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MSN Update?
MSN Update?
MLHmptn




msg:1536225
 9:09 pm on Sep 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

It appears to me that there has been another MSN update and alot of the scraper sites and keyword laden domain names are no longer owning the first page of SERPs. Of course this is only in the areas that I follow keywords for. Can anybody else see a huge difference in the SERPs?

MSN is making great strides in the quality of its SERP's and it appears to me that they are indeed listening to what webmasters are telling them!

Thank you for MSN Microsoft!

 

steveb




msg:1536255
 10:25 pm on Sep 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sorry, but I can't seriously accept that you believe that. MSN isn't remotely in Google's league in any way, and I say that even considering the sandbox, and even considering my own main site is now in Google &filter=0 hell.

One interestingthing about MSN is I get a lot more referals for #5 and #7 terms on MSN than on Google or Yahoo because very often none of the other sites in the MSN top ten answer the query. In contrast, if I'm #7 on Google, at least four of the sites above me answer the query fine.

In areas where there is little money to be made, and thus nobody bothers to spam, MSN might be adequate -- except in its idiotic geolocation. But anywhere where there is serious money at stake, MSN is utterly incompetent. It isn't a question of ranking a great page above a good page. MSN has no concept of "great" or "good". They only count blog links to keyword subdomains. They just don't have 80% of the stuff necessary to be called a "search engine".

martinibuster




msg:1536256
 10:35 pm on Sep 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't know what SERPS you look at SteveB but the ones I look at haven't changed one bit...

Might be enlightening to broaden the range of keyword phrases you follow, even those you don't trade in. Good way to see things happening.

I definitely see changes.

tonmaster




msg:1536257
 7:48 am on Sep 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well I have checked few money keywords and all the 10-20 results there are 90% spam sites, how use blog spam redirect clocking...
This is very sad that MSN still reward those sites
and those not know how to remove them

Pauloogle




msg:1536258
 1:29 pm on Sep 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well something has happened. My non spammy site was de-indexed to 9 pages. (From over 200) and removed from my keyword SEO'ed SERPS. No idea why - bit of a bummer really as its clean.

ramachandra




msg:1536259
 1:38 pm on Sep 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Today my site is doing well in SERPs for all my keywords. Lately but thing are going well for me at this moment.

BetterSEO




msg:1536260
 5:55 pm on Sep 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Definitely seeing some movement here. Overall, the results seem to be better.

However, at least one of the most relevant sites (i.e. mine :)) has dropped several positions and some spammy and/or less appropriate sites now outrank that site. Other sites have probably shifted too, but I haven't tracked MSN's SERPs quite that closely recently.

I think they still have some work to do.

aeiouy




msg:1536261
 9:22 pm on Sep 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

I know some people, myself included, have sites that have not had a cache update for pages since before things started going wacky.

On top of that, I have not even had a visit from msn spiders since before things began to change, except for a single robots.txt on one site. A few other people have reported similar experiences in some cases.

So not sure what is up, but something has been going on, and it is unlikely it is over as sites are not being properly visited/cached listed.

Patience is a virtue, but who needs virtue?
:)

caveman




msg:1536262
 1:18 am on Sep 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm guessing that the MSN results since yesterday seem too eratic to stay in place for long.

But I confess to being stunned lately at the downturns in quality at all three of the major SE's, all of which have now dropped out many quality pages across a variety of different kinds of SERP's, seemingly due to various filter tweaks/additions.

sugarrae




msg:1536263
 12:43 pm on Sep 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>It's too bad we can't all give out keywords

Most of us wouldn't do that even if it *was* allowed.

>>>I get a lot more referals for #5 and #7 terms on MSN than on Google or Yahoo because very often none of the other sites in the MSN top ten answer the query

IME, if I'm not in the top 3 on MSN, traffic is almost non-existant. But, I also deal with queries that are 99% commercial in nature - and tactics and their vailidity, morality, etc aside - spam usually *has* what a searcher is looking for on a commercial term (in regards to you saying people don't find what they want in the top three at MSN).

>>>Might be enlightening to broaden the range of keyword phrases you follow

Agreed. Grab some outside your realm both commercial and informational and tab those as well to get a bigger picture. I'm seeing a whole new SERP.

