homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.166.148.189
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Pubcon Platinum Sponsor 2014
Visit PubCon.com
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google Finance, Govt, Policy and Business Issues
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: goodroi

Google Finance, Govt, Policy and Business Issues Forum

    
Google's OpenSocial Network
engine




msg:3492454
 12:40 pm on Oct 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

Google Inc will offer Internet developers an open system to create applications across Web sites, a move that could challenge the features behind the explosive popularity of social network Facebook.

Google's OpenSocial system gives developers standardized tools to build applications and embed them in many sites, eliminating the need for small startups or even one-person shops to customize their programs for each site. It also has the potential to lure developers mostly allied with Facebook by allowing their applications to find a home on many other Web sites.

"This is about making the Web more social, how do you have your friends go along with you to any site on the Web?" said Joe Kraus, Google director of product management, in an interview.

Google's OpenSocial Network [uk.reuters.com]

 

Webwork




msg:3492561
 2:12 pm on Oct 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

Man . . social networking "as a platform, not a place" (access to all the value of best-of-breed social networking apps, unbound from the need to access a specific website) . . plus the emergence of a fully transportable "social graph" (no need to keep building a profile for each site and the possibility of carrying relationships and reputation with you, instead of having to start from scratch at each site) . . plus social networking trending towards niche interest (re-trending, due to empowering tools so small sites, with a social element, can compete) . . plus the social economics of increasing social networking value by increasing exclusivity/selectivity and decreasing social noise by empowering niche sites (empowering niche sites with tools so they can compete with "take all comers sites, such as Facebook) . . . with all that tasty new "data" for Google and all the Google apps likely optimized for easy optional integration with Google's APIs and Google as a "media - advertising/marketing - partner" to "help you" produce income (and them) by unleashing the capitalist spirit . . .

Imagine all the water behind a dam. To me, that is a fair analogy to forces "for real social networking", i.e., social networking unbound from a place, profile data ownership (by anyone but yourself), unbound from a particular application provider.

If Google can facilitate the unbinding of the urge or drive "to be social" from the many current constrants - such as place (website) or specific application provicer - and remove the burden of having to constantly rebuild network connections or reputation, well . . that will really be something.

My money is that given the social pressure (implicit demand) a new version of social networking will come roaring on the scene, sooner rather than later. Membership optional.

One big key: Access to and control of my information "is desktop", not network property. Having the ability to regulate the flow of personal data, on a opt-in and scale basis, will be essential to opening social networking.

[edited by: Webwork at 2:43 pm (utc) on Oct. 31, 2007]

engine




msg:3492596
 2:38 pm on Oct 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

On Thursday, an alliance of companies led by Google plans to begin introducing a common set of standards to allow software developers to write programs for Google’s social network, Orkut, as well as others, including LinkedIn, hi5, Friendster, Plaxo and Ning.

The strategy is aimed at one-upping Facebook, which last spring opened its service to outside developers. Since then, more than 5,000 small programs have been built to run on the Facebook site, and some have been adopted by millions of the site’s users. Most of those programs tap into connections among Facebook friends and spread themselves through those connections, as well as through a “news feed” that alerts Facebook users about what their friends are doing.

The NY Times [nytimes.com] has a good take on it.

Something along the lines of a sophisticated "twitter" network!

It's cool, but i'd miss the beer and sandwiches of a real live social network.

ergophobe




msg:3492668
 3:36 pm on Oct 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yet another case of Google becoming the new Microsoft? In other words, if MS did this, wouldn't there be all sorts of "M$ is the evil $oftware giant out to destroy the startup that challenges their hegemony" chatter?

Speaking of which...


The start of OpenSocial comes just a week after Google lost to Microsoft in a bid to invest in Facebook and sell advertising on the social network’s pages outside the United States. And it comes just before the expected introduction by Facebook of an advertising system next week, which some analysts believe could compete with Google’s. (from the NYT article mentioned by engine)

jtara




msg:3492741
 4:30 pm on Oct 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

All your stats are belong to us.

mikedee




msg:3492782
 4:54 pm on Oct 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

This has nothing to do with stats at all, it is an open API which independent websites will be able to implement. From the sounds of it, you can implement your own social networking site with a standard format. It would not have to touch Google servers at all.

