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Google pays just 6 M in corporate tax in UK in 2011
Around 10%, or more of G's annual profit is made in UK
Leosghost




msg:4484424
 10:10 pm on Aug 13, 2012 (gmt 0)

John Mann, an MP and member of the Treasury Select Committee, suggested the advertising giant should explain itself for its "entirely improper and immoral" behaviour.

"This is a company avoiding its obligations and we are letting them get away with doing it,"


Google UK does a tax tap-dance to shuffle its money from place to place and avoid heavy duties. The Blighty unit is employed as an agent of Google Ireland, shunting its money over there, which in turn pays its money on to the Bermudan branch of the internet giant, leaving the bulk of earnings in a tax haven.


[theregister.co.uk...]

 

buckworks




msg:4484432
 10:56 pm on Aug 13, 2012 (gmt 0)

Here's a different article on the same topic with less inflammatory wording.

[independent.co.uk...]

Google Ireland then pays much of the money it makes to the internet giant’s Bermudan firm as a licensing fee, ensuring that a large portion of its turnover ends up in the tax haven. The process is entirely legal.


Emphasis added by me.

Whoever is upset about this should work to change the laws that apply.

Leosghost




msg:4484434
 11:12 pm on Aug 13, 2012 (gmt 0)

Legal yes, but is avoiding tax by using legal loopholes that one has pai^^^^^^lobbied along with other mega corps to be made into law..."good" or "evil" ?

Whoever is upset about this should work to change the laws that apply.


Google has "access" to the lawmakers in the UK, that I as a company owner and director who pays taxes in the UK via one of my companies, do not have..nor do tens of thousands of other UK registered company owners, nor tens of millions of UK tax payers...

[telegraph.co.uk...]

From the telegraph article ..
The Government is particularly close to Google, the California-based internet giant. David Cameron’s recently departed policy guru, Steve Hilton, is married to Rachel Whetstone, its global head of communications and public policy. When in London, Google’s most senior executives have the red-carpet rolled out. The Chancellor has hosted private dinners in Number 11. “Because Google is young and fashionable, they forget that it is just a big company that wants things, like any other,” says one MP.


I would suggest also reading the comments on the telegraph article..re "lobbyists"..

buckworks




msg:4484448
 12:53 am on Aug 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

Yes, they have access to lawmakers that you don't have, but that doesn't mean you have zero access.

Pick a relevant government official and write a lucid letter to make your opinions known. Then persuade others to do the same.

We "little folk" have more power than we sometimes think, but we have to use it.

Leosghost




msg:4484450
 1:10 am on Aug 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

Pick a relevant government official and write a lucid letter to make your opinions known. Then persuade others to do the same.


Been there..done that..when I lived in the UK..many years ago..result..zilch ..

Letters..unless they all have a banknote attached and are all delivered by the same hand at the same time, and there are a few hundred thousand such banknotes in that delivery, with just one senders name on the packet..

They will be ignored..in favor of those brib^^^^^lobbyists who pass large amounts of money or offers of directorships out on the golf course at the weekend, or on yachts moored in the med, far from prying eyes..

Such is the real world..

However, you are welcome to your dreams :)

[edited by: Leosghost at 1:12 am (utc) on Aug 14, 2012]

matrix_jan




msg:4484454
 1:12 am on Aug 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

Nothing to be wondered/worried/surprised about. If an average publisher opens an account in another person's name outside of the US in order to avoid taxes, then imagine what a giant company will do to avoid paying more. As one tycoon once said - "Laws are made for smart people to find loopholes in them."

Nearly every giant company pays less than 10%. This will never change because those who are in power to change it are being payed(in donations or whatever you want to call them) to keep the law on giants' side.

Leosghost




msg:4484457
 1:15 am on Aug 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

As one tycoon once said - "Laws are made for smart people to find loopholes in them."

What would have been a more accurate observation would have been..

Loopholes are made in laws, by smart politicians, for rich people..who will thank them, sometimes in advance..

