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Google Shopping (Was Google Merchant Center) Forum

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Froogle
Googles Froogle Shopping search goes Beta
feeder




msg:1530736
 2:40 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

[froogle.google.com...]

 

ipohopper




msg:1530766
 4:14 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yes but there are many of us affiliates out there that will get hurt by this. As soon as I saw the results I got sick to my stomach and I know I'm not the only one!

iPo

BigDave




msg:1530767
 4:15 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm sure that I will end up doing my Christmas shopping with it in about a week, but at the moment I am having a blast searching for all sorts of obscure stuff that I will never actually use.

Hmmm, 3418 results for widgets:)

msgraph




msg:1530768
 4:18 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

There's no need to panic so quit worrying for now :)

This is just another advanced web feature and people will always flock through "regular" searches for other information. Your sites will still have a chance to come into play. Give it a year, probably two, then worry.

[edited by: msgraph at 4:19 am (utc) on Dec. 12, 2002]

Cooter




msg:1530769
 4:19 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

If Google ever did decide to use this technology to become a super affiliate, they would be using their search engine product to squelch competition and raise issues about Fair Trade.

But as Googleguy says, Google isn't going into affiliate marketing.

[edited by: Cooter at 4:21 am (utc) on Dec. 12, 2002]

pmac




msg:1530770
 4:19 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Its a long way off before this comes out of beta. I'm not hanging my hat on what I see NOW. Lots of time for study.

jeremy goodrich




msg:1530771
 4:20 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

the ads are there.

And I'll bet lunch GoogleGuy won't comment on the CPC ads in their 'free shopping engine'. It wouldn't come out right.

This way, they are still selling ads - on both sides of the page.

GoogleGuy




msg:1530772
 4:21 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Woz, our mission is to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful. We've always experimented with different ways to organize data (such as our specialized searches). We try lots of different things, like the two experiments we just put up on Labs, and see what people like.

jeremy_goodrich: The right-hand side are regular AdWords. :) If something shows up in Froogle results, it's probably because we crawled it on the web. But I'll repeat: we don't give any special or preferential treatment to any search result. We sort by the results we think are the most relevant. We think that's the best way. :) But anyone can buy AdWords, which would show up on the right-hand side of Froogle in a clearly marked way.

jeremy goodrich




msg:1530773
 4:29 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

So, the seo firm is there by accident. :)

Does google drive revenue via this 'accident'? Or just the SEO firm?

(the regular froogle results, not the ads on the right hand side).

gopi




msg:1530774
 4:34 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Brett , I think Froogle will need a separate Froogle forum soon :)

europeforvisitors




msg:1530775
 4:41 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

I know that many will disagree with me, but the affiliate model, while not ever dying out, will become less viable in the future and has already passed it's "golden age".

I think affiliate programs will become just another form of advertising--which was the original concept behind affiliate marketing, unless I'm mistaken. Even if pure affiliate sites are killed off by shopping search engines, changes in SE algorithms, or whatever, there will still be value in (for example) a manufacturer of canine products being able to sell poodle sweaters, labrador backpacks, etc. through content or community sites for dog owners. The person who's never heard of a pet car seat or who hasn't even thought of canine ice crampons for winter dog walks won't go looking for such products in Froogle, but he may buy them if he sees them featured on pug-pals-of-portland.org.

[edited by: europeforvisitors at 4:47 am (utc) on Dec. 12, 2002]

born2drv




msg:1530776
 4:43 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Googleguy - Do you think Google will have a problem with people putting text or other descriptive / graphical information with the image of the product?

For example, a canon G3 digital camera. Can you put like "Free 64MB card!" in text with the picture?

defanjos




msg:1530777
 4:49 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

In competitive items searches, the results from the first 2-3 pages are all from a datafeed - it is too obvious.

Basically Froogle is like your Sunday's paper flyers - only the big stores are in there.

If you are a small online store that sells an item that happens to be sold by the big guys, this is a bad day for you.

nough said.....

GoogleGuy




msg:1530778
 4:51 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

born2drv, I think people are always welcome to put whatever they want on their home page. That may affect how Google evaluates a web page, which is one reason why so many people enjoy discussing Google around here. :)

jeremy_goodrich, we show results that we think are the most relevant, and users go there directly. Google doesn't derive any revenue from showing the Froogle search results--we don't charge for inclusion, and we rank by relevance order. We do show clearly marked ads on the right-hand side, just like we show ads next to Google Search results, Google Groups results, etc.

gopi, I think three Google forums is enough already. :) If Brett adds another Google forum, they'll have to find a FroogleGuy. ;)
Well, maybe I'd drop in now and then.. :)

jeremy goodrich




msg:1530779
 4:54 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

So it is an accident then? Okay, I'll buy that. :) couldn't resist the pun

GoogleGuy




msg:1530780
 5:08 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Well, we use data from crawling the web in Froogle, so I wouldn't be surprised to see data from the web in there.