Here is a link to the API documentation which will go live tomorrow

[code.google.com...]

This is great news for users of these sites because:

A) They will not be tied to one website, they will be able to easily move to another social networking site as they choose.

B) It will encourage more niche social networking sites because they will not have the problem of critical mass.

C) All their information will be kept updated across a wide variety of sites so they will have more exposure.

Its not such great news if you just spent loads of money on a tiny share of Facebook :(

It really shows that the great Microsoft does not understand the web at all. The only benefit of buying Facebook was that it stopped Google from getting it.

I am sure that within a year Microsoft will announce a special new service called Microsoft Social Open (available only for MS Windows operating systems - works best with IE and Office).

jtara




msg:3492925
 6:51 pm on Oct 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

This has nothing to do with stats at all, it is an open API which independent websites will be able to implement.

Ah.... Thanks for the focus.

Clark




msg:3493096
 9:44 pm on Oct 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

Funny, I was just saying the other day that investing in facebook today can result in a lost investment tomorrow for many reasons. Certainly did not predict that there would be a new system to make it obsolete, nor did I expect something like this so soon...but wow. What a great move. Still would rather invest in my own site than someone else's...but if you want to interface w/ social networks, this is the platform you should invest in...

One more note of downside:
If you've ever built or dealt with a community site, you know how ineffective the reputation systems are. Takes a lot of effort to keep things clean.

The whole idea of taking a reputation with you is rather scary. If they do a good job of kicking out offenders, this can work. But personally, if building a niche social networking site, I'd be wary of using an outside reputation system.

Jon_King




msg:3493173
 12:09 am on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Pardon my ignorance. Understanding the impact or expected impact of an open source framework for social networking? Help me out here... What is an real world example of the implications?

mikedee




msg:3493188
 12:42 am on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

From what I can make out there are 2 different aspects of the framework.

1) Information
2) Applications

1) Say you have a friend 'Bob' and he is registered on the Orkut site but you are registered with Friendster. You want to get Bob to register but he is not interested because he likes Friendster and doesnt want to manage 2 profiles on different sites. This API will allow you to add Bob to your Orkut friends even though he is registered at Friendster. You will get all the usual features like notifications on news about Bob etc. In theory if Bob started to like Orkut then there will be an easy export facility so that the data could be transfered over easily.

2) The application that someone writes for Orkut will work in Friendster without modification. This will mean that there should be more applications available for different sites and smaller ones will not be left in the cold as the larger ones have all the best apps developed for it.

We will only find out for sure when the docs are released, this is only what I can gather. I don't think it has anything to do with reputation, more hard facts (Name, Birthday, Hobbies etc)

Captaffy




msg:3493266
 2:51 am on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

From what I can make out there are 2 different aspects of the framework.

1) Information
2) Applications

1) Say you have a friend 'Bob' and he is registered on the Orkut site but you are registered with Friendster. You want to get Bob to register but he is not interested because he likes Friendster and doesnt want to manage 2 profiles on different sites. This API will allow you to add Bob to your Orkut friends even though he is registered at Friendster. You will get all the usual features like notifications on news about Bob etc. In theory if Bob started to like Orkut then there will be an easy export facility so that the data could be transfered over easily.

I desperately hope 1) will be true.

Miamacs




msg:3493533
 1:30 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

I consider myself relatively flexible for learning new things. I'm somewhere inbetween a 'user' and a 'geek' in that regard.

...

But today I'm in user mode, and having read through all this my head started spinning, my eyes became sore, and I had a hard time imagining even a basic example of these things actually working.

This is all too complicated.
Web apps? API? Platforms? Implement?
But not only creating, using such apps... bothersome.

...

I'm tired of these vague 'here you go, we built the framework now DO somthing with it' initiatives.

If they knew how to make this simple enough for both my 13 y/o half-emo sister and my 5n year old tech-ignorant stepmother ( both of them use social networking ) they didn't make it open source, but actually DO it themselves and put it online.

