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MSN vs. Google: Major effort not yet turning tide
Is the costly effort paying off? No!
Imaster

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 9:31 am on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

NetRatings data for February, the first full month since the Microsoft initiatives took hold, show that no dramatic upsurge in MSN Search performance has materialized to date. The number of page views for MSN Search budged less than 1 percent in that period, to 816 million in February from 809 million the prior month.

[msnbc.msn.com...]

 

rj87uk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 10:12 am on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

Interesting, I saw an AD for MSN search on sky1 (UK) last night, it didnt really impress me could have been more interesting!

Ray

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 8:48 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Justin Osmer, an MSN product manager, hinted the $200 million marketing push is just the beginning."

How about investing $20 in making a search engine that doesn't stink?

patoruzu

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 2:35 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want

Rolling Stones

dickbaker

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 10:19 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

But if you try sometimes...
You just mind find...
You get what you need.

<neener>

patoruzu

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 11:41 am on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>You get what you need<<<

A good lesson?

webhound

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 5:54 pm on Mar 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

steveb: well put. be nice if they'd put a little of those dollars into making msn search provide more relevant results.

phantombookman

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 6:14 pm on Mar 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

The vast majority of web users are creatures of habit, most using Google - so why change?

I rank #1 for a 10 million return search on MSN and they delivered 1 visitor yesterday!

jmccormac

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 449 posted 6:57 pm on Mar 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've been looking at stats (a 100K page web directory) here and MSN hasn't even beaten Yahoo yet. It is running something less than a tenth of Google's referrals. Microsoft is just a desktop software company - it had problems when it tried to move to the server side. It had problems when it didn't quite get the internet. And I wonder if it really gets search.

Regards...jmcc

np2003

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 11:13 pm on Apr 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

We will see in 2yrs time. MSN will beat Google, come back to this archive and look then. :)

Liane

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 11:40 pm on Apr 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

I know what you mean phantombookman.

I rank #2 for a search with 15,500,000 results on Google. Yesterday I received 19 hits on the page in question.

I rank #1 on MSN for the same page with 236,739,226 search results. Yesterday I recieved 6 hits.

I rank #3 on Yahoo with 14,100,000 search results (same page) and I rec'd 4 hits yesterday.

Google is still outperforming everyone. No matter what anyone wants to believe, you can't pretend Google doesn't deliver and if you aren't ranking there ... you are nowhere!

When a #2 listing on Google delivers triple the amount of hits in relation to a #1 listing on MSN ... there is no denying which engine searchers prefer. Yahoo is ... well ... ah, who cares?

ByronM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 12:04 am on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'll take Yahoo anyday over google or MSN.

Google is the microsoft of search engines.. no one just wants to admit it :)

ken_b

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 12:19 am on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google is the microsoft of search engines..

Does it matter?

Isn't it more important to be where the traffic comes from? We'd probably all like to rank great on all the engines.

I know I'd like to get the same traffic from MSN and Y! that I get from G. But even with pages that rank fairly similarly, G pushes way more traffic to my site.

And relevant traffic pays the bills.

In the end, I don't know if anyone can really afford to write off any of the big 3, I sure don't want to do that. But I won't cater my site to an engine that isn't competitive in traffic terms for my site.

Liane

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 1:56 am on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'll take Yahoo anyday over google or MSN.

Deal! I'll take Google and MSN (in that order) and you can have Yahoo ... 'K? ;)

lorenzinho2

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 2:31 am on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Big problem I see with MSN to date is crawling....they've crawled less than 1% of our site, and about 1% of what Yahoo and G have crawled.

If you believe any of this long tail stuff as it applies to search, that's just not going to get it done.

b0rdslide

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 9:32 am on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm not surprised by this, the MSN Search adverts that have been running here in the UK have been really poor, not memorable whatsoever.

The recent batch of AskJeeves ads however have been a lot better, will be interesting to see if any of the other engines begin tv advertising again.

1milehgh80210

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 9:42 am on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I dont see MSN catching G unless
1)they improve results
2)creatively market their engine (not tv)
3)google stumbles (more)

creative craig

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 9:47 am on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

The recent batch of AskJeeves ads however have been a lot better, will be interesting to see if any of the other engines begin tv advertising again.

Be even more interesting if Ask Jeeves start sending any traffic!

sem4u

WebmasterWorld Senior Member sem4u us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 10:03 am on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I saw an Ask ad yesterday on the TV. Can't say that I was very impressed.

TV ads alone will not bring searchers in. See Excite & Lycos...

jd01

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 11:54 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I tossed the G, Y or M question a bunch lately...

Is M being overly effective right now, no, but I like their position... My money is on them.

Here's why:

1. M is *not* dependent on search to remain profitable.

2. Y and G must succeed in search to exist, anything M takes hurts their ability to function, and only adds to M.

3. Y had their IPO chance, money's gone... couldn't win, will be tough to get to the top, when they have to raise necessary funding the old fassioned way.

4. M has more experience bringing a product to market than both Y and G combined.

5. M has the funding (cash) to take a short term hit, but win in the long-run.

6. M has consistantly proved, the best product is not always the most used... Marketing and Marketing $ are and will always be king.