One way to think of Froogle is that it shows all the places that we know of on the web where you can buy something--plus we're adding feeds from other merchants too. But it's the power of crawling the web that lets someone find 1500+ results for canon GL2. (If Santa is reading WebmasterWorld, I'd love to get one of those puppies in my stocking. :) )

[edited by: GoogleGuy at 5:25 am (utc) on Dec. 12, 2002]

AAnnAArchy




msg:1530781
 5:20 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy
But it's the power of crawling the web that let's someone find 1500+ results for canon GL2. (If Santa is reading WebmasterWorld, I'd love to get one of those puppies in my stocking. )

I'll give you one if you get rid of Froogle.

GoogleGuy




msg:1530782
 5:24 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

No, AAnn, I only want presents from Santa. ;)

ggrot




msg:1530783
 5:25 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'll give you one if you get rid of Froogle.

I'll pitch in. But, I'm thinking about this from the point of view of a spammer. It is an awesome technology, and could be quite useful to a surfer. I just think developing something around solely commercial purposes seems to indicate some ulterior motives.

[edited by: ggrot at 6:08 am (utc) on Dec. 12, 2002]

GoogleGuy




msg:1530784
 5:29 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

ggrot, the right way to think of this is that there's a whole new opportunity to connect with users who want to spend money. New opportunities are good. :) We do think this will be a useful type of search for all sorts of people.

dvduval




msg:1530785
 5:31 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

I would love any insight people have about the algorithm. I am tops on Google, but not so good on Froogle. I see products on pages with low pareranks placing high. Can I relax and watch the algorithm get adjusted? Or is this pretty much it?

dvduval




msg:1530786
 5:34 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Sorry, I should have started with a compliment:
It was like seeing the Grand Canyon for the first sime. I first saw it out of the corner of my eye and thought, "no way". Then I actually looked at it and found how incredible vast it was.

GoogleGuy




msg:1530787
 5:37 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

dvduval, compliments are always greatly appreciated. :)

Just my personal take: I've seen Froogle rapidly getting better and better, so I think that there are still adjustments and improvements in the future.

Beachboy




msg:1530788
 5:40 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

GG is at WW fulltime tonight, fielding foul balls, pop flies, grounders and the occasional line drive.... For me personally, I don't do affiliate stuff so I'm not affected, but this is very impressive, I have to admit. I just took a brief look at it before I ran out (Christmas shopping), and I believe this is all about shopping for PRODUCTS, right? What about services?

GoogleGuy




msg:1530789
 5:44 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Good call, Beachboy--Froogle is a search for products, not for services. Glad you like it! I figure it's nice to be here when people have questions. Also, if I answer another 40 questions or so, I'll hit 700 posts. Woohoo! GoogleGuy is gonna be an oldtimer. :)

[edited by: GoogleGuy at 5:45 am (utc) on Dec. 12, 2002]

Slud




msg:1530790
 5:44 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Froggle=Killer app.

EliteWeb




msg:1530791
 5:51 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

The information contained within the database of Froogle searches what determines if its included? Price of product, a order button? A few of my sites are already in the Froogle db :P will we see a seperate bot for this to get freshness or will it be our same beloved googlebot?

One site I see has a keyword mentioned also has a dollar value on their page but its for soemthing else, however the price is displayed in the search :) heheh a 275.00 item says google which cost 3.00 on the site :P

BTW I love this site, I see many good advantages too it, I can still do some frugal xmas shopping :P

GoogleGuy




msg:1530792
 6:00 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

frugal is good, EliteWeb. :) You could drop an email to froogle-support if you see a glitch; we always want to improve our code to parse and understand pages.

Um, I don't know about the user agent. I think it's the standard Googlebot right now, and I would assume that it would still be that. I'll let folks know if I find out differently though.

dvduval




msg:1530793
 6:06 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Googleguy,

Due to your activity tonight, I hope to ask this question and find the answer:

Miva is one of the largest shopping applications around, yet Google (and Froogle) does not seem to list pages for individual products. Will this likely change? What can I do to be proactive?

It seems that this question is more important than ever with the rise of Froogle (love the name ;) )

[edited by: dvduval at 6:07 am (utc) on Dec. 12, 2002]

willybfriendly




msg:1530794
 6:07 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Algo is pretty weak on niche terms. I was surprised to be presented with men's girdles when I was looking for something totally unrelated. Good for a laugh. Can't quite figure out what chess and rugby have in common either.

On the other hand, the depth of return on a specific type of textile was quite impressive. Much more relevant than the normal Google results.

Will watch the development of this one very closely.

zechariah




msg:1530795
 6:15 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

Great stuff GG, but when i did a single search for " pumps " guess what I got? - ladies shoes , ladies shoes & ladies shoes. What's that got to do with it? To improve I think Big G should list out a side menu related to the search term which one can narrow down to what they might want,- like Teoma? Well just a thought.. :)

[edited by: zechariah at 6:25 am (utc) on Dec. 12, 2002]

GoogleGuy




msg:1530796
 6:18 am on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

dvduval, we're getting better at crawling dynamic sites, but I would recommend writing a letter or two to Miva and asking them to make more search-engine friendly pages. If we don't crawl those pages well, I'm guessing that most search engines don't crawl them well either.

In the meantime, if someone can post a few examples of urls using Miva, I'll ask our crawl ops group whether we can try to do better on those types of pages.

Hope that helps,
GoogleGuy

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