homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.198.33.96
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Home / Forums Index / Microsoft / Bing Search Engine News
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: mack

Bing Search Engine News Forum

This 40 message thread spans 2 pages: 40 ( [1] 2 > >     
Ballmer to Google: 'We Will Compete'
Brett_Tabke




msg:1538277
 7:53 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

[crn.com...]

At the annual Microsoft financial analyst meeting, Microsoft Chairman and CEO Steve Ballmer vowed that Microsoft was determined to beat Google in creating the best and most popular search-engine technology.

"There's a lot of Google fascination out there and we share it, and we're going to compete," Ballmer said with characteristic bluster. "We're going to compete very, very hard."


 

jk3210




msg:1538278
 8:06 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'd give $10 bucks if Google would announce their intention to create an operating system designed to compete in the desktop market, just to see how the Ballmeister likes fighting vaporware.

skipfactor




msg:1538279
 8:33 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

very, very hard

They want it very, very bad.

Clark




msg:1538280
 8:57 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Maybe Google should start supporting Microsoft's competitors. Like a regular toolbar for I.E. with a note that an enhanced toolbar is available for Firefox and Opera users. Same for gmail. I understand for the short term it's better/easier/more marketable to develop for I.E. users, but MS is their enemy. If they bought Opera, I.E. would have major competition overnight.

ronin




msg:1538281
 9:08 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm not for a moment suggesting that G makes the following mischief - I think Google is of far better character than Microsoft...

But MS punches low - remember the browser wars?

And remember the way Microsoft messed about with stylesheets on Opera, so that certain MSN pages didn't show up properly and made Opera look like it was broken.

I don't suppose the Google toolbar on IE could insert CSS modifications every once in a while?

Like: p {font-size:6em; margin:12em 0;}

That might speed the take-up of Firefox and Opera and the abandonment of Hotmail.

SEOMike




msg:1538282
 9:41 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think Google might be in great position to make a Google Browser. They could integrate their toolbar into it nicely. Also, they could offer it as freeware if the user accepted small ads from Adwords clients in the bottom of the browser... Ads targeted to what the page being viewed is about. Ooooo.... With their Gmail algos behind it, that'd be cake for them! (But that'd make all of us mad to have users seeing ads competing with our websites! haha)

Maybe after the IPO they could do something like this to help skyrocket the prices of their stock. I'd love to see a BIG company compete against MS.

Clark




msg:1538283
 9:43 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Mike,

Although I see some room for some of what you're saying, ads in the browser? If they go along with that angle, I can see the day when Google overtakes Microsoft as the most hated successful tech company in the world. Webmasters would RAIL. Can you imagine competing adsense ads with your own site. What a PR nightmare!

1milehgh80210




msg:1538284
 9:52 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'll bet plans are already in motion. )

hughy1




msg:1538285
 10:19 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you look at it overall , search engines are here today and gone tomorrow . I'll bet Ms will compete very very hard and come out on top.I don't know if it will be through low blows , their huge PR machine or something else but they control browsers and that's a real advantage.

SEOMike




msg:1538286
 10:20 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

ads in the browser?

Haha... I remember when ads on a search engine was a crazy idea! Targeted ads based on email content? That idea would never work.... Right? I mean, having ads presented along side your newletter advertising your product? NEVER! ;)

I'm not saying I LIKE the idea... just saying that it's a possible way of making money on a FREE version of the browser. Plus... think of the consumer! They would LOVE to see if there are better deals then the ones being presented as they are about to buy! I'd bet the browser we hate would be the one consumers LOVE!

SEOPTI




msg:1538287
 10:30 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

They are not able to release a popup blocker and want to compete in the SE market hahaha

TrustNo1




msg:1538288
 11:14 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

'We Will Compete'

I think they'll be as successful against Google as they were against Tivo.

ronin




msg:1538289
 11:33 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Uh.. SEOMike, Clark... have you... I'm not sure how to say this... have you never looked at Opera?