But they didn't know how to, couldn't negotiate with other huge networks ( that they don't own ), don't have a fan base in this regard so... it's up to bored programmers to build something usable out of all this? And perhaps it'll spread like AdSense.

The last time we built something successful using a Google API the entire program got CANCELED without us or anyone knowing, and after 3 years of a fully functional - and marketed - *cough* BETA version. The message that it'd be closed was put online after an entire month of it not accepting new signups. Bye bye API.

I know I won't touch this, but you go ahead.

...

btw... will you?

mikedee




msg:3493590
 2:19 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

This news is for developers only, if you understand even a bit of it then its a bonus...

To try to put it into some perspective...

All this is is a definition of an api, not the implementation of it.

They cannot withdraw it because its just a set of documents, they can withdraw their implementation of it (ie on Orkut), but that would not be in their best interests.

'They' have already done the work and built the websites, but they are not live yet. This has been in planning since September, they have to get lots of people to implement the API in order to make sure its a good one. The websites will be live soon.

Your sister and Grandmother will not know anything about opensocial, all they will see is better websites which work better with each other.

For more information see here

[techcrunch.com...]

Also its nothing to do with open source, its just an API definition, AFAIK there are no open source implementations (yet).

Miamacs




msg:3493702
 3:56 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Open source yeah, sorry my hand hand slipped.
I meant open. Make it open not open source.

btw, I don't really know which of us is worse in reading between the lines. You sure took me for a user this time, but that's no problem, I was acting like one. Or were you acting too?

This news is for developers only

Do tell.

All this is is a definition of an api, not the implementation of it.

Yes. Information on an API. Then I guess they don't want anyone to implement it.

They cannot withdraw it because its just a set of documents, they can withdraw their implementation of it (ie on Orkut), but that would not be in their best interests.

This is an initiative.
They sure as hell withdrew API programs before ( both implementation and documents give you a friendly 404 right now ).

'They'

No, it wasn't them for every site. They bought some of these sites, partnered with the rest. Except for this whatever with which they try to connect the globally less recognized ( although regionally prolly superior ) sites so they could build a user base that comes near to facebook or myspace... they didn't really create sites.

This has been in planning since September, they have to get lots of people to implement the API in order to make sure its a good one.

Yes.

So again the question.
If Google has a system with which ... well basically it could make all these participating social networks get connected, ie. in layman's terms, even a user could import/export the data.

Why did they release an API instead of doing it themselves ie. marketing all this B2B among the socnet giants?

...

Gee I wonder.

Thus they open the initiative, make the code easy to use, in hope it'd spread. Companies developing such websites could now implement stuff that retreives data from the other networks Google has affiliation with / ownership of / deal with in place ( see the list ) which is however... not an impressive list.

Their only chance is that bored programmers, or people who see a chance in this ( I sure don't ) will spread the use of the API, thus provide a huge, HUGE platform for NEW signups to either of these networks. I'm sure they aren't afraid of losing their user base, people don't leave socnet sites they like. This isn't really about user satisfaction for the current members, rather that they want to expand the user base. This deal excludes all the major players. So they'll be doing the bottom-up marketing with the webmasters and developers doing the work for them, as with all their successful stuff.

But... something is different.

...

That unless they strike some milestone deals, this would be a losing game, for they are the latecomers, not the pinoeers in this area.

Your sister and Grandmother will not know anything about opensocial, all they will see is better websites which work better with each other.

Stepmother not grandmother, but that's ok, at least now I know how much you've been paying attention.

Apart of that, I sense a big misunderstanding here, so lemme explain why I bought those two mildly serious net-addicts up before I get another comment on their level of involvement.

Unless there was a single button on the network they used with which they could import/export, ie. share data ( what data? their connections? ) among the one or two they are a member of... this won't interest them. I'd like to note that neither of the sites they have profiles on is on the list.

....

Why the API?
If it's to connect the major players then why make it open?
Because it DOESN'T connect the major players. At least not in a way Google would benefit from it. They need to make it open. Give it more gravity. Let others explore the possibilities... etc.

