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Adwords=Adsense Income?
do dollars invested in adwords return adsense dollars?
johnnylowes




msg:1391136
 2:58 pm on Oct 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Here is a trend I have seen over the last 3 months. Maybe some veterans could give some insight. I have been operating my site for about 1 year. 95% of my income is from adsense. I started using adwords about 6 months ago to drive some traffic to my site.

What i have found is that I can get 3 times the adwords expense in Adsense income. For example if i spend $100.00 month in adwords, I make $300.00 in Adsense. Last month I spent aprx. $250.00 in adwords and made almost $700.00 in adsense.

Now, has anyone taken that to the next level. If you have an untapped market could you simply keep pumping money into adwords and keep getting the same kind of return? Could I spend $1,000 dollars on adwords and get a $3,000 adsense return?

 

ember




msg:1391137
 3:03 pm on Oct 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

The only way to know is to try it. Extrapolation like that doesn't always work. Just like adding more pages and content doesn't always work because often as you add pages, your CTR decreases. A lot of this is just trial and error. You can keep upping your AdWords budget, but I'd do it slowly and keep a close eye on ROI.

donovanh




msg:1391138
 3:38 pm on Oct 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

You may also just end up paying more for the same clicks if you simply increase your budget. You might want to try to diversity your advertising while maintaining the same kind of conversion price..

dollarshort




msg:1391139
 3:41 pm on Oct 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm having some good results with adwords and looking to expand as I get more data, I have a $10 a day limit on max .05 per click. ROI is about 60%. Have to babysit it though.

Frequent




msg:1391140
 3:54 pm on Oct 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

I did a small experiment along these lines about 1-2 months ago. Although it turned out to be "break even" for my particular niche dollarwise, it did provide some knowledge.

1) Visitors who clicked on an adwords ad to come to your site are far more likely to click on an adwords ad to leave it.

2) Even if it doesn't generate profit (at least not much and not right away for me) it does help to boost your CTR possibly helping your click value over time.

I plan to try it again this winter when I have more eyes at my disposal.

Freq---

johnnylowes




msg:1391141
 3:31 am on Oct 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the replys. Looks like it is continueing
today...$9.00 adwords expense, $24.00 adsense earnings.

burntan




msg:1391142
 3:49 am on Oct 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

That depand on the type of ads display on your site, if it is highly related ads, the CTR will be high. However I do agree that visitors come from your Adwords compaigne are more likely to leave with a Adsense click.

Another factor affecting the success of this method is eCPM and Smart Pricing. Last time I have this site promoting with Adwords I have a loss, cause the visitor click on my 5 cents bid Adwords to come but leave with a 2 cents click on Adsense.

MediaSpree




msg:1391143
 4:21 am on Oct 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have been doing the adwords to adsense model profitably for awhile now...the problem is google can't fufill my daily budget! So while I spend 10 dollars and make 20 per day, (great return on investment) even if I up my spending to $100 I still only end up spending $10 a day :(

Powdork




msg:1391144
 7:36 am on Oct 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

It depends on what is currently limiting your spend. Is it because you are bumping up against your daily or monthly budgets? Or is it because you are getting as much traffic as you can at current cpc? If it is the former, you may be able to extrapolate until you reach the latter. I say 'may', because it doesn't matter unless your additional traffic places no noticeable pressure on the advertisers budgets. In terms of clicks, it is easier for me to pause or adjust all my Adwords campaigns than it is for me to view stats from two days ago in adsense. If I notice the money flowing out too fast (and I check those stats religiously too) I make an adjustment immediately and many times its a full stop.
Which is also the reason that jumps in traffic or search engine rankings don't always bring the windfall one would expect. Google makes it very easy for us to limit our advertising spend and it definitely has an aggregate effect.

con771




msg:1391145
 12:56 pm on Oct 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Over the last couple of weeks I have been thinking about trying this as well. Could you please explain a little more about this model. How did you choose your keywords and how many are you using?
What is your click through rate now after using adwords to drive traffic and get more adsense clicks?

DamonHD




msg:1391146
 1:08 pm on Oct 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi,

In an efficient, well-informed, low-friction market, as the AS/AW market probably nearly is, opportunities for arbitrage, which is what most of this is, while legitimate, quickly drop in value.

When I started working in derivatives (IT) 10 years ago a simple swap could just about earn a profit of 1%; now it is probably 100th of that (1 basis point) because of a more liquid and informed market.

The more players that enter the market, such as YPN, M$, etc, with good stats and real-time controls, the smaller that the arbitrage opportunities will be.

Rgds

Damon

jimilives




msg:1391147
 3:01 pm on Oct 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am not sure if that last dude was trying out for a position on Msnbc as a financial commentator or what, but what a bunch of crap that means nothing. At least get your lingo right.

Adwords to adsense does return profit if you do it right, I dont care how "liquid" you think the market is, it can be liquid gold if done right.

MediaSpree




msg:1391148
 3:07 pm on Oct 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Luckily in my niche I am able to bid low, average 3 cents per click and still show up on the front page. The clicks on the other side value between 10-30 cents and I have a near 20% CTR. and no I'm not a scraper ;)

europeforvisitors




msg:1391149
 3:11 pm on Oct 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

jimlives, I think you've missed the point. DamonHD wasn't talking about what works today; he's talking about how it's likely to work three months or six months or a year from now. Don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like, agree with, or fully understand the message.

johnnylowes




msg:1391150
 1:50 pm on Oct 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, all I know is that it has worked for another week so I am sticking with it. I realize I need at least 2-3 months to show an actuall trend here. For the week I spent $47 in adwords and had $139 in adsense revenue.