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:4484517
 6:46 am on Aug 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

Yes, they have access to lawmakers that you don't have, but that doesn't mean you have zero access.

Pick a relevant government official and write a lucid letter to make your opinions known. Then persuade others to do the same.

We "little folk" have more power than we sometimes think, but we have to use it.
There's a petition here ... https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/google-tax-dodge-petition with over 40,000 signatures so far.

Quote Leosghost:
However, you are welcome to your dreams happy!

These may not be just dreams on this occasion. We have an MP in parliament making noises about this and if he keeps it up the public will pick up on it. With all the recent corporate and bank scandals there is a lower level of tolerance to this in the UK right now.
John Mann, an MP and member of the Treasury Select Committee, suggested the advertising giant should explain itself for its "entirely improper and immoral" behaviour.

buckworks




msg:4484637
 1:53 pm on Aug 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

Petitions are a start, but keep in mind that real, physical letters pack more punch with the people who receive them.

johnhh




msg:4484798
 8:37 pm on Aug 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

There is a Catch 22 to this. They cannot bring the money back into the USA without paying US corporation tax. However they can use the cash to buy non-USA businesses.

The tax rate in the USA is higher than the UK.

Same for Apple and Amazon.

Latest I heard ... deal talks with IRS. But yes Mr Senator of course we will invest in your state if you ....

If they do go in front of the Treasury Committee it won't be an easy ride. Googles ace of course is .. well we move elsewhere.
lightbulb gone in office - managed not to spill second drink of the day !

johnhh




msg:4484803
 8:39 pm on Aug 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

@buckworks is right Never do a petition .. creating a pile of paper is better.

buckworks




msg:4484816
 9:14 pm on Aug 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

I didn't say to never do a petition.

What I'm saying is don't stop with just doing a petition.

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:4484818
 9:22 pm on Aug 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

I would like to think that the MP who raised this as an issue will be able to do more than a petition or a few letters.

Maurice




msg:4484968
 10:41 am on Aug 15, 2012 (gmt 0)

@Leosghost Pull the other one business in the uk does lobby very hard

you havn't seen the heavy lobbying that the IOD and CBI Do? "oh noes the minimum wage is going up 20p where all doomed captain Cameron"

Both the IOD and CBI do cry wolf a lot of the time they tried to claim that the queens jubilee was going to lead the country to ruin - which did not go down well.
 

Leosghost




msg:4484975
 10:57 am on Aug 15, 2012 (gmt 0)

@Leosghost Pull the other one business in the uk does lobby very hard

you havn't seen the heavy lobbying that the IOD and CBI Do? "oh noes the minimum wage is going up 20p where all doomed captain Cameron"

Both the IOD and CBI do cry wolf a lot of the time they tried to claim that the queens jubilee was going to lead the country to ruin - which did not go down well.

Huh ?
Where did I say or infer that they didn't ?

The point is that individual small businesses get ignored, because they cant pay for the dinners and the yachts, that certain individual big businesses and or their CEOs, invite the lawmakers to, in order to be lobbied away from public scrutiny..and your typical small business doesn't get asked to dinner at number 10 or 11..

Nor is it's "lobbyist" married to a supposedly government advisor with "input" on the issues that they are lobbying about..

Then there are the friends of those in high places who make laws which affect said friends empires..or do the names Murdock and Hunt mean nothing to you ..not forgetting "Mandy"..so as to be even handed, as the problem "crosses the floor" and exists in both "houses"..

johnhh




msg:4485197
 8:01 pm on Aug 15, 2012 (gmt 0)

The simple fact remains that the money movements are legal. It has been legal for decades in the UK. Whether it's morally wrong is a different matter.

Confession: used to work, many years ago, for a company that shifted funds to an European tax haven - I used to write the invoices on the other company's headed paper ( the one in the tax haven) , send to the tax haven, they posted it back to our accounts department - all legal

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