| 11:34 am on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
MSN already has the browser market today! and has had the browser market for several years.
MSN are able to generate a whole range of hype in the search market - in reality - its all sizzle. No steak yet. Just Sizzle.
Today - a MS powered Intel pc can already search its email system (outlook); search the files on the PC hard disk or network (windows explorer); and search the internet (IE Explorer adress bar) - without the user even being able to even spell 'search engine'.
Try it - type 'google' or 'widget' into the ADDRESS bar of your MS IE browser. Why do you think that Google/ Yahoo/ ebay commonly rank in teh top 10 search terms in search engines on the internet?
What will Longhorn provide? The much touted sizzle is a database based, single interface, search tool - allowing you to search email/ hdd/ network documents/ the collective knowledge of the internet....
- i.e. instead of 3 separate searches today - you only need to do one....
But - the ability to do ALL these searches has been available for years - as a default setting/feature. It isn't new.
So - the internet aspect remains. The default search engine used by typing in the IE address bar is MSN. Always has been on MS desktops. So why is Google the dominant search engine, and Yahoo! second?
Because - even though Microsoft is the dominant player in the 'interface' - its web search technology is a lagging, badly placed 3rd.
And if it didn't have the browser 'default' - it would rank well behind Gigablast/mooter/Vivismo in terms of global market share.
So whats going to change real soon? The ammount of FUD is my bet.....
| 12:07 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Yes, Chris D, I am aware that MSN has the browser market sewn up ... (for now) and that is my point.
If they also start providing their own search results in league with Google quality, (which Yahoo is beginning to prove is not beyond possible) they will win hands down because it is too much trouble for most users to bother changing their default settings or downloading another browser if they feel they don't need it.
By having the browser built into the software, MSN is the hands down winner IF they provide good search results.
It has been my experience that the vast majority of people will always take the path of least resistence. We are inherently lazy.
| 12:30 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>We are inherently lazy.
Yup, most of us are....that is why MS has 98% of the OS market and 96% if the browser market.......and will end up with the lions share of the search market.
"Where do you want to go today" will probably be replaced with "Butterfly it"....LOL :)
| 12:42 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|.... the vast majority of people will always take the path of least resistence. We are inherently lazy. |
If that were true - then MSN would already have been number 1 - and for the past few years -> thats my point - they aren't - enough have already changed their default - or bookmarked another SE!
The fact that MSN isn't number 1 - that's a positive sign - mediocrity isn't good enough in the search engine market!
| 1:32 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Chris_D, with the greatest respect, you like many others, are too impatient.
MS could be #1 in search tomorrow morning if they wished, they could simply buy Yahoo or Google. But, that isn't the game.....the game is getting to be #1 for the lowest possible cost with the path of least resistance while not letting the enemy "see you coming".
Why didn't MS buy Netscape? Why didn't it buy AOL? It has the cash.......it chose not to spend. I think it should buy AOL!
Y'all want a change in the next 24 hours.....Look for a minor change every year, for the next 30 years.......then think back on how they got there!
| 2:47 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Is anyone else confused by the statement that MSN will show Inktomi listings? How long do they plan on doing this? Inktomi listings are great, but new sites can't get in to this since you can't buy new Inktomi's anymore. Surely they don't plan on using the new Overture branded inclusion fee+cpc service that is replacing Inktomi, do they?
| 3:00 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>Surely they don't plan on using the new Overture branded inclusion fee+cpc service that is replacing Inktomi, do they?
Until they launch their own engine - yep! They are already doing it!
| 8:00 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|Surely they don't plan on using the new Overture branded inclusion fee+cpc service that is replacing Inktomi, do they? |
It didn't really replace it... it's the exact same thing with a different name.
However, I too am confused as to what kind of results the new MSN will display. Will it have something similar to Inktomi's IDIF? Will it have paid inclusion? Will it have natural results only?
Only time will tell.
| 8:24 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Don't know how anyone can assume that MS are going to dominate anything new. First of all their dominance of their current markets must in large part be due to PC's being shipped with their software already on it.
An ISP can put you online and stick whatever they want in front of you as a preferential method of browsing, but surely using any search engine from MS is going to be a matter of personal choice. So they'll be in the market to be judged against the competition. Unless of course they manage to effectively ship their search as preferential with some ISPs in some way.
| 9:02 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
It is coming soon. They are very excited about it. I have a friend that got to listen in on a conversation between a MSN rep and well someone else. (all I can say) One thing said is that MSN will assume you meant to put “quotation marks” around your search.
| 2:46 am on Mar 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|MS could be #1 in search tomorrow morning if they wished, they could simply buy Yahoo or Google. But, that isn't the game.....the game is getting to be #1 for the lowest possible cost with the path of least resistance while not letting the enemy "see you coming". |
Percentages - I suppose I'm just getting bored hearing that 'Microsoft is going to dominate search'.... After all, Microsoft launched its Inktomi-powered "MSN Internet Search" product back in September 1998.
Microsoft has been a search player for over 5.5 years - and all of that time it has been using other peoples technologies (Inktomi/ Looksmart/ AltaVista/ Overture etc).
Google was 3 people in a garage in September 1998 - it didn't go out of beta until a year later - a year after MSN Internet Search first launched - ie September 1999.
I don't think I'm impatient - I'm just bored with MS 'gunna' and 'sizzle'. Just show us the steak Microsoft....
| 4:00 am on Mar 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
<Percentages - I suppose I'm just getting bored hearing that 'Microsoft is going to dominate search'.... After all, Microsoft launched its Inktomi-powered "MSN Internet Search" product back in September 1998... AND ETC. >
AMEN. Google started small, stayed small for awhile, got medium, then got big, got very big, and finally became huge, because it played a very smart game, and all along was the best in returning search results. I bet it was not even on MSN's radar screen for years after it first started.
Today it is a household name. We have, in our ecommerce business today, little old ladies and very old men, to smart business men and women, who are new to the Internet and often afraid -- even today -- to charge their credit card on the Internet. So they call us for that part of the Internet order. When asked what search engine they used -- 99% say Google, and that is not just that we are listed well on Google. We are everywhere, either by paid results or natural results, and often more prominent on MSN and Yahoo than on Google. But they all know Google. All of them.
MSN will have to offer something very good to beat Google, and its now very well-known brand.
I do not see it in MSN's beta version today as it shows up on MSN search, as representing what we might expect they are going to roll out in July.
Even if MSN's new search is as good as Google, it will take some time for MSN to woo away the very many users of that search engine who have grown to love it over the last 3 years or so.
I have to hand it to Google; to date, despite all our (webmaster world) complaints and worries about whether we can understand its algo and system, it has done just about everything right as far as returning good, up to date, and fast results. And it has, from the feedback my ecommerce customers give me, a very very, loyal customer base.
We talk to our customers via telephone or email, and ask what search engine they use most often. They all tell us: if they want to find something in a hurry, and find the right result fast, they go to Google.
| 12:41 pm on Mar 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Perhaps part of Google's success is that they have picked on one thing and done it really well...and the whole organisation is still concentrated on that one thing.
Just off-topic for a moment, I'm sure that with the net being relatively new, there are a few Google's kicking about in garages now that are going to take on 'niche' market sectors and beat the big boys, even in the next few years. Because on the net, a niche can be massive and there are still plenty of consumer gaps, needs and dissatisfactions.
Once the larger companies get into the decision by committee phase of existence....
| 6:26 am on Mar 26, 2004 (gmt 0)|
"The LA Times headline states: Microsoft Redesigns MSN to Promote Ads
Could it be that Reed Stevenson of Reuters is misunderstanding a press release?"
According to this: [searchenginewatch.com...]
"MSN announced a redesign for its MSN Search service last week, a cosmetic change that helps the service comply with US Federal Trade Commission recommendations about labeling paid placement results.
The change being implemented on July 1 will not coincide with the launch of MSN's own search technology. A crawler-based MSN search engine has been in development since last year, but there remains no announced launch date for this."
| 7:33 am on Mar 26, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Steve Ballmer recently stated that the MSN Search engine will debut in 2005.
That's pretty clear.
| 7:43 am on Mar 26, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Have I heard this one before.
As an ex-netscape employee and a loooong follower of microsoft and their wily ways, I can tell you folks quite confidently that underestimating them is the last thing you ever want to do.
I think they have about a 80-90% record of crushing the competition. Operating Systems, Compression, Compilers, Word Processors, Spreadsheets, Web Browsers - you name it. If it was worth doing they killed the competition.
The only thing I think they never could quite win was money management. They tried to buy their way into that one, but the intuit purchase was blocked.
However, the rules are a little different this time. They have these freaking antitrust people constantly breathing down their necks. So yes, it is possible, Bill might not be saying "I came, I saw, I compressed" this time.
| 5:27 pm on Mar 26, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Um, what is this beta MSN Search I just found?
|After months of rumors and speculation, Redmond has cast aside the gossip and officially thrown its hat into the search engine arena, previewing a beta of its new MSN Search. |
I'm sort of out of the loop right now.
| 5:32 pm on Mar 26, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Ballmer would not plot an exact time line for the launch of a new Microsoft search engine, but he said first-generation technology from its development team will likely appear in the next 12 months.
| 5:34 pm on Mar 26, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|Um, what is this beta MSN Search I just found? |
I just did a side by side search with beta and hotbot and it looks like ink. The beta came out quite awhile ago, and I'm pretty sure it's ink.
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