ArtistMike




msg:1391151
 8:24 pm on Oct 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the replys. Looks like it is continueing
today...$9.00 adwords expense, $24.00 adsense earnings.

============================

What do you make without AdWords?

DamonHD




msg:1391152
 8:27 pm on Oct 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Kewl!

EFV is right (as so often!). I wasn't saying that it can't be done or that you shouldn't necessarily do it, but that if AS and AW behave like other intensively-studied and traded markets, it'll become harder to make easy money this way.

Rgds

Damon

dj_webm




msg:1391153
 9:03 pm on Oct 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

this model is simple: say you have a website with adsense ads showing on keyword say widgets, and you get say 50c per click on your adsense ads.

So you create adwords campaign, and now comes the tricky part: you have to choose keywords relative to your website to drive traffic in, but they should cost 5-10c per click to get some profit in the end (you cant obviosly use keyword widgets because you will be paying nearly $1 for a click, and keep in mind what is your clicktrough on your adsence to make profit). So you try, you search, you think, you drink - and in the end you have a list of keywords like blue widgets, widgets for women and so on and whoalia :)

johnnylowes




msg:1391154
 1:40 am on Oct 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

Did a little experimenting this week. Barely broke even with increased investment in adwords dollars for one set of keywords. However, continued to slightly increase adword investment on my best set of keywords and continued to see increase in adsense income. For the week I spent $90.00 in adwords and saw adsense income of $210.00. Live and learn.
Next week I am putting all adwords dollars into my best set of keywords and hope to get back to getting a return of 3x the investment in adsense dollars.

johnnylowes




msg:1391155
 1:45 am on Oct 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

...my ctr rate stayed about the same at just under 10%.

hanuman




msg:1391156
 5:45 am on Oct 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

johnnylowes

what is your adsense income without the adwords?

Powdork




msg:1391157
 5:47 am on Oct 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

How are you defining your best keywords? By adwords click thrus? adsense ecpm, adsense cpc?

david_uk




msg:1391158
 6:19 am on Oct 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

I did try it recently, but only broke even. My ctr to the ads remained stable, and I think I ended up buying approx. 5 cheap clicks in for each expensive click out. I will probably have another go at some point having learned a few lessons.

The things I learned were:-

a) The scrapers that buy clicks are very good at writing ads that encourage clicks - a skill I don't posses.

b) If you have a lot of good content that the visitor is interested in then they are much more likely to stay and read the content than click the ads.

c) By blocking all MFA sites I no longer see the sexy ads that encourage click outs and have high click out rates! Lets face it - a lot of the small businesses that use adwords are as good at writing sexy ads as I am!

d) If your site is showing in the top few of a Google search, and your ad is in the right column, then you are probably wasting your ad spend / not going to get too many clicks. I did try to diversify to relevant areas and that worked better.

For me, I would have liked it to work, but the ultimate goal of my site is to continue to be the number 1 information site in my small niche. I obviously want people to click the ads at some point, but it's the content that I really want people to see. After all, that's why I occupy one of the top slots in the first place!

johnnylowes




msg:1391159
 10:33 pm on Oct 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

income without adsense is nothing. usually less than $10.00 a month.

johnnylowes




msg:1391160
 10:37 pm on Oct 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

my best keywords i simply define as the group i get the most adwords clicks on. my site has one main theme with 5 sub-themes that are all related to the main theme.
luckily, my keywords are only .04-.10 cents, but my adsense ads that show on my site are paying .20-.60 cents.

sailorjwd




msg:1391161
 2:09 am on Oct 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've been doing it since Feb 2.

It takes a lot of work on the adwords side. There is so much to learn about how to get your minimum bids down. What I've found - if you know the techniques, you can get keywords that currently require 20c down to 5c min bid. Once you get a lot of your keywords to that level then you have a chance.

You can't do it very well with only one topic - much easier with dozens. I've got about 60 different topics. Also using about 60,000 keywords presently.

How much would you spend in adwords to make $100 or $1000 per day in adsense? It can take a strong stomach and a good credit rating.

EFV is only theorizing this time. He hates arbitrage people.

ps. it is 50% easier using YPN.

danny




msg:1391162
 5:42 am on Oct 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've only just started using AdWords. I have no expectation of making an immediate profit, but rather aim to spread the word about some of my resources and to build long-term visibility.

centix




msg:1391163
 1:05 pm on Oct 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

I often thought to do the same but how can you understand what's the adsense income generated by the adwords campaign. Do you compare one week with adwords and the following one without? is it enough to have meaningful data?

A good practice is to calculate the average income per click of the adsense programm and then to set the cpc of adwords to the same level (to get known and to increase the general website's traffic for free) or a bit lower (to get the profit from the CPC difference between the two programms)

fischermx




msg:1391164
 3:09 pm on Oct 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

I want to share these numbers.
I've found that 33% of the people I send to my site via adwords will likely click an ad.
My site gets an average of $0.20-$0.30 a click.
My adwords spending is like $0.03-$0.05 a click.
Now, do the math. If one every three users click an ad, that's mean, an expense of maximum $0.10-$0.15 will be required to have a click of $0.20-$0.30. I have arround 150% ROI with this technique on one of my sites.

So, the variables you have to play with are :
1.- Adwords click vs adsense clicks ratio : how often your visitors arriving from adwords clicks your adsense ads.
2.- Your average CPC, the lower the better.
3.- Your average EPC, the higher the better.

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