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New MSN Search is LIVE
We are seeing a rollout of MSN new search
drdsl2000




msg:1538029
 3:20 pm on Jan 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

continued from: [webmasterworld.com...]


It looks like it might be tied into their lateset Windows update.

Results look very good so far, Look out Google!

AND THERE WAS THREE

The Dr

 

RobinK




msg:1538239
 10:39 pm on Jan 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

2by4, That is exactly what we are seeing. I too am hoping some more tweaks happen so that they are getting to the correct landing page.

mikec




msg:1538240
 3:34 pm on Jan 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

i'm just curious...some of you are seeing an increase in referral, but are any of them converting? i'm sure a few sites have seen a bunch of hits from me, but that's because i've been busy figuring out what spam techniques they've been using to rank. Alot of developers using the engine and seeing what results come up and what they look like. Are any of them actually customers? I had sites ranked well in the old msn and to be honest the traffic we got from them wasn't really anything to write home about.

grelmar




msg:1538241
 3:48 pm on Jan 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Into my third day of "spike" traffic on a content site.

Traffic: 2x normal
Pageviews: 3x normal. (People are actually reading through the site instead of just hit and walk traffic).
ADsense: 1.5x normal. Not much extra money.

Too soon to say if it's a trend. I've had similar spikes from G and Y on occassion.

woop01




msg:1538242
 4:05 pm on Jan 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just to clarify my other post, we also had a 404 script designed to change the .asp paths to .aspx and it was causing infinite loops when looking for non .asp or .aspx files. When it looked for the robots.txt file it ended up in an infinite loop. MSN said that was preventing the spidering so I don't know if it was that specific error or the lack of a robots.txt file causing it.

Dorian




msg:1538243
 4:33 pm on Jan 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm seeing beta results almost the whole time now.

silverhead




msg:1538244
 4:38 pm on Jan 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Observation: I was reading an article this morning that mentioned ADHD which I didn't know what it is so I go to MSN beta and type the words "what is ADHD" which produced relevance of that phrase at #10. I don't think I've seen it here yet but I've been noticing that the title tags don't mean anything on MSN beta.
Google for same exact search: #9, title tag (cashed words) relevance works.
Yahoo for same exact search :#1, title tag (cashed words) relevance works.
Purely from a surfer that wants information NOW Yahoo delivered. I'm not being biased as until now good ol MSN was my engine of choice as I use I.E and type queries in the address bar.

silverhead




msg:1538245
 4:45 pm on Jan 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

I forgot to include that the old MSN ranked "what is ADHD" as #1 with title tag (cashed words) relevance..hmmmm

csnet




msg:1538246
 5:19 pm on Jan 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

silverhead, old MSN search results resemble Yahoo results because old MSN is a variation of Yahoo-Inktomi.

I too have found that Yahoo (or old MSN) search produces the most useful results.

Here are some phrases that must be behind MSN's thinking in creating their own search engine:

"Why keep something that works, when something that does not work will do?"

"When users search for an actress name, they are really thinking about cigars and tobacco, so make a tobacco company the top search result and completely remove 95% of sites about the actress from all the SERPs."

"When typing a zip code and the phrase hardware store, never confuse the user by making the #1 result be a link to a list of local hardware stores located in or near that zip code complete with maps and driving directions. The user is obviously searching for manufacturer's sites that include the zip code number somewhere in their site."

"When a user types more than 1 word, unless they use quotes, make sure to exclude any page from the SERPs that contains the exact phrase entered. Other SEs that give weight in the rankings to exact phrase matches are just spoiling the lazy users. It's high time users are forced to do things the right way. Unless quotes are used, the new MSN SERPs must show only sites that pepper their sites with the individual words. Our algos MUST seek out and remove ANY page that uses the exact phrase. It is the only responsible thing to do for our users."

blend27




msg:1538247
 6:50 pm on Jan 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

and for the lazy users they should go to Google and in the search box type the 'help' and go to the first link that is not sponsored listing. yahoo results are not acurate at all and they are changing something at this time in their 'ALGO'. For years they would show most relevant resultes, know changes are here. We have a copetitor who has 2 word domain name, website has been up for 8 years, they are in Yhoo Dir, they are in DMOZ and they have more than 150 backlinks, ---GONE from the search results(Yahoo) 2 days ago. instead yahoo shows 10 results that - of the links pointing to 2 websites that are identical no readable text, well maybe some.

grelmar




msg:1538248
 7:26 pm on Jan 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Or in google, type in your average 2 word phrase, and rather than send you to a site about that phrase, you get a page or two of directory sites about that phrase.

And when you go to any of the directory sites, they mostly cross link with each other, so you can spend all day surfing in circles around directory sites.

Is MSN perfect? No. Is it good? No. It has about the same level of crapulousness as the other engines. But it's a different type of crap, so between Yahoo, Google, and MSN, I can find what I want about half the time.

Or I could use one of the half dozen niche engines I have loaded into FF search, and usually find what I want first time.

For the big three, at the moment, MSN is my favorite because it sends my site the most traffic.

As a searcher... Well, I mostly moved on from the big engines about a year ago.

Tigrou




msg:1538249
 10:33 pm on Jan 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Is MSN perfect? No. Is it good? No. It has about the same level of crapulousness as the other engines. But it's a different type of crap, so between Yahoo, Google, and MSN, I can find what I want about half the time. "

Dead on post grelmar.

TinkyWinky




msg:1538250
 5:03 pm on Jan 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

try to search the very common word fu*k and see the results

Much better if it was for f*cker though ;)

angiolo




msg:1538251
 9:02 pm on Jan 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

I noted that in the new Beta MSN, DMOZ is very important in ranking fine: if you have keywords in the Dmoz title you have a bonus... if your site is mentioned in some Editor profile you can have a boost...

egomaniac




msg:1538252
 9:23 pm on Jan 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

Here in northern California I am seeing the Beta results on both the live search and the beta search pages. Both have the "Beta Search" moniker in the upper right hand corner.

Results I am seeing so far are an improvement over last fall, but still not up to quality of Google and Yahoo. They don't have to give the same result, but they can't give crappy results for common searches. And that is what I am still seeing in some of the searches I ran.

I like having 3 competitors, as it diversifies the risks. But MSN still has a way to go here with this.

csnet




msg:1538253
 9:30 pm on Jan 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

We have been a DMOZ directory site for along time, as well as a Yahoo Directory site.

It has probably helped keep us as the #1 search result for a 2 keyword actress name search for 2 years on Yahoo, Google, Teoma, Ask, and Mama.

However, our site and many other sites in the same genre are listed nowhere in any MSN beta search.

This is black listing and censorship at its worst.

Barleycorn




msg:1538254
 9:38 pm on Jan 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

I live in the Bay area and am seeing the Beta logo in the serps. I was #1 in the beta serps for one of my money terms, but now, as of 1 1/2 days ago, i'm nowhere to be found. I had switched hosting approximately 2 weeks ago without a glitch anywhere else. I'm thinking that msnbot has yet to find my new location. Weird thing is that I thought I saw a correct cached version. Has anyone had a similar issue?

The Contractor




msg:1538255
 9:39 pm on Jan 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think a lot of the problem people are having with MSN beta comparing to Yahoo's results are that people forget that Yahoo leaves out a ton of sites. This doesn't mean these sites are doing anything wrong - they just leave them out. So on some of the MSN Beta searches you are not going to show the same cloakers and "keyword keyword keyword keyword keyword keyword keyword keyword" laden sites they see in Yahoo. I'm Glad to see MSN provide their own results - no matter what you may think of them personally. You can take MSN beta and find cloakers, same sites, mirrors, hidden text, and keyword spammers taking the top 10 results... I can take Yahoo and/or Google and do the same for some terms that interest me - so what does it prove?

edited
We have been a DMOZ directory site for along time, as well as a Yahoo Directory site.

It has probably helped keep us as the #1 search result for a 2 keyword actress name search for 2 years on Yahoo, Google, Teoma, Ask, and Mama.

However, our site and many other sites in the same genre are listed nowhere in any MSN beta search.

This is black listing and censorship at its worst.

Do I understand you correctly - you are using complete duplicate content and complaining that MSN Beta won't rank your duplicate content? And that's a problem with MSN beta? ...hehe ....if that's correct, now I've heard everything...

silverhead




msg:1538256
 9:49 pm on Jan 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

csnet wrote: This is black listing and censorship at its worst.

Maybe? hhhmmn..how about disorganization or pushing too fast. I've worked for brick and mortar business that put the cart before the horse than tried to catch up or do damage control.
I've done a number of searches on MSN beta and it's pretty literal as you've seen, grabbing at words to search and to heck with the order. I use to have sites rank well(on MSN) pertaining to the area I live in and now the results QUICKLY run out picking up similarly named areas here on earth. This thing doesn't need just one tweak to make it good!
What do you suppose the regular surfer thinks? I propose we ask people who aren't involved with I.T., design, mastering etc what they think of it.
If I were Yahoo right now, I'd have a tv ad blaring it's easier to find the things your looking for with yahoo.com (I'm not a big yahoo user either, well didn't use to be ;o)

csnet




msg:1538257
 10:06 pm on Jan 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>> Do I understand you correctly - you are using complete duplicate content and complaining that MSN Beta won't rank your duplicate content? And that's a problem with MSN beta? ...hehe ....if that's correct, now I've heard everything...

No, you certainly do not understand correctly. I have nothing to do with the other sites. Some are commercial photo sites, some are movie/TV database sites, some are fan sites, some are message board sites. There is a lot going on that is completely missed on MSN search that the major SEs find with no problem.

csnet




msg:1538258
 10:13 pm on Jan 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>>If I were Yahoo right now, I'd have a tv ad blaring it's easier to find the things your looking for with yahoo.com

That is exactly the opportunity that going live with this beta in this condition will provide to the other SEs.

It's not a smart move at all on Microsoft's part to release this just because the calendar says "Yep, we're past mid-January".

The Contractor




msg:1538259
 11:57 pm on Jan 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

Ok, thanks for making your point clear :)

There is a lot going on that is completely missed on MSN search that the major SEs find with no problem.

Wonder why MSN is getting this flak when the same could be said for Yahoo or Google? Just go to the appropriate forum and look through all the threads on "Why am I not in Google" and "Why am I not in Yahoo".

It's called "Beta" and if MS wants to go public with a beta they will do so. I know many serps that could be called "beta" in both Yahoo and Google. At least MS is crawling like crazy building an index. Take a look at Teoma or Yahoo and tell me how many sites aren't even in there? I personally know of close to 100 sites that have never received a hit from Teoma/ASK in a couple years. I'm not trying to stick up for MS although it may sound that way. People are panicking and that's all there is to it. I certainly wouldn't want to be using Yahoo's serps on a site of mine :)

dodger




msg:1538260
 12:11 am on Jan 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

<<It's called "Beta" and if MS wants to go public with a beta they will do so.>>

And if hundreds of thousands of people see the crummy results and don't want to come back they won't.

skipfactor




msg:1538261
 12:25 am on Jan 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>There is a lot going on that is completely missed on MSN search that the major SEs find with no problem.

MSN's finding it but it's not showing up in the serps. MSN shows a better representation of indexed files than G & Y! for my largest DB site (ASP), but it takes a quoted query with exact title tag words to bring up a dynamic product detail page.

RichTC




msg:1538262
 12:55 am on Jan 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

MSN is a superb search engine and this is just the start.

At last we are seeing results based on content in relation to the keywords requested rather than a pile of junk from the likes of Google and Yahoo that has been festering with the same dire results for years based on the principle that links are God.

Its also fantastic that MSN spider and update rather than the biased cr'p that google updates once in a blue moon.

Sorry but some posters in this forum are of the opinion that because they featured well in Google that they should feature well in MSN. Well wake up guys....MSN is not Google, thank God.

If you want to list well in MSN build your content up rather than building a link farm! Ive lost count of the number of sites that list high in Google that are just full of links and no dam relevant content.

Oh and one last point, hopefully following MSNs entry into the search engine lets just hope that Google and Yahoo at least try to get their act together and start working on providing some quality. Going back to the basics of matching a search term with content rather than links would be a start!

skipfactor




msg:1538263
 1:11 am on Jan 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>Sorry but some posters in this forum are of the opinion that because they featured well in Google that they should feature well in MSN. Well wake up guys....MSN is not Google, thank God.

I'm of that opinion and it works with some massaging. But a close look at the logs as usual generally show Google pulling obscure, deep terms that make you double-take; yahoo runs a distant second; and MSN phrases resemble "See Jane Run".

The Contractor




msg:1538264
 1:11 am on Jan 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

And if hundreds of thousands of people see the crummy results and don't want to come back they won't.

That's very true... just ask Yahoo how they lost and continue to lose users of their search - they had the entire market basically and blew it. I think Yahoo is more into marketing their properties than yours at this point and search results are becoming less important to them.

I don't think MSN is going to lose much in the way of users because they are switching to their own results instead of staying aboard a sinking ship...

csnet




msg:1538265
 1:19 am on Jan 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Nice theory, RichTC, too bad facts interfere with your assertions.

The sites I am talking about are loaded with content. Our site has dozens of video clips, hundreds of images, current news about the actress, and yes, links to other sites with additional content that we feel would interest our visitors.

MSN beta gives them a site that was last updated more than 2 years ago, a site that was last updated 1 year ago, and a tobacco company page promoting cigar and cigarette smoking. Nowhere does MSN give users ANY of the sites I am talking about that have active content about the actress.

Your assertions about content making a difference are simply wrong when it comes to the pop culture genre and MSN beta.

Our "sin" as far as MSN beta is concerned appears to be that we have links to these other independent sites that might interest our visitors. Heaven forbid that a user find a site using a web page rather than find a site through the official distorted lens of a high handed black listing censoring search engine like MSN beta.

The Contractor




msg:1538266
 1:27 am on Jan 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

so csnet your sites not in a search engine that is a few months old...and that makes it crooked and worthless? Man...too bad you aren't one of the unimaginable number that built sites and are sandboxed in Google, and Yahoo doesn't have a bit of interest in your sites. So are you included in Teoma? They been around going on quite a while now... I don't hear people saying they are crooked just because their site isn't indexed...hehe
Man, take a break... you are talking about a search engine that's been seriously crawling for a couple months...

edited
I have sites I'm involved with or have been that are not indexed or ranking at this time in MSN Beta, but I'm not going to call them crooked or censoring because they are not.

csnet




msg:1538267
 2:05 am on Jan 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

We are not just included in Teoma, we continue to be the #1 result for several 2 and 3 unquoted keyword searches in Teoma (Ask), Yahoo, Google, and Mama.

I see nothing wrong with criticizing a SE, and anyone who has complaints about the way the other SEs work should say so.

The reason I post here is to counter balance statements like "The MSN beta results are excellent", as if MSN beta is good enough for general release now.

I argue that releasing MSN beta now is doing MSN more harm than good and I agree with those that say it is opening the door to more market share for the other SEs. If you are concerned about making the other SEs better, I think you would want MSN to increase market share through excellence in the SERPs, not lose market share due to disappointing SERPs.

You are optimistic that MSN is working out the bugs and will get better results as time passes. After seeing the progression of SERPs over the past several months, I do not share your optimism.

steveb




msg:1538268
 3:30 am on Jan 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

csnet, you make silly "crooked" charges. It is a *beta* release. It is *supposed* to suck.

It is incomprehensible how you look at crappy results and leap to "crooked" rather than "lame". You appear to need to get your nose out of your own site, but more to the point, it is not a sensible idea to think someone is rigging a beta product that has only even partially earned any revenue for less than a week!

Wait at least until the game starts before you start saying it is rigged.

roycerus




msg:1538269
 4:23 am on Jan 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

From a consumer point of view google / yahoo are STILL probably the most relevant search result provider. MSN will take time in catching up.

Taking up some weird search keyword phrase [but realistic one]

MSN: *
<snip>

Google: ***
<snip>

Yahoo: *****
<snip>

Strangely yahoo has the perfect number one result!

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 1:50 pm (utc) on Jan. 25, 2005]
[edit reason] please guys - no specific kws. [/edit]

This 245 message thread spans 9 pages: < < 245 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 > >
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