I checked.

What else?

Considering Google has been more picky about indexing pages, I wonder if the supplemental caches were refreshed but Google didn't then evaluate them for inclusion into the main index? In other words, before BD, pages would first appear on the main index then slip into the supps eventually. Supplemental Googlebot periodically re-evaluated those pages and some of them returned to the main index.

So Google refreshed its entire supplemental index, but post BD I see at least two major hurdles to jump over to get back into the main index: 1) no supplemental issues (i.e. identical meta tags, urls resolving to the same content, etc) 2) TrustRank/PageRank.

In other words, a perfectly structured page with original content can be stuck in the supplemental index just because the domain lacks juice.

/speculation

At this point I'm *this close* to generating a few non-commerical spam sites to get a better feel for avoiding the supplemental index.

wackybrit

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 7:49 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

My site has consistently had great rankings for the last few years. Just today it's all gone to pieces. Traffic has totally crashed (from Google) by about 90%. It still ranks, but far lower. Still got PR 7 (for now) and 2500 backlinks showing in Google. It's a .co.uk domain. I've never had the flip-flop.. just one major crash today.

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 9:28 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Oh. One other link in the chain that I forgot to mention is where a site links back to /index.html from every page, but Google chooses to list www.domain.com/ as the root.

So, the PageRank rests with the URL that is being filtered out as the duplicate. Fix that by always linking to http://www.domain.com/ from within the site.

Within weeks the root index page will gain PR, and that PR will spread to lower pages and help a bit with some types of site spidering issues too.

AustrianOak

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 11:44 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

"My site has consistently had great rankings for the last few years. Just today it's all gone to pieces. Traffic has totally crashed (from Google) by about 90%. It still ranks, but far lower. Still got PR 7 (for now) and 2500 backlinks showing in Google. It's a .co.uk domain. I've never had the flip-flop.. just one major crash today."

I hear ya.. many of us are in this predicament. But wait.. don't worry it's for the "best" as I am sure google knows what they are doing. LOL

Sit tight and watch the last 10% slip away like mine :)

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 11:58 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Look to [gfe-eh.google.com ] for the latest tweaks. Other datacentres are doing all sorts of other things.

Whatever happens over there (gfe-eh) is likely to be the basis for what goes live across the board in the next month or so...

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 2:01 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Looks like you can identify a domain with troubles by this search:

site:example.com -wwww

That's wwww not www.

Supplementals appear above the index page and all other results.

AustrianOak

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 2:48 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

If this is true then 99% of my pages have gone supplemental.

wanderingmind

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 5:42 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Steveb, what's wwww?

And I have 90 % pages as supplemental too, with -wwww!

wanderingmind

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 5:50 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Matt Cutts says ---

"...this is the same data refresh from June 27th and July 27th, just being refreshed again. Weve been doing it for ~1.5 years at this point, and Id continue to expect that well just keep refreshing the data to that algorithm every several weeks or so."

Now how do we go about figuring out what is in our site (or Google's data) that leads to such huge ups and downs with a refresh...

icedowl

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 5:56 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Looks like you can identify a domain with troubles by this search:
site:example.com -wwww

Okay, but how can you determine exactly what the troubles are?

As far my sites are concerned, Google may as well not even exist. None of the site:example.com varieties mentioned in this thread bring up any results that I'd consider to be acceptable. The results at the [gfe-eh.google.com...] version are just horrible.

skibum

WebmasterWorld Administrator skibum us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 6:02 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Look to [gfe-eh.google.com...] for the latest tweaks. Other datacentres are doing all sorts of other things.
Whatever happens over there (gfe-eh) is likely to be the basis for what goes live across the board in the next month or so...

Gosh I hope that doesn't stick. Doesn't look good right now.

indias next no1

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 6:59 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

i am also affected . eventhough my site contain quality content, now i am getting bad quality content sites with a high ranking in SERPs.

worried and the only thing i can do is to simply sit down and watch the progress. Is this is right? or i have to do something to get back my position. Any advice?

regards

maurizio63

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 7:33 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Matt Cutts says, Matt Cutts says ... uff...
[google.com...]

maurizio63

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 7:44 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

[google.com...]

www.mattcutts.com/blog/ - 36k - Supplemental Result
cached: 14 Aug 2005 21:25:46 GMT.

Halfdeck

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 8:23 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

That's because he's creating cannonicals on purpose :) mattcutts.com/blog/ is in the main index. www version is supplemental.

mbucks

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 9:07 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Matt Cutts was right all along; just some of the Google-speak was too cryptic to understand what the long term implications of some things really are; and I can see that there are certain types of spam that these actions can severely cripple; as well as legitimate sites where the owner does not take enough care with their site architecture, or cannot interpret the symptoms of what is going wrong.