Clark




msg:1538290
 11:34 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yes, I use it. Why?

ronin




msg:1538291
 11:34 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

The free version has Google AdSense in the browser last time I checked.

skipfactor




msg:1538292
 11:40 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

From MS Search vs. Google, to the birds & the bees, to IE to Opera, to AdSense. Whew

Matt1972




msg:1538293
 11:49 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Show must go on...

ronin




msg:1538294
 11:50 pm on Jul 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Incidentally, since products like Firefox and OpenOffice.org are open source, why doesn't Google meet M$ head-on and release its own browser and Office Suite?

div01




msg:1538295
 1:41 am on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yahoo! has a browser (atleast for their DSL/Cable partner customers) so I don't see a Google browser to be a far stretch.

edit_g




msg:1538296
 1:56 am on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

I just don't see the browser market as a good market for Google to enter - think what you will of MS, they've been doing browser development for 15 years (more?), they've got a group of very smart people working on it and they're actually very good at it. Combine that with a self-perpetuating market (Windows upgrades) and you have a very hard fight on your hands.

Google needs to play on their strenghts (reach, innovation, speed etc). They can't afford to be inferior to anybody in anything they do at this point.

Birdman




msg:1538297
 2:27 am on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

Can you imagine competing adsense ads with your own site. What a PR nightmare!

mediapartner bot and opera browser [webmasterworld.com]

Clark




msg:1538298
 5:13 am on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

The free version has Google AdSense in the browser last time I checked.

Oh I see why you mention it now. I bought paid version before they had adsense on it. When I saw their free version it was regular ads.

But even so, there's a big difference between Opera as a different company using adsense and Opera being owned by Google using adsense on the bottom of the page. I could be wrong but I think webmasters would cry foul if it got big.

Clark




msg:1538299
 5:25 am on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

I just don't see the browser market as a good market for Google to enter - think what you will of MS, they've been doing browser development for 15 years (more?), they've got a group of very smart people working on it and they're actually very good at it. Combine that with a self-perpetuating market (Windows upgrades) and you have a very hard fight on your hands.
Google needs to play on their strenghts (reach, innovation, speed etc). They can't afford to be inferior to anybody in anything they do at this point.

I wish I bookmarked this article because it explained so well what I didn't understand before about the browser market, why IE stopped improving it and what the future is likely to look at. It was by a former microsftie.

Essentially, as huge as Microsoft is, what makes them who they are is the OS and Office Suite which had been growing and growing to obscene proportions. As this guy's time at MS went on, MS would start to look at new business needing to bring in more and more money. It used to be a business bringing in $100 million was important. Now they need to keep entering new business of billion dollar figures in order to keep growing. And this is hard to do w/ the efficiency of Windows and Office Suite.

So while they face this growth problem, they simultaneously have to deal with people not needing to upgrade OSes or Office Suites anymore. To top it off, there is the rich media (Apps running on Windows) vs. thin clients portable on the internet and manageable on the server side. Upgrade the server and everyone's copy is upgraded. Much easier for IT departments than the desktop paradigm.

It basically showed why it was key for MS to kill Netscape. As soon as they did, they stopped developing I.E. And it took many years for firefox and opera to catch up. Now w. the constant security issues reaching critical mass, the other browsers look attractive and MS has given in and reactivated their IE team. However they don't have the 15 years experience you think they do, nor are they all that good at browser development. They are in fact intentionally killing browser development because it is bad for their business. They are begrudgingly doing this I.E. development. They will probably add tabs and make it secure and basically do the minimum to try to kill mozilla and opera.

When analyzing this issue, you need to understand the motivation of MS. Hopefully someone will dig up the url to that article and Brett will allow it to be posted. If not maybe someone can offer it via sticky. I'd like to bookmark it myself if it can be found.

grelmar




msg:1538300
 10:26 am on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

Google wouldn't have to put ads in the browser to make moeny off it.

Ship it with Google.com as the home page (what massive % of people never bother to change their homepage?)

Put the G toolbar somewhere nice and prominent, thereby constanlty driving traffic back to G search.

Add just those two together and browser=paid 4 with a dumptruck of cash/month to spare.

edit_g




msg:1538301
 10:50 am on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think you make some good points Clark and I know that MS don't think browsers is the critical part of their business. That still doesn't help with the fact that they have the resources, the expertise and, most importantly: the Windows user base.

Most people just don't change their browser - and most people don't know or care about Google/Microsoft - they just click on the 'blue e' to use the internet...

Yes, Google could build a browser - but if they bungle a browser - people will begin to hate them. First the web designers (who have to work around the quirks) and then the surfers (who are presented with inferior looking websites). Building a browser isn't easy.

Anyhow - why the hell would anybody want a browser with ads? You can get a million and one browsers without them. Google will need to offer something truly new (look at Gmail; inovation) - how do you offer something truly new in the browser area - you still have to offer backward compatability and stick with what people are used to (forward/back/stop).

alpine




msg:1538302
 12:19 pm on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

How about a link on the Google home page to "Free Open Office"

Clark




msg:1538303
 5:30 pm on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

Good idea Alpine!

how do you offer something truly new in the browser area - you still have to offer backward compatability and stick with what people are used to (forward/back/stop).

That would be so easy to do you'd be amazed! For one, offer a combo / drop down edit box. As a designer I can't tell you how many workarounds I had to do to make things work that a combo box would have fixed with one line. Then you have all this crap that javascript does you can make part of the browser. The comment box I'm typing in is arcane. No formatting options at all other than being able to say wrap text.

Client side validation. (e.g. as a web designer, I'd specify an email input box and the browser would automatically force a valid email address, or I'd specify a URL input box and it would force a valid url.) There are a million things that could be if browser innovation would have continued. The world at large does not understand and realize that the entire internet is "crippled" nor the reason why (i.e. blame microsoft).

I remember how many cool new doodads came out w/ every new version of netscape and ie. We used to reload every 15 minutes in the office to find a new beta version. After netscape died, years went by with nothing. It's so sad compare to what could have been.

I'm convinced that if Google can keep their culture after IPO (a very tough feat!), then they can build a killer browser and bring innovation to the net in ways that would surprise you.

OTOH, my prediction is that Google's IPO spells the beginning of an opening for a smaller, devoted new search engine company to come in.

Yahoo had a similar PR that Google now does and it seemed like such a great company until the realities of the stock market turned it into another soulless corporation. The same will happen to Google. Their PHD's who turn into millionaires will lose the fire in their gut/retire etc.. Surprising as it may sound, IPOs kill incentive.

Another cycle on the internet has started... Hey, anyone want to start a new search engine with me? Just kidding. :)

Matt1972




msg:1538304
 8:01 pm on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

You're totally off the track now...

What have ads in Opera to do with 'We will Compete!'? Nothing. Ads are there because Opera wants to earn some money with them - we call this Opera being an affiliate. They are not part of 'Defending from MS' tactics.

Try to imagine next steps MS will do and how Google will defend itself. Forget Opera because it won't play a role in famous 'We Will Compete' story.

kpaul




msg:1538305
 9:37 pm on Jul 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

Is it all over when Msoft puts the search bar on the desktop/toolbar of the OS?

They've won a lot of battles because they own the OS and a lot of the software. It will be interesting to see if they can push Google over like they have other companies.

I'm rooting for Google, though. I just hope their IPO doesn't make them forget their roots - i.e. that the USERS' experience is one of the most important things.

I'm sure we'll all benefit, though, as competition spurs innovation.

rfgdxm1




msg:1538306
 1:37 am on Aug 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>Is it all over when Msoft puts the search bar on the desktop/toolbar of the OS?

Nope. IE already defaults to msn.com if someone clicks the search button on the browser. Google and Yahoo are currently *well* known sites.

This 40 message thread spans 2 pages: 40 ( [1] 2 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Microsoft / Bing Search Engine News
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved