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Microsoft To Launch New Search Engine
Anyone read the news about this Thursday?
TheGuyAboveYou




msg:1535619
 12:01 am on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Microsoft will launch this on Thursday.

Corp. on Thursday will start its long-awaited Internet search service, adding fresh competition to Google Inc.

The Redmond, Wash. software maker on Thursday will open to the public its service for searching the Internet after eighteen months of development. The company is trying to tap into the lucrative business now dominated by Google of combining Internet search and advertising.

[online.wsj.com...]

 

petehall




msg:1535709
 4:36 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Pete, you're leaving out some very influential factors, because Hitwise estimates traffic to a site, not searches on a site.
There are many more reasons to visit MSN than just search, whereas Google is primarily about search. Hence artificially spiked MSN figures.

Hitwise uses recorded data not estimations.

I'm not disputing those facts. When did I ever say the search facility was as well used or it delivered anywhere near the traffic that Google does? I didn't.

I pointed out that Google is clearly far better at its job!

Interesting that all these people are already arriving at MSN though isn't it...

cpnmm




msg:1535710
 4:57 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm a little confused by this. I'm seeing news items that say that microsoft is 'launching' it's new search engine today.

I go to MSN and there's nothing about the new search engine - the only place to find it is at the beta site.

So my questions is - is this going live on msn.com today and if not, when is it going live.

Thanks,

Chris

GoogleGuy




msg:1535711
 5:33 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

I go to MSN and there's nothing about the new search engine - the only place to find it is at the beta site.

So my questions is - is this going live on msn.com today and if not, when is it going live.

As far as I can tell, the launch today is moving their newest technology from techpreview.search.msn.com to beta.search.msn.com. According to Walt Mossberg at the Wall Street Journal, MSN has promised to move their new technology over to the main search box by the end of January. That's less than 2.5 months, so I recommend that everyone spend their full attention coming up to speed on beta.search.msn.com.

It's very rare to get to see a search engine in transition, because that's the best time to see what the different criteria are for ranking.

Do you see their three sliders? They are for "Very popular vs. less popular", "Exact match vs. approximate match", and "static vs. updated recently." It's really cool to play with these sliders. I'm sure that a lot of WebmasterWorld moderators are off tweaking values to get an idea of how things are computed, and what the relative weight are. For example, if you move the slider all the way to very popular and click search again--viagra.com disappears from the first page! That's a little counterintuitive to me, and it makes for some really interesting speculation about what Microsoft means by popular.

Most search engine optimizers will be fascinated by the ability to play with sliders and try to reverse-engineer how Microsoft is ranking. Not since Nutch have people gotten such a good view at the different components in ranking for a major search engine. Because of that and the fact the MSN has promised their new search will go live by January, I'd get busy playing. :)

Here's one other tidbit I came across while reading this morning. Following on Google and Yahoo's launch of blogs, MSN has launched a blog for its search engine as well: [blogs.msdn.com...]
Highly recommended reading--they've got comments enabled, too. I've really enjoyed playing with the new search, and I'd recommend that everyone spend 2-3 days getting familiar with how MSN is ranking pages--I think the effort will pay off.

WebFusion




msg:1535712
 5:35 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

I don't know whay they don;t just take the leap and put the results at the main MSN search. They're not the best yet, but they certainly aren;t bad (no worse than Ink, certainly)

How on earth do they expect to get a true evaluation when only webmasters are taking a look? No one here will think the results look good uinless their site(s) are among the top in their serps, right?

olias




msg:1535713
 6:47 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

It's really cool to play with these sliders.

And don't feel constrained by the sliders themselves, try changing the numbers in the search box. I discovered that two of my sites swap places for a particular search at a popularity figure of 38.4303 - you could presumably keep going to as many decimal places as you like.

It is also fun to try popularity numbers higher than 100, at 1,000 the results are starting to look a little odd, going way off course at 10,000 and by 100,000 results are becoming dominated by yahoo.com, google.com, etc

RoySpencer




msg:1535714
 7:02 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Woo-hoo! There's still hope!
After month's of Google (apparently) penalizing us (most pages not in top 800 of SERPs) for having two domain names pointed to the same site, (in spite of 301 redirects)......
....the new MSN search has us #1 for the (very few) of our pages that MSN has indexed so far.
Can't wait for 2005!

phantombookman




msg:1535715
 7:05 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Roy
same here Google dumped a specialist non-commercial site I had from page 1 to page 30, a real shame

But the new MSN has it as #1
Great News

vitaplease




msg:1535716
 7:26 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

[beta.search.msn.com...]

top downloads from MSN music is new to me

born2drv




msg:1535717
 7:27 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

I recommend that everyone spend their full attention coming up to speed on beta.search.msn.com. It's very rare to get to see a search engine in transition, because that's the best time to see what the different criteria are for ranking.

Hahahaha...

Translation: I want you all to study MSN's weakenesses very carefully so you can exploit them and bring them to their knees in January.

I'm just kidding GoogleGuy I know you're just as fascinated as all of us, but it's just funny to hear this coming from you, that's all ;)

outrun




msg:1535718
 7:37 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Interesting that all these people are already arriving at MSN though isn't it...

