|Surely Joe Cole's goal, lst night, has to be goal of the tournament so far. Even the Brazillians would be proud of that one. |
Second only to the Argentinians 27 pass 9 man wonder goal against serbia montenegro.
I think it's certainly the best I have seen but I am afraid that England's overall performance was woeful again. These are the guys we were all told were superstars and "World Class" before they went over to Germany.
I cannot understand why the commentators continually look forward to "who we will be playing in the quarters/semis/final". While they are playing as they are and now without Michael Owen this is surely tempting fate.
Incidentally I had to laugh last night when Sweden equalised for the second time. The ITV commentator said something along the lines of. "What have we got to do to beat Sweden". He also implied that they were just a team of journeymen "playing to their strengths". This was despite the fact that Sweden controlled much of the game, were a much better team than England on the night, created more chances and truthfully, were very unlucky to lose.
Clearly commentators are entitled to support the home team but I thought they were supposed to provide intelligent, reasoned commentary?
<sighs>It's a shame, don't you think, BDW, that in Scotland they can only grow sour grapes...</sighs>
|27 pass 9 man wonder goal |
That's what makes a truly great goal - when a number of players is involved and the opposition is completely outmanoeuvred. A long shot one-man goal can be spectacular but usually involves a degree of luck, as the high number of missed shots shows.
|<sighs>It's a shame, don't you think, BDW, that in Scotland they can only grow sour grapes...</sighs> |
Perhaps or perhaps its the balanced view of a fan from a non-participating country who is subject to the same TV and media information as the English fans. Perhaps we can actually see it like it is.
You have to remember that we in Scotland are also served up this cr@p by the telly and the newspapers. Ask any Scot, it is the media who turn Scottish fans against England. For most of the time you will hear Scots talking in appreciation of guys like Beckham, Gerrard, Rooney and premiership football in general. We know how good they are and to be perfectly frank we wish they were playing for us.
We know good players when we see them and we can appreciate them. The problem arises as soon as England are involved and the media start telling everyone that they are the best team in the world and that they are going to win the world cup. They have been telling us this since 1966 (apart from the years they didn't qualify).
Oh no! Did someone mention 1966 again? :(
Actually, to further illustrate my point I watched your English cup final in a pub in Maidenhead with two L'pool fans this year and I thoroughly enjoyed both the match and the commentary, but then it was reasonably balanced and non hysterical.
And BTW, it's much too cold to grow any kind of grapes in Scotland ;)
Did you say 1066 or 1966 - lol.
Does anyone know why Sven took Theo Walcott- I agree the English have played badly since the start but got just a little better in their last game against Sweden.
Ecuador will be a serious test and their last game against Germany has nothing to do with it as I think they wanted to finish second in the group.
The Holland v Argentina game was a non event, but tonight's games should be exciting as all the groups are quite open still. Group E is amazingly tight and the last team - the US could still qualify.
Wonder if Bush will go and watch as he is/was in Europe.
|The Holland v Argentina game was a non event |
Indeed. Holland has a weak team, and Argentina wasn't very hungry. It really was a shame, as their previous World Cup encounters were quite interesting:
1974: Holland 4 - 0 Argentina
1978: Holland 1 - 3 Argentina (Videla happy)
1998: Holland 2 - 1 Argentina (Bergkamp goal)
2006: Holland 0 - 0 Argentina.
Why do you think Holland have a weak team. I think they have looked very strong this competition it was just neither teams last night had anything to play for.
Unlike tonight where there is everything to play for for every team.
Damn...I need sleep. There is a guy here in Thailand that died from drinking too much coffee to keep himself awake for all the matches.
The Argentina vs Holland match was understandably a non-event but that didn't stop the commentator and pundits hyping it up, particularly at half-time - this has got to be one of the worst World Cups for commentary and punditry in the UK.
Seems a lot of the time, they've made their mind up about teams before a ball is kicked and then spend 90 minutes justifying their opinions.
All African teams are naive.
Brazil are only playing at 60% and will step up when they need to.
David Beckham's deliveries warrant a place in the side.
Owen always comes good in big tournaments.
So and so played 5 minutes as a substitute for Southampton in the early ninties so knows all about English football.
Lampard must be playing well as he's had more shots than any other player in the World Cup - and that's a FIFA statistic viewers
etc etc etc blah blah blah
Can't we just have commentators neutrally comment on the game and pundits adding their professional insight rather than crass carry on puns (Serbia & Montenegro - S&M - ooooohhh matron)and self satisified indulgence.
I thought both Holland and Argentina looked good last night. It wouldn't surprise me if either of them won the tournament.
The English media are biased? Never! They're very a very balanced group of people. They publish stuff like this:
England will win the world Cup because ...
1966 - England top their group (containing 1 South American, 1 Central American and 1 European team) with 2 wins and a draw, without exactly setting the world alight.
2006 - England top their group (containing 1 South American, 1 Caribbean and 1 European team) with 2 wins and a draw, while playing absolute pants.
1966 - England draw a South American team in the second round.
2006 - England draw a South American team in the second round (although, in fairness, Ecuador are slightly less intimidating than Argentina)
1966 - Once past the South Americans, England play Portugal.
2006 - If results go right (ie Portugal top their group and win their second round match), England play Portugal.
1966 - England play West Germany in the final
2006 - If both teams win all their knockout games, England will not meet Germany till the final.
1966 - England lose their top goalscorer through injury, a Liverpool target man is playing up front, Brazil's top player doesn't perform, the top scorer is a German.
2006 - England lose their top goalscorer through injury, a Liverpool target man is playing up front, Brazil's top player doesn't perform, the top scorer (so far) is a German.
so the rest of the world might as well give up now and go home :)
You see Syzygy! Even English people are starting to agree with me ;)
Terry Butcher on the Sweden game ...
"People may point at Eriksson's caution, but the players have to take responsibility that they have once again failed to win a game they should have done."
Was I watching the same match?
|I thought both Holland and Argentina looked good last night. It wouldn't surprise me if either of them won the tournament. |
Agree, I am pretty sure that Argentina will make it question is who will they be against.
Currently my prediction is?Italy? (if they get in the next rounds!) v Argentina and England v Brazil for the semis.
I think the TV companies should give viewers a choice. Just listen to the crowd while watching or watch and listen to the drivel that comes out no matter what language it is in.
|Was I watching the same match? |
I would agree for once with Butcher. England should have won that match, but for some reason, they sat back especially after the Gerrard goal and then defended pathetically.
The Swedes almost through the ball into the net for their second goal!
BDD you have to understand that most of the commentators are ex-england players. how can you expect them to be neutral? they care passionately about their country's team as do most of the english viewers. it's a form of self-feeding hysteria which all true football supporters thrive on.
the injustice is that the bbc is biased towards the english. as an englishman i enjoy the coverage of england games and empathise with the pundits. i expected england to beat sweden but at the end of the day we weren't good enough. if we had played to our potential i believe we could have beaten them, i think that is what terry butcher was trying say.
perhaps each of the home nations should have a separate team of presenters and pundits, then we could see what you have to put up with.
Holland's weak points:
* they loose the ball too often. I don't see them keeping the ball like Argentina did against Serbia (but maybe I'm asking too much).
* they cannot dominate the way Van Basten wants them to
* Van Nistelrooy is out of shape
* Van Persie and Robben play well on the wings but easliy get irritated / dive (Robben) and tend to be selfish.
They played well against Serbia and the Elfenbeinküste (German can be such a lovely language ;)), but only for maybe 20 minutes.
Just my humble opinion, of course! I do look forward to sunday's match against Portugal. I hope Holland gets revenge for the Euro 2004 loss.
|ThomasB gave me 50:1 on the US winning. So go US! :-D |
Jake, I happily accept cash ... ;)
Ronaldo is back--sort off. Lazy but effective ;)
Ronaldo looked awful. If you don't put the ball on his feet or head then forget it because he isn't going to run.
They may just about be able to carry him for the Ghana game but after that they will need 11 fit and motivated players.
|If you don't put the ball on his feet or head then forget it because he isn't going to run. |
He still seems to be in the right place at the right time most of the time though. And when he does get the ball to his head or his feet, he does the business.
I agree it's a shame to see someone on the pitch that really doesn't look like they're into it though. Personally I'd rather give a chance to someone who actually cared and wanted to play.
I guess him being picked was purely down to the manager not getting attacked by fans for not picking him.
He looks like if he runs too much he'd have a heart attack.
|I guess him being picked was purely down to the manager not getting attacked by fans for not picking him. |
... or the sponsors ;)
Anyone see the brazil / Japan game last night? I thought it was a lot better than past brazil games and was fun to watch - feel sorry for the fat guy but atleast he did put the ball in the back of the net...
|feel sorry for the fat guy |
LOL, OK well summed up. I guess we were all being a bit too diplomatic ;)
For the sake of the non-soccer fans, could somebody do a quick summary of
1) Which teams/countries have been eliminated ..
2) Which are still in the running, or at least how many,
3) How long this will all take before the finals matches? -Larry
haha... rj87uk - that was funny. TJ, I wouldn't say that Ronaldo doesn't want to play, he's just overweight. But I think he missed a brilliant cross, he should have just slid into the ball and it would have been another goal. Felt sorry for Japan's goalkeeper, his first half was much better.
Call that skill and experience. Last 16 is going to be exciting... Ghana qualifying is quite an upset, don't you think?
|right place at the right time most of the time |
I can't disagree with you more BeeDeeDubbleU.
If you believe Sweden outplayed England in open play you are sadly mistaken. Sweden only created anything from set pieces, which in part was due to woeful english defending.
It's quite obvious England will not win anything playing as they are, but to suggest your unbiased in this argument is a joke. The vast % of fans from the other home nations are always desperate for England to lose.
Facts are Alan Hanson is Scottish, never usually hypes the English team, but this year acknowledged the fact England do have about the best team player for player in the tournament.
|I wouldn't say that Ronaldo doesn't want to play, he's just overweight. |
I kind of see the two hand in hand.... if you're a professional sports person, and you really want to play and really want to do well (win) you ensure that you're in good physical shape. Lack of dedication to me spells lack of interest in playing (or lack of interest in winning, which is the same thing at this level - I've never known a top level sports person who didn't hate losing).
|Call that skill and experience. |
I agree, but as one of the commentators said last night:-
"If skill and experience is what you want, put Pele on!".
Physical fitness is really important at this level.
|Ghana qualifying is quite an upset, don't you think? |
Yup, definitely. I agree though, knockout stages look set to be really good spectator material.
[edited by: trillianjedi at 11:45 am (utc) on June 23, 2006]
larryhatch - next round of games & countries still remaining:
Germany vs Sweden
Argentina vs Mexico
England vs Ecuador
Portugal vs Holland
Italy vs Australia
Winner Group G vs Runner up Group H
Brazil vs Ghana
Winner Group H vs Runner up Group G
Still in the running? Well, technically they all are. My money's on Brazil - or maybe Argentina. Then again Germany, Portugal and Holland could be in the running. Oh, and then there's England...
Courtesy of the BBC, here's a schedule [news.bbc.co.uk]
When does it finish? The final is on Sunday 9th July...
My World Cup Fantasy Football Team is now ranked 178,136 overall, and 18 out of 20 in the inter-office tournament. Anyone want any tips on teams and in form players - I'm your man ;-)
|For the sake of the non-soccer fans, could somebody do a quick summary ... |
Larry see [fifaworldcup.yahoo.com...] They do it better than any of us.
Mike I thought you were serious until I saw this ...
|Facts are Alan Hanson is Scottish, never usually hypes the English team, but this year acknowledged the fact England do have about the best team player for player in the tournament. |
What are you smoking, this is a wind up, right? As I have already acknowledged you do have some good players but don't get carried away with it and don't listen to what Alan Hansen tells you. Do you think we sent him down there by accident?
BTW I don't think Alan Hansen is Scottish any longer. If you listen closely you will hear him referring to "we" in relation to the England Team. ;)
lol that is true about Alan. :)
But I think Martin O'Neill is good and unbiased.
I think Ronaldo got hit with the late 20's - 30's bug: his metabolism has slowed down. However, he is a freakig soccer player and he is supposed to burn it out. Wayne Rooney seems much fatter to me, yet manages to play a great game.
Ronaldo seems to have no motivation at all, maybe because it's a just a depression period he is going through and will get over it soon. I wonder if he runs during practice at all. You could see that by the end of the game he didn't even want the ball.
Either way though, he still can score, and if he keeps it up he will be fine; one goal a game and he more than carries his own weight (no pun intented). That's the beauty of being a good finisher: you can sit there all day, take all that abuse from fans, but if you score on the last minute, you're a hero :)
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