>>>This is very sad that MSN still reward those sites
and those not know how to remove them

Oh come on. Last I checked, spam still gets past ALL the search engines, even the beloved Google (its funny to hear its praises in here when you hear nothing but its evils in the G forum). Granted, some engines are harder to spam than others, but keep in mind that some engines have had a long time to deal with the problem. Back when "other" engines were the age that MSN is, spammers opened cans of whoop ass on them - with much less sophisticated techniques than those aimed at MSN. Cut them some slack, let them gain some experience and don't expect the kid to be shooting three pointers from 30 yards away two days after picking up a basketball just because Charles Barkley can.

>>>Today my site is doing well in SERPs for all my keywords. Lately but thing are going well for me at this moment.

Sorry, I'm going to say it, and receptional can mod me if needed - this post didn't help this discussion one bit. How a single poster's sites are doing is meaningless to the general population. If you think you can identify *why* your sites are doing well or why some around you fell, this might actually *help* the discussion.

>>>major SE's, all of which have now dropped out many quality pages across a variety of different kinds of SERP's

Baby with the bathwater caveman. Yahoo and Google though have been *way* worse about this than MSN though, IME. As in comparing a rock to a mountain.

As I said before, I'm seeing internal pages take a bit of a dip. They also seemed to have a handle on indexing affiliate ID's on the update prior to this, but those results have since creeped back in. My guess would be internal backlinks or ROS (which technically would attack both) may have seen some devaluation. But, I don't use a lot of ROS - if someone who does wants to sticky me with anything they've noticed, please feel free.

PaulPA




msg:1536264
 2:29 pm on Sep 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well I guess I spoke too soon when I said things were looking better. Seems things have returned to where they were. Two days ago I was sitting at #3 for a major business search term in MSN (I'm #2 and #3 at the other big engines on this term) and now I'm nowhere to be seen in the first 500 at MSN. My guess is there is a major update coming from MSN fairly soon.

caveman




msg:1536265
 4:24 pm on Sep 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

> Baby with the bathwater...

Yes indeed. They're all looking bad right now, each in it's own way.

As for MSN's current failures, they include:

- deep-geo-pages ranking in the top ten for broad category kw's (where geo's have no place)

- lots of 'about us' and 'advertise with us' pages ranking in the top 10/20/30 for broad terms

- high level pages replaced with less relevant sub level pages from the same site, for searches where the high level pages made more sense

- numerous categories where sites ranking in the top 20 have no relevance whatsoever to the query ("widgets" query turns up sites on "sprockets")

*sigh*

zeus




msg:1536266
 4:45 pm on Sep 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

This IS a update, but what has changed, it looks like on page seo has gone down, but dont hope we see the same as on google, as soon you have a lot of links pointing to you, you are no.1.

Im not sure what have changed in this update, personaly my site have droped 2-4 places on page 1.

Shurik




msg:1536267
 8:48 pm on Sep 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

My main site keeps loosing pages - down to 29 today! Most lost pages are 3rd level with unique content. The site still gets traffic thanks to the home page and a few strong 2nd level pages. The lost pages can still be seen using site: command with the old MSN cookie.

promis




msg:1536268
 10:24 pm on Sep 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Same here. Lost 1200 out of 1900 pages.

McMohan




msg:1536269
 7:38 am on Oct 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

I notice on few of my domains, the homepage is devalued. Doesn't rank for any keyword and doing a site search, comes in at the end.

ramachandra




msg:1536270
 8:14 am on Oct 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hey, same thing for my three sites too not showing home page, even from site:www mysite.com not visible my home page anywhere.

zeus




msg:1536271
 10:22 am on Oct 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have seen this homepage trouble before, sometimes it takes a weeks time and its back in MSN serps, but this time it has taken much longer.

RichTC




msg:1536272
 11:55 am on Oct 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Msn uk is now just awfull again. It has changed again since about Wednesday, i genuinely thought they were going in the right direction, the results then were at least useable, today they are plain hopeless.

Its like they added an extra item to the algo in the last few days to really f'ck it up.

Its this desire to try and give index page results for everything - it doesnt work!, i just dont get it. If you have a rich content page about blue widgets, the new algo would rather take the user to the sites widget home page rather than take the user to what they are looking for.

Madness

RichTC




msg:1536273
 12:29 pm on Oct 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

And this business about pages vanishing - whats this about?.

Four sites ive seen have seen in the last four weeks have pages in the index reducing by the day and another doesnt get even 10% of its content in the index.

This started from the previous update about three months ago i believe.

I think the bot just cant cope, far to many webmasters are noticing page reductions, the number of pages in its index must be reducing - msn must notice this.

JenniferL




msg:1536274
 3:58 pm on Oct 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

My rankings have been all over the board for the last month. Jumps from #3 to absolutely nowhere in a matter of hours. The longest a ranking has stayed put is 2 days - and that's pushing it. It's getting quite frustrating to watch. I see sites ahead of me that have *nothing* to do with the query.

aeiouy




msg:1536275
 9:15 pm on Oct 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Lots of people seeing pages returning to near normal levels in last 24 hours now.. I know I have.. and MSN bots appear to be behaving more normally again.

Some of my sites didn't get visited in 8 days, then they get a visit and next day back where they belong.

I think MSN had a glitch somewhere that was causing things to be majorly of kilter. Be it because of attempted algo change or something else.. so they either reverted or fixed the problem.

steveb




msg:1536276
 10:41 pm on Oct 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hardly. This is just MSN as normal, perhaps finally effecting some areas it didn't before.

For the past year it has been common in competitive areas for a page to rank in the top ten one day and 57 a couple days later and 22 a couple days later, etc.

Frankly I'm amazed that anyone would say their MSN rankings "returned" to somewhere. Except for a few obvious #1's, virtually nothing I track stays at the same spot from one week to the next.

Just one keyword I've been 7, 5, 3 and 24 in the past week alone.

aeiouy




msg:1536277
 1:54 am on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hardly. This is just MSN as normal, perhaps finally effecting some areas it didn't before.

For the past year it has been common in competitive areas for a page to rank in the top ten one day and 57 a couple days later and 22 a couple days later, etc.

Frankly I'm amazed that anyone would say their MSN rankings "returned" to somewhere. Except for a few obvious #1's, virtually nothing I track stays at the same spot from one week to the next.

Just one keyword I've been 7, 5, 3 and 24 in the past week alone.

Believe what you want. Clearly something happened since the 23rd/24th of September where many sites dropped down or dropped out of MSN. Lots of those sites stopped getting visited by MSNbot and did not have their missing pages updated in the index at all.

Now in the last two days many of these pages have been visted by MSNbot again, recached and showing back up in the rankings.

It has clearly not been the same old thing that has been going on with MSN.

steveb




msg:1536278
 6:13 am on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

It clearly is, although may be the first time you experienced it.

(Moved four spots since posting a few hours ago.)

coconutz




msg:1536279
 6:37 am on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> virtually nothing I track stays at the same spot from one week to the next.

A number of kw phrases that we track fluctuate almost daily by a few positions, some domains drop out of their index until they're crawled again and return in a few days.

Seems like a poor attempt at maintaining a fresh index.

McMohan




msg:1536280
 10:03 am on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

This particular problem of homepage not ranked for any keyword has corrected itself in last 24 hours.

sugarrae




msg:1536281
 1:04 pm on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>nothing I track stays at the same spot from one week to the next

Honestly, I haven't had that experience - maybe it is my sectors (some niche, some competitive) - but the results are usually pretty stable, with a minor tweak every 1 to 2 weeks that causes a little shuffle. Amazing that we can have such different experiences. OF course, the last three days, I *have* been seeing what you describe steve - but it was pretty darn stable prior to that for me.

aeiouy




msg:1536282
 3:29 pm on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

It clearly is, although may be the first time you experienced it.

(Moved four spots since posting a few hours ago.)

You need to venture outside of Webmaster world once in a while.

A very different upheaval took place over the last 10 days ago that has nothing to do with the regular variations you are talking about.

smartseo




msg:1536283
 4:46 pm on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

well After MSN update i still not find my website in MSN search index. even i did site:mydomain.com and still unable to find any single page.

can anyone shade on why this happens. Site has totally informative text with related images.

I am worried about my site indexing.

phantombookman




msg:1536284
 5:49 pm on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't know what I'm doing to achieve this but all of my sites are now #1 for their most important and competitive 2 word seach terms. The serps have always been good for me since they launched but now they are amazing.

They do not deliver any traffic sadly but that's another story...

McMohan




msg:1536285
 6:19 pm on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

The serps have always been good for me since they launched but now they are amazing

If only I could get ranks in Google the way I get on MSN ;P

This 138 message thread spans 5 pages: < < 138 ( 1 [2] 3 4 5 > >
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