7. M is hands down, no question, one of the greatest marketing companies in the world.

If I'm in the industry, I really don't like the fact that M has decided to set their sites on what I have.

I could be wrong... we'll see in a couple of years.

Justin

BTW I use a mac, so I am definitely not a M guy, but objectively I like their position.

momotan

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 2:14 pm on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

If you want a look into the future, just look at what happened to Netscape (now, nothing more than a brand name) when Microsoft decided to enter their space. G and Y are dead meat. Count on it.

mblair

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 9:39 pm on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

But as Google is sitting with a market cap of about a quarter of Microsoft's (62 Billion vs 272 Billion) they have a lot more firepower to stave off an assault from Microsoft than anyone else has had, when given the fact that Search is of primary interest to Google and tertiary intrest to Microsoft. Microsoft needs to focus on reinforcing and maintaining its leadership postition accross many, many frontlines in order just to maintain a status quo.

RichTC

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 9:59 pm on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I like the MSN search very much but at the end of the day it just doesnt have the market share and TV advertising is not the answer.

They need to do strategic deals. If you look at google they have deals in place with the likes of AOL and Virgin Net,BBC, Wanadoo etc, etc all feeding off their search engine results data. Meanwhile, who are MSN search supplying? - errr no one!, this is MSNs problem.

Until MSN start signing up a few key players they wont get the the market share even if the search results are 100 times better than google.

As for a search engine, half the time people dont have a clue who it is they use other than the one on the internet providers home page. The one thats most convenient.

Just asking my wife tonight which search engine she uses on the computer (is it MSN or Google) the answer was the search box on AOLs home page (googles data)

TV advertising wont work because its just to much hastle, its far easier to use the one on the home page then go elsewhere.

Also, as for ASK jeeves, its all google PPC adverts anyway so a win, win for google again!

jd01

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 2:24 am on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Rich,

All very valid points... I would argue there is one area that is forgotten. M's soon to be released beta desktop search. What is better than to follow advertising with putting the product you are touting in front of nealy every user on nearly every PC?

Oddly, I use G, eventhough I don't like the results. Why? Because, it's in the address bar on F-fox and Safari, the two main browsers I use. If it were not there I cannot think of a good reason to use G. All things being equal (EG I have to type in an address or click a link) I would use M or Y every time.

Sometimes people use what is closest or most convenient, when it becomes as, or more convenient to use M as it is G the rules of the game change.

M's advertising today is just a precursor of 'things to come' to a 'desktop near you' tomorrow.

Do you think maybe they will add their search feature to the browser 80% or more of the internet uses? Hmmmmmm

Only time will tell on this one...

Justin

BTW I love speculation and speculative arguement, don't you?

badass101

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 11:11 am on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have to say, the MSN search results are nice - and quick - but the thing I *hate* about them is that their search is based on a content site (and I've never read anything on msn.co.uk)
I think they should make their search more like Google - i.e: a box and a button... the whole thing is too overloaded at the moment, and certainly puts me off!
I realise you can go to search.msn.co.uk, but how many end users know this?!?! (and if I'm not mistaken this isn't the address they push in their ads)

OddDog

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 7:47 am on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

just to add my two cents of a euros worth ...

i get the impression that MSN search will lift off once it is part of the desktop of the new longhorn operating system.

i would not be at all surprised that that does to other search engines what the same tactic for IE did to Netscape.

just in case this scenario is correct, i would recommend working on msn search placements now.

Romeo

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 9:21 am on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

... although no tide seen yet, perhaps in the long run, MSN will be to Google, what IE was to Netscape.

MS is in control of the desktop, not google.

"Hi, this is your friendly Change-old-habits-assistant.
You just typed in ...ahem ... "www.google.com".
However, surfing on the dark side of the net may put you on risk. Do you want to get redirected to the bright side instead?
[x] yes take me to MSN, [ ] of course, [ ] ever, [ ] why not?"

Regards,
R.

skibum

WebmasterWorld Administrator skibum us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 449 posted 12:20 am on May 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

MSN doesn't know how to knock off Google. It doesn't matter if they have 10 dollars of $100,000,000,000 They don't know how to play this game. Microsoft has always been able to undercut on price or bundle new apps to gain marketshare. That's not going to happen with search. The Netscape-Microsoft war is not even in the same ballpark.

If they chose to, Google could probably make Office and maybe even Windows much less essential, but why try to go head to head with MSFT, at least right now? It might be a good decoy tactic to make Microsoft think they intend to come out with something to take the place of Office, but that's all it should be right now. If Microsoft really believed there was a serious threat there, they'd focus a ton of effort to thwart it.

There is more growth and easier growth taking a chunk of more transactions on the net. It makes more sense for Google to grow around Microsoft than to try to beat them at their own game (AdSense, banners, etc..).

Even looking at referrals, success for Microsoft is likely to be attracting 30 to 40 percent of the query volume on the net. In light of Microsoft's monopolistic reputation it is probably not in their best interest to gain more than 40% of the searches done on the net. The goal will be to have that 30 or 40 percent of searches originate from households & individuals with money to spend. They may be able to do that to some extent but it's not going to be any huge success for them.

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