I'm now sure you're right and this is where google needs to have a re-think. The owners of businesses with good, honest websites like ours seem to have little chance conforming to google's ever-evolving requirements.

The people that will have time, resources and eventual rewards when they
take enough care
will be specialists and spammers.

colin_h



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 9:24 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I agree with Mbucks. It's all well and good saying we're getting rid of spam (although I don't believe they are and can prove it, but I'm not about to get a load of good friends into trouble), but if it just means that the only sites that can get onto Google are the professionally built one - well, it's going to get very boring, very quickly.

It's just like the problems we're encountering all around the world today ... deal with one type of situation and you end up hurting a lot of innocent by-standers. Google used to have the reputation of seeing and nurturing the bigger picture, I think the game has got too big ... even for them.

Spammers Win .... Game Over ;-)

Cheers

Col

jetteroheller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jetteroheller us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 9:32 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

The pattern of my infected domains:

All subdomains from me

a,b,c,l,n,p,r,w,www

Good from June 27 to July 26

c,p,r

Good from July 26 to August 16

l,r,www

Now since 17 July

r

night707

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 9:34 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

All important entry pages of a large quality content site are supplemental and traffic is down to zero since Aug 17 just like after June 27. Almost 1000 unimportant urls are not supplemental.

dawlish

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 9:35 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Very strange. One site which has been online since 2000 has been hit again. Made a recovery late July following the drop at the end of June and has now dropped off again. Home page has slipped a page or two for a number of terms and a significant number of the news items have gone supplemental.

Site is an specific industry news sites, not commercial at all. No banners, no adsense or advertising of any kind. Not sure why a data refresh has this effect. I wonder if the next data refresh will see it return again?

night707

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 9:40 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

dawlish

do you use google sitemap, tracking and the no index tag?

dawlish

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 9:58 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

night707,

No google sitemap, tracking or index tag.

Just a robots.txt file to exclude access to cgi-bin.

Northstar

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 12:04 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

The worst thing about this is there seems to be nothing you can do to fix whatever is happening. When my traffic went down on June 27th I made no changes before that. When my traffic came back up on July 27th I made no changes. Now it is back down on Aug. 17th and no changes were made. My site was stable for years now in the last couple months it is on a roller coaster and I can't figure out why.

night707

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 12:21 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Nortstar

exactly the same with my site. How do treat outbound links in general?

diddlydazz

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 12:47 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Google really need to sort things out

this is getting a little beyond the joke

dazz

Northstar

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 1:47 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

night707:

I run a directory/search engine site. I get thousands of inbound hits from reciprocal links per day. My sites is pretty popular but still half of our traffic comes from Google. That said, with Google controlling the 3/4 of the search market it is kind of hard not to rely on Google a lot for traffic these days.

night707

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 2:19 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Northstar

do you know, if also sites without any link exchanges have gotten cut off from Google traffic by this June 27, July 27, August 17 rollercoaster. Are you selling outbound links?

Northstar

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 2:46 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

night707:

No I don't sell outbound links. I don't think this has anything to do with sites doing reciprocal links. I have friends that run similar sites as mine and they didn't get hit on any of these dates. So far I don't think anyone has come up with a reason why this is happening.

JoeSinkwitz

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 2:47 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I certainly noticed movement on June 17th (lasted 3 days for me in the abyss before returning), read the threads on June 27th without it affecting me, was in the abyss again on July 27th (for almost a week), and now this time just moved from #1 to #13 with a supplmental now listed as the first result on a site: command.

Aside from simply moving down versus dropping completely (was solid for a few years before June), it looks like the allinanchor reporting is now either discounting more of my links or is appreciably counting blog links for a few of my competitors whereas I didn't see any big changes on the last data refreshes.

We've all watched the MC video and read every thread on here when it comes to data refreshes, but I think we're still missing something. What is it that changes during that push time that wreaks such havoc?

Cygnus

Bewenched

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 4:51 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Ok .. so I go over to <an online tool> to run querys on cache date vs pages in the index.

What I found was the datacenters that show cache date of aug 11 have the most pages and the datacenters that show cache date of aug 16 have the least pages. At least for us. The swing in total pages is over 100,000 pages between the two cache dates and no major changes were made to our site.

I wonder when the next PR update will be.

[edited by: tedster at 6:06 pm (utc) on Aug. 18, 2006]

Northstar

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3049885 posted 12:03 pm on Aug 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

During the June 27th to July 27 my traffic dropped 90%. This time Aug. 17th my traffic dropped 70%. The strange thing is between the June and July disaster My domain was supplemental on every Google data center. This time I'm all supplemental on half of the data centers. The other half at least show five correct pages (index and so on) at the top then all supplemental.

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