| 10:04 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I'm seeing all results in those top product lists that are HUGE mega-businesses, direct links to the sites followed by a link to Froogle. Mom and Pop can now start weeping, gnashing their teeth and sitting on the ground putting ashes on their heads, if they haven't already. Like Job, what they've greatly feared has come upon them.
>>The act of betrayal just got even worse.
Napoleon, what I've seen is enough to turn a good woman evil. This is not exactly what I'd call warm and fuzzy, it doesn't warm my heart at all.
| 10:10 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
In the local Google version I don't have Froogle results, but when I use google.com I see them.
In addition to that I realised, that I get different SERP when I search in google.com than when I search in google.ch. Have I missed something or is this new? The local Google versions used to show the same results (as long as one didn't restrict the search to language or country specific pages).
From the stats I have we have still many people in Switzerland that are using google.com. So it is very annoying to display Froogel results as right now they are related to the US (as far as I can see).
Also showing people from one country one result when searching in google.com and another when searching in google.ch doesn't make sense (as Google proved that they can do better).
| 10:18 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I suppose thats one way to look at it.
|May see a gradual trend: |
the free SERPs will become less and less important to joe (ecommerce) surfer.
And if I was google, thats the way I would want it too.
OTOH one could say
the free SERPs will become less and less available to joe (ecommerce) surfer.
And if I was google, thats the way I would want it too.
Sure, everyone wants money.
The problem is that everyone thinks Joe Surfer is stooopid. In the aggregate, Joe Surfer is genious, ..damn near infallible. And Google is becoming more and more transparent with every passing day.
If only Yahovervista could step up to the plate. I can't see there being any incentive for that to happen as they are likely one of the great benefactors of all this. Joe Surfer is the loser because he will eventually foot the bill. There is no escaping that. And she is not stupid.
| 10:28 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|What are everyone's thoughts on how to win the war? Buy into AdWords to survive Google's assult... |
For days I've been waiting for someone to ask. My thoughts are to let Google hang to dry. Stop using or supporting adwords, adsense, froggle, the whole bigoogle bunch of them. Then put those nifty little "search google" boxes on every page of every site. They can spend their ill gotten gain on bandwidth.
| 10:33 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
What are everyone's thoughts on how to win the war? Buy into AdWords to survive Google's assult... <<
if PPC made sense for your business before all this -it still does.
if it did'nt-it don't
IMO nobody wins the war, u just try to get thru the day..
| 10:47 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Hmmm, anybody surprised at seeing Froogle might be surprised to know the sun rises in the east. This has been on the horizon for months.
Also, when it comes to products, centralization with a few "big boys" outfits competiting is also inevitable. If Amazon sold every product on earth, at the best price, and with the best service, why wouldn't they appear first for all "I wanna buy this product" searches? Of course, they aren't that diverse or have clearly the best service, but buying on the Internet is going to get more and more centralized. It has to. And so do search results for buying stuff. 10,000 sites selling the same thingee can only end up having ten sites in the top ten.
Good or bad, that's another issue, but this has to be the least surprising development in the history of search engines.
| 11:17 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>What are everyone's thoughts on how to win the war? Buy into AdWords to survive Google's assault...
It is a game of chess, Google has just thrown its Queen aggressively upfront and checked us....but we still have 12 pieces on the board, and as long as panic doesn't set in, the game has hardly started.
The good thing that has come out of the last 20 days is that it should now be clear to all what color clothes Google is wearing.
Are all those nice thoughts about Google being a tech/science/nerd based company and not one chasing the almighty dollar changing?
Update Florida, late on AdSense payments with no explanation, and Froogle in SERPs....all in 20 days, how fast a wolf can be unsuited.
Google has managed to reverse many of the things that made it popular with webmasters over 5 years in just 20 days.
I wonder how long Joe Surfer will take to react?
| 11:23 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I'm not seeing Froogle results at all, not on .com or .uk.?
| 11:25 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
hmm...just when you thought the serps couldn't become any worse, they add another experiment gone awry.
Oh well, gotta run and buy my $35 Television Set and my $299 marlboro cigarettes
| 11:48 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I'm seeing it in Australia. Seems like a usability improvement to me - I don't think many people will be interested in the latest news on "above ground pools"!
| 11:51 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
But the Froogle page is stillonly saying it takes US web sites, though a UK one has stuff on there.
| 11:56 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
The aspect of Google I used to enjoy the most was the "uncluttered" results. Now, the first SERPS is seven links down...
| 11:57 am on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
time to build thosescripts that link up every word on the page to new pages... or that baisian randomized semi-sensible text producer... hmm I jsut might do that... just to see how many billions of random pages Google will swallow ;)
Kiddign aside, I've long felt at a disadvnatage... what could I do if google decides not to pay me? what can I do if hte check "doesn't get through" month after month and all the ofer is to resend it a month later yet again. Well unfortunately I don't have Davids sling and there isn't much I can do...
So what can we do as a community of webmasters? After all we were powerful enough to make google. I don't want to "break" them, but I want my vote back. I want a vote to say what google should do. In a way it's taken on a leadership role on teh interent. Deciding for surfers what they should see. I think it is time for us to hold them accountable. How can we join forces and make our voices be heard, lest we get trampled under by the money interestes of the Google-Behemoth.
I'm not google-bashing, and it twists my heart to say anythign against them. But If I lookinto a google-ruled future I only see bleak and grey. Ibelieve we must speak up now, or forever hold our proverbial peace.
| 12:00 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>That should add fuel to the fire of those touting the commercial/AdWords conspiracy theories
Jeez - can people stop using the word conspiracy? Is it conspirital [is that even a word? You get the point - ] to change your frontend to generate more revenue? Its google's product. If you want stable traffic, you buy it from AdWords. If you want to try your luck, you use the free rankings. MY relevant results are not necessarily YOUR relevant results.
A 'theory' is just aa 'idea' ... adding the word conspiracy is only done by a close minded person to give it a negative air to the theory.
| 12:15 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>If you want stable traffic, you buy it from AdWords. If you want to try your luck, you use the free rankings.
Actually if you want less than 5% of all available traffic for most keywords you buy Adwords, if you want the other 95% you work out how the Google Algo works and then game it.
Of course those that have never had top ranking "free" positions don't realize how much "free" traffic verses AdWords traffic is available ;)
p.s. there is no such word as conspirital in the English language, regardless of the 551 results Google produces ;)
| 12:19 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
percentages - you know its not about quantity, but quality :)
My point is that the addition of that stupid 'c word' infront of theory causes many people to discount it without thinking that it makes COMPLETE SENSE from a business perspective.
| 12:20 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>Could someone post an example of a kw that produces Froogle results
Not unless I wanted to get hit over the head with "baseball bats" ;)
| 12:27 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>> Not unless I wanted to get hit over the head with "baseball bats" ;)
Will that be the 200 dollar one, or the 30% off?
| 12:39 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>percentages - you know its not about quantity, but quality
AhmedF, it is actually about both. I know 10% of my "free" SERP's convert, and I know that represents twice as many sales as traffic from Adwords. If 100% of Adwords converted (we all wish) it would still only represent 50% of sales.
On the "C" word, its use by definition implies the theory doesn't make much sense, those using it typically want the theory to be discounted.
I don't really think that Google has deliberately targeted commercial sites in update Florida, they did something else which just happened to make it look that way.
Must admit though my initial reaction several days ago was that they had targeted commercial SERPs. That theory got blown away with more analysis of the SERPs.
| 12:41 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Msg 44 by percentages. Awesome post. Could not agree more. Nowadays if anyone asks me which search engine to use I give them 3 options.
| 12:56 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
There is a word in English, it's conspiratorial.
| 1:02 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Thanks for the words - they are not on google uk (yet).
| 1:06 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
> don't really think that Google has deliberately targeted commercial sites in update Florida, they did something else which just happened to make it look that way.
Deliberate or not, the current situation is open to abuse. If Google suddenly loses a whole bunch of sites, their adwords soar. If they introduce a radical new algo, their Adwords sales soar again. They really can't lose.
When one search engine controls 80% or so of the industry- Whether it be Google or any other company- it is not good for the Internet and that includes Joe surfer.
I must say, however, I am surprised by the extent of Google's arrogance.
There is more to the world than Google's narrow perspective.
| 1:21 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>If Google suddenly loses a whole bunch of sites, their adwords soar. If they introduce a radical new algo, their Adwords sales soar again. They really can't lose.
Sure they can lose, they lose because 95% of people don't want to click on their Adwords and use Google because they like(d) their free SERPs.
Destroy the reason you became popular and you are on a road to ruin.
As someone else posted in another thread, it was a primary factor in AV's downfall. Adding Froogle to the SERPs is in some ways rubbing salt into wounds.....the question is who's wounds, webmasters or G's?
| 1:25 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Altavista was never as dominant.
Ask Joe surfer to try another search engine, and with so many stuck to google [or even getting on the information superhighway with google as the leader], a blank stare is not uncommon :)
From what I have seen, amazon.com is by far the BIGGEST winner of this update by a mile :)
| 1:28 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>> Sure they can lose, they lose because 95% of people don't want to click on their Adwords and use Google because they like(d) their free SERPs.
I agree. I always try to click on the free serps. IMO if a site has been SEO'd than it will be relevant to what I am searching for. These listings for Froogle will hurt most SEO's all the way around and only help Google.
| 1:31 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>Ask Joe surfer to try another search engine, and with so many stuck to google [or even getting on the information superhighway with google as the leader], a blank stare is not uncommon :)
Yes, Google are more intrenched than AV was. Also, Google has a very stong public relations stratergy.
| 1:39 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
There used to be numerous thread at WebmasterWorld saying "bring on the froogle to the front page", "It's time they got it out of the shelves". And what happened now?
And if only someone can appreciate how difficult for an algo to detect products and match them with prices and their images. Now only they complaining about Adwords Clickthrus...man!
| 1:48 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>After all we were powerful enough to make google. I don't want to "break" them, but I want my vote back.
You had nothing.
>I want a vote to say what google should do.
Should do? Got a couple of billion $s? Last time i looked in the IPO forum, it was valued around $16B.
| 2:23 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>> If ever they needed a PR guy it is now ;)
Going into an IPO they don't need reactionary PR.
The street wants stable companies which can predictably deliver on their forecasted earnings. They don't need a company that tweaks algorithms on a Friday night. :)
Ever heard of an enterprise rolling out a new version of a CRM or ERP system 20 days before year end?
Oh well.. :)
| 2:25 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>> I would think they only show them for US visitors - can anyone tell us if this is the case?
My Google Geolocation tend to shift between Denmark and Germany. I don't see it. However, if i query datacenters directly i see it - quite cool feature, imho:
http //www-ex.google.com/search?q=above+ground+pools >> The local Google versions used to show the same results
Added: btw. golf club (news) and golf clubs (froogle)
That would not be recently. This changed a long way before "Florida", but perhaps all countries have not been equally fast to get "localized". We have numerous Google's now, not just one.
that difference between club and clubs is interesting - in this case it is clearly right&relevant not to use stemming, yet another piece seems to pop nicely into place in the puzzle
[edited by: claus at 2:59 pm (utc) on Dec. 6, 2003]
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