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MSN Search will Turn more users to Beta Next Week
MSN Search, Beta
Erku




msg:1534461
 2:56 am on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

In MSN's blog [blogs.msdn.com...] Oshoma Momoh, General Manager, MSN Search Program Management, says that "Next week we intend to begin turning up the dial and direct more of our users to the Beta."

What does this really mean? Does this mean that the searchers will see the results that currently are in Beta?

Thank you.
Erku

 

RobinK




msg:1534462
 4:35 am on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

That is what I think they mean. We will have to wait and see how much they "turn it up" this week.

Imaster




msg:1534463
 5:34 am on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

That sounds like terrific news. I hope we see a transition soon.

adfree




msg:1534464
 9:57 am on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Anyone knows how they plan to survey user satisfaction?

Freedom




msg:1534465
 10:40 am on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Here: [channel9.msdn.com...]

rytis




msg:1534466
 10:50 am on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

One known method is to count how many users return back to search page (presumably unsatisfied with what they clicked), and then compare numbers from MSN-Yahoo! and MSN-Beta. May be there are other ways.

rytis




msg:1534467
 11:37 am on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Then camouflage some google results as msn's and compare too ;)

oooops....

larryhatch




msg:1534468
 12:50 pm on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Looks like MSN Beta shook up their listings, at least as of now in my little corner of the net.
From position #15 for my main KW, I jumped up to #9 (yippee! first page!)

That probably won't last long, but check your positions.

- Larry

Freedom




msg:1534469
 1:55 pm on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

He's right, there's been another algo change - even from the one last week/week before.

steveb




msg:1534470
 7:46 pm on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's Romeo and Juliet these days with the engines and blog comment spam.

mark1615




msg:1534471
 11:01 pm on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't see a change in SERPs - maybe a postion or two here and there but it seems pretty steady to me.

BillyS




msg:1534472
 11:50 pm on Jan 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

There were big changes for me... Yes there was an update. I do not worry about too many keyphrases, but I happened to find that I ranked #3 on a pretty good phrase.

Now I am ranking around #30 for the same. This just changed about 2 - 3 days ago.

sasha




msg:1534473
 5:37 am on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Did anybody see any increase in msn beta referrals?

No new referrals to speak of here..

yaelede




msg:1534474
 7:02 am on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

How do I distinguish between MSN/Inktomi and MSN/Beta referrals in my logs?

timster




msg:1534475
 2:16 pm on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Did anybody see any increase in msn beta referrals?

I haven't seen anything.

MSNBeta is the only engine to index my little online database (and rank it quite well) so I'm pretty confident I'll notice a spike in referrals when MS starts significantly serving out the new SERPS.

Dayo_UK




msg:1534476
 3:07 pm on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

MSN Beta results seem inconsistent and they do not always seem to serve up all results for the keyword search for.

Eg you can do a search for XYZ Widgets and get results 1-10 with no more - and then do a search a while later and get results to 1-1000 odd.

So I am finding it very hard to judge positioning on the beta results - ie how do I know if results are being left out!

Freedom




msg:1534477
 3:57 pm on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

You know, MSN has milked all the publicity that one possibly could out of "MSN Beta" - and whether it's ready or not, I think it's time to sh*t or get off the pot.

Sorry, just a rant out loud that I felt like stating for a long time now. I am just sick and tired of hearing about MSN Beta when they are still using YahInk for their portal.

They've reached the top of the bell shaped curve for pre release publicity and if they don't put it on MSN.com soon, their "blah blah blah (Better then Google) blah blah blah" will start to backfire on them.

steveb




msg:1534478
 6:50 pm on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

A search engine isn't about publicity. They should launch when they have a search engine worthy of the name. They don't now, and all the pumping talk to get them to release an immature product isn't going to make it mature any faster.

The new MSN initative makes sense to get the beta in front of more eyeballs while it is still very uncompetitive. Personally I'd be afraid about that though since their last two major tweaks have been steps back. Still, summer was always the best guess and they are on a solid timetable to meet that goal.

Freedom




msg:1534479
 7:10 pm on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

THere's some truth in what you say - but the statement that an SE isn't about publicity I don't agree with.

All 3 of them, Yahoo, MSN, and Google are in a Press Release war to announce this or that every week. Just look at the number of announcements that come out every week about this development or that development. They are trying to stay on the cutting edge, sure, but there's also a publicity war going on as well.

hedd gwynfor




msg:1534480
 7:17 pm on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

So will MSN gradually mix their beta results in to the Yahoo results that are now appearing onm msn.com?

I've tried beta, and I'm rather impressed with it. Anything is better than Yahoo! The nsooner it launches on their main site, the better!

phantombookman




msg:1534481
 7:25 pm on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

It would be a mistake to launch now, it is not ready in my opinion

I notice that much of the opinion is based on how a persons site is doing, i.e.
well ranked = great algo
poorly ranked = crap algo

Amazingly my 6 main sites all return #1 for their most important searches, absolutely fantastic, I genuinely am stunned. However...
where I differ from many of the posts is that I should NOT be #1 for all those searches! Therefore it is not ready IMHO.

I am inclined to think it is more of an indexing problem as opposed to algo.
A lot of sites I would expect to see are simply not there. Perhaps when these get listed the SERPS will have greater relevancy
Regards
Rod

Freedom




msg:1534482
 7:33 pm on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Some people think it's ready, some people think it is NOT ready - and it will ALWAYS be this way if MSN Beta is judged by how the person's own websites are doing.

(Objectivity and Unbiased Ops with the WebmasterWorld crowd? Impossible. Totally Impossible).

Think about it, if GOOGLE were in Beta testing (out of the mainstream) right now, how many people would be saying it is Ready/Not Ready? If Yahoo were in Beta testing, some people would say it's ready/ some not ready.

I still say it's time to sh*t or get of the pot for MSN Beta. Whether it is "ready" or not.

2by4




msg:1534483
 10:20 pm on Jan 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Some people think it's ready, some people think it is NOT ready"

Simple searches are ready, but more complicated ones aren't. I agree with phantom.. if they release it now it's a mistake, have you tried actually using this as your daily search engine yet, not just for testing your favorite keywords? I have, and I can't use it. I can use Yahoo or Google,whatever their faults may be.

Let me rephrase this, I just double checked, some simple searches are ready. It still can't give me the product name / product site in number 1 position for a global product, which yahoo and google both can. There are far too many failures like this to consider it ready as far as I'm concerned, but they will have to start testing it more heavily over the next few months. I think you are reading too much into that blog article personally, all they said there was they are going to once in a while mix in some beta results to test the actual system, the servers etc, with real traffic loads.

It was only a few weeks ago that you could only go more than about 7 pages down into the serps, this thing is still very raw and new. Only a few weeks ago, MSN beta was reviewed by a prominent online computer news site and declared easily the worst search engine out there. It's improving, but it's beta. I thought the first so called 'beta' versions were really 'alpha' versions, it's definitely a beta now though.

"A search engine isn't about publicity. They should launch when they have a search engine worthy of the name. They don't now, and all the pumping talk to get them to release an immature product isn't going to make it mature any faster."

Exactly. When I can really use this product for an extended time as my real search engine it's ready, as it is now, real searches almost always end up with me having to use google, I don't have time to mess with a product that simply isn't ready to go yet.

RichTC




msg:1534484
 12:16 am on Jan 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

I dont agree. I think MSN is ready to go live now frankly. It has 5 billion odd pages indexed, its not sandboxing sites holding them back, its not favoring old sites in ahead of new ones, its not working on the google principle of links are king which no longer works anyway - its a new totally different search engine based on content.

It will be an absolute refreshing change to see results that are relevant to the keywords requested rather than a list starting with the oldest sites first mixed with loads of directory sites and sites just full of link pages - googles current algo has gone too far and they are now starting to pay the price with poor results

If Google was absolutely fantastic with perfect results every time then just maybe i would agree with you, but the fact is that google is not perfect and imo MSN is already a better search engine and its just at the start.

I think MSN should launch the service now and more and more websites will take notice of it and then MSN can start taking the market share they deserve from Google. After all if MSN produce an exact copy of googles results what would be the point!

nzmatt




msg:1534485
 12:21 am on Jan 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't think itís quite ready - there has been no significant improvement since the Beta was launched.

There are still a few problem areas such as over reliance on keyword domains and multi url sites.

nzmatt




msg:1534486
 12:31 am on Jan 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Having said that, I think it is an excellent product!

ecomagic




msg:1534487
 4:45 am on Jan 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think it's ready I have a number 1 position for a search with over 25 million results.

I'm looking forwards to the new traffic when they flick the switch.

2by4




msg:1534488
 4:57 am on Jan 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

"I dont agree. I think MSN is ready to go live now frankly. It has 5 billion odd pages indexed, its not sandboxing sites holding them back, its not favoring old sites in ahead of new ones, its not working on the google principle of links are king which no longer works anyway - its a new totally different search engine based on content."

This is all true, but it doesn't change the fact that I can't use it to do routine searches, I don't get the answers I need. You've correctly noted the pluses, but you're not seeing the negatives. First of all, you have no idea if their servers are actually ready to go full scale. I don't either. I'll keep testing it once a week or so, but every time I've done it, like I said, I had to give up, I do complicated searches, and it just doesn't work. What I see is very typical beta behavior, the core stuff works, that's what people here are seeing that make them go, it's ready to go, but what I see is that the stuff beyond the core, the more complex parts of search, are still working in beta. It was only about 2 weeks ago that I did a search on a specific Microsoft software issue and got back pure gibberish in the serps, no answer at all.

Try using this thing for real searches all day, not 'kewpie dolls', 'hotels', or whatever you're using it where it is working for you. I'd like to see it work, I'd like to see it go live, it would have been even better 2 weeks ago for some of my sites, but I still wouldn't use the product, and neither would a lot of other people I think, including the computer press, who have already called it not ready for prime time. I think they tend to be a little more objective about things like that than people who's sites are doing very well in it at the moment. That can change, I had some number ones in MSN last week, they're gone this week. Don't get too excited, it's looking good, it's promising, it's not going to suck that badly when it goes live I think. But if they go live now, I don't know, it's hard to recover from bad press.

georgeek




msg:1534489
 5:52 am on Jan 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

What does this really mean? Does this mean that the searchers will see the results that currently are in Beta?

It means what he says, that from time to time they route some of the users from the live search service at search.msn.com through to the Beta web site in order to do scalability testing. Next week they intend to begin turning up the dial and direct more users to the Beta.

He goes on to say that the service remains in beta status and they will officially launch it when itís ready.

Clear enough.


dvduval




msg:1534490
 5:59 am on Jan 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

When they say "ramping up" that is a good sign. This will allow them to go full throttle whenever they feel like it, and if they have problems, they can say they were simply testing. I think they are going to start using it, but are using words that are safe. MSN employees have commented off the record they were planning to go live this month, and that was only a couple of months ago that they said this. It shouldn't be long now, bou of course, there could always be unforseen problems that delay release. Hence, it will be ready when its ready.

This 79 message thread spans 3 pages: 79 ( [1] 2 3 > >
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