Depends on how you look at, for e.g somewere along the line one of microsofts products ask the user to set their homepage to an msn site msn messenger used to do this not sure now. User fires up browser opens up default homepage then user navigates to Google. Another scenario user logs out of hotmail it takes them to the default msn home page user then navigates to Google.

regards,
Mark

ogletree




msg:1535719
 7:46 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

You can't go by hitwise numbers. Everyone knows G is not the most populer website. MS and Y blow them away when it comes to visitors. Everytime someone opens IE they go to MSN then they type in Google.com and do a search. Nobody has access to the internal logs of these and other sites. You would have to have access to a lot of log files and only compare search traffic to bring numbers to this conversation.

steveb




msg:1535720
 7:54 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm getting paid ads at the top and the side (VERY busy page). Are some folks only getting them at the top?

BReflection




msg:1535721
 8:01 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Nobody has mentioned this. Anyone think that an official release of their search engine will coincide with a revamped version of LookOut?

That would be some competition... Google must be expecting this.

steveb




msg:1535722
 8:10 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Google had these sliders on their personalized search many months ago.

They didn't work very well either.

Both Google and MSN need to improve their quality, not add bells and whistles that shift the drivel around.

bakedjake




msg:1535723
 8:46 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy said:

I'm sure that a lot of WebmasterWorld moderators are off tweaking values to get an idea of how things are computed, and what the relative weight are.

And bravo for them giving us the ability to do so. As you pointed out, we don't get many of these. In fact, I think Microsoft is quite the innovator here - they're going to tell you why they're ranking the pages that they are. They're the first commercial engine to do so.

That makes sense to me. A search engine explaining why it's ranking what it is, giving you the ability to change it based upon what's more important to you - get this - without complicated search modifiers that no one can memorize.

Many folks are quick to blow Microsoft off here because of Release One search quality. Don't. The search game isn't won on search quality anymore, and Microsoft always comes back for the kill on Release Two.

GoogleGuy, I think you guys may be a tad bit more scared than you might be leading us to believe at this point. Microsoft moving away from blackbox and more towards something being open? Uh oh - better not let the news get a hold of that perspective. ;-)

internetheaven




msg:1535724
 8:48 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

recommend that everyone spend their full attention coming up to speed on beta.search.msn.com. It's very rare to get to see a search engine in transition, because that's the best time to see what the different criteria are for ranking.

Hahahaha... Translation: I want you all to study MSN's weakenesses very carefully so you can exploit them and bring them to their knees in January.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that shook their head incredulously at Googleguy's post. "Study" them now to get a look at how they rank? Obviously knowing how many spammers there are on this board that advice can only hurt MSN at this stage, no-one with "helpfulness" toward MSN would have made that post. Indeed, no-one who had taken note of this possibility would have stated that on a public forum to everyone else. I hear panic, and I smell death ...

<<<< quickly nips off to see if all my sites have been removed from Google now ...

elklabone




msg:1535725
 8:57 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

It looks like "classified ad" banklinks can boost your rankings significantly. One of our competitors is creaming us in MSN Beta with hundreds of backlinks from a classified ad network site. 100% Grade A SPAM.

jcoronella




msg:1535726
 9:26 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy:
I'm sure that a lot of WebmasterWorld moderators are off tweaking values to get an idea of how things are computed, and what the relative weight are.

Yes, a bit more useful than the allin searches on Google, and far more useful than the backlink check on Google. All these tools are definitely used to the detriment of any index.

Highly recommended reading--they've got comments enabled, too

Hey, look who's a blog s***mer!

sliders

Great concept.

"I'd like something that is fresh, but isn't popular or relevant"

[edited by: jcoronella at 9:29 pm (utc) on Nov. 11, 2004]

Rollo




msg:1535727
 9:26 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

I noticed that too but didn't want to sound out on it... was that really Google Guy in the MSN Forum suggesting that we SPAM the new MSN? Too funny. I guess Google is getting a bit nervous as well they should becuase Microsoft is ruthless and they have their sights set on search.

The new MSN results are decent and the presentation is great... the best of any engine I would say. I think this will matter to non-webmaster users.

I'm still wishing good things for Google even though they are making themselves vulnerable at the moment by going overboard to protect the PR concept from mild spamming and taking a lot of great sites down in the process.

oilman




msg:1535728
 9:37 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

It's like GG jumped and and yelled "Look over there!"

When that happens it's often profitable to look the opposite direction the person is pointing.

Chndru




msg:1535729
 9:37 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well, i am inclined to believe that you guys missed the subtle wit in the GG's post :-)

jcoronella




msg:1535730
 9:40 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

If I were MSN, I'd leave all the Scrap in the index for as long as it's in Beta. Lots of SEO's are sitting back and expceting it to roll out of the gates with the widget-widget.com domains, subdomain, and massive link scrap. Leave it in 'til the last minute and give yourself a head start like Google has learned to do with the alleged sandb**.

missed the subtle wit in the GG's post

Nope, enjoyed it I assure you.

GoogleGuy




msg:1535731
 9:59 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

I know everybody here has probably been checking out MSN all along. But every so often it helps to get a reminder: anyone who wants to put their eggs in different baskets owes themselves a few days of playing with MSN now. :)

I'm just kidding GoogleGuy I know you're just as fascinated as all of us

I can't help it. I'm a search geek. I looove seeing how other folks tackle things, so I've enjoyed playing with MSN's beta launch. I think it's cool that they've got a blog, too.

rogerd, sorry about mentioning specifics, I got carried away in my enthusiasm--thanks for the edit!

pmac




msg:1535732
 10:00 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

>It's like GG jumped and and yelled "Look over there!"<

No need to worry about a thing GG. Most of us know which side of the bread the butter is on.


Continued:
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