But again... back to the two mentioned above.

...

They won't use a 3rd party website to sort their 'profiles'.

Isn't this part interesting?

They won't use a 3rd platform to organize their stuff on the other two sites!

They have 7 different email addresses on 8 sites! ( oh please don't comment on the numbers... )

...

They LIKE accessing them one by one.
They like having different connections here and there.
As people offline, they don't mix one community with the other. And can be a fangirl on one, while a different person on another. Like in real life... not all of your friends mix with all of your friends(' friends).

Furthermore, both of them are newcomers to the net and are very cautious ( as the whole new generation ) about stuff that isn't introduced to them by MASSIVE conventional media hype. They don't trust information that originates from the net.

Back to the question why the API, my answer is, because they don't know what to do. They have in the past opened up other programs to spin them around, out of which only a few became a success. The rest had sometimes been scrapped. Yes, documents, implementation, all of it. 404. No support. No successors. The end.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea...
How would I know... just had some thoughts on it.
But speaking of perspectives, how does this all go with the privacy concerns ( not mine ) and socgraph stuff they keep mentioning? Will they aggregate the different data at any point if only to analyze it in-house? Even if there's no interface ie. a 'new social networking' site acting as a front-end?

claus




msg:3493727
 4:27 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Ah, uhm... Google Passport, isn't it?

mikedee




msg:3493776
 5:06 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Why The API?

The reports seem to suggest that the move mainly helps developers of applications/widgets that run inside the websites. Those developers will be able to make their widgets work on any supported site. They are trying to reduce the number of API's that have to be learned (and developed).

Obviously the smaller players have more to gain from working with open standards, but these sorts of things change rapidly so one day facebook might want to implement this api so that they can regain some users.

I *think* that this might be the API that we are talking about. Friendster has released these documents but I don't think it will be live until the 30th of November. If this isn't the opensocial API then its along the same lines.

[friendster.com...]

The API for Orkut, Ning etc will be exactly the same except the URL will be different. Any other sites are free to implement the same protocol.

jtara




msg:3493780
 5:14 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Ah, uhm... Google Passport, isn't it?

I'm afraid we can only guess, because it's "tomorrow", and the promised documentation is not there. Way to go, Google!

Maybe they meant by the end of the day.

Oh.... they did...

The New York Times learned of the alliance’s plan from people briefed on the matter. Google, which had planned to introduce the alliance at a party on Thursday evening, later confirmed the plan.

Are we invited? This *is* "open", right?

OK, I know we normally don't link to blogs here. But maybe the moderators will indulge me in a link to a "famous person's" blog (Marc Andreessen). This is the most detailed information I've seen so far on OpenSocial:

[blog.pmarca.com...]

There's also a series of screencasts and screenshots there:

[blog.pmarca.com...]

[edited by: jtara at 5:39 pm (utc) on Nov. 1, 2007]

lorenzinho2




msg:3493789
 5:17 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

So the pitch here for developers is:

Instead of building features / apps for each of the social networks and having to write and maintain code that is specific to each, you build an app once, and push it out to any social network that's participating (Ning, Plaxo, etc.)

The pitch here for social networks / sites is:

If you make your community site conform to the open social standards, you then have access to a large developer community building features and apps for your site (much like Facebook has benefited from the 6K plus apps that developers have contributed).

tntpower




msg:3493901
 6:50 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Dirty trick

If I cannot be the No.1, then I will destroy the No.1
If I cannot make money from it, nobody else can, either.

mikedee




msg:3493974
 7:49 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

People are making money from this social networking thing?

System
redhat



msg:3494443
 10:02 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

The following message was cut out to new thread by engine. New thread at: goog/3494441.htm [webmasterworld.com]
9:07 am on Nov. 2, 2007 (utc 0)

alvin123




msg:3498408
 5:05 am on Nov 7, 2007 (gmt 0)

Google: As Open As It Wants To Be (i.e., When It's Convenient)

[searchengineland.com...]

Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google Finance, Govt, Policy and Business Issues
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved