| 3:12 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Interesting. The other day I had exactly the same feeling. One of the reasons may be that we've seen a lot of new members recently who are not used to forum culture (let alone to this forum's excellent culture). They are obviously attracted by the AS program and want to get rich quick. Plus, they seem to think that we (the WW members) have to answer their questions, just as if we were employed by Google. Also I often find their posts not well enough thought-through, and sometimes even hard to understand ("U c wot I meen wen I writ lik tis!")...
Maybe we should put up a sticky with a short introduction how the AS forum in run?
| 3:24 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
C'mon guys. Judging other people's posts as 'not intellectual' will not be fair, because all people are different, and there's really no effective way to do so. In fact, someone can say that a post that misspells Jenstar's name, or the words 'losing' and 'quality', are 'scrappy' too. For me, it should be 'live' and 'let live.' I have, in fact, learned quite a number of Adsense 'secrets' from people here whose first language is definitely not english.
| 3:31 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
though it's fine to make a statement about quality or lack there of
what suggestions might you have to address the issues you see?
| 3:39 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
While it's nice to have correct spelling or punctuation on a post, I would rather keep the proof reading to my own copy.
The best in the business post in this forum and site. If you don't like it you can always complain elsewhere.
Like the jatar_k suggested, be a little more solution orientated. It will make the world of difference.
| 3:58 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
This is meant to be an open forum.
Just skip the threads that you are not interested in
There is a ton of GOLD here. It just takes some time
| 4:00 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Of course, you can always ignore those posts where the subject suggests that the post is of no interest (you know the ones that say "I've been banned" etc).
Sorry howiejs, I missed your post while composing mine.
| 4:04 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Also be sure to visit the many other excellent forums here at WW. Any thread about things like traffic building or search engine placement that's started here in the AdSense forum will probably be from a relative newbie for whom AdSense is the beginning and end of the universe.
Such threads will get much more thoughtful responses when posted in the appropriate fora (plural of forum; just thought I'd throw that word in to be a jerk).
| 6:41 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|Just skip the threads that you are not interested in |
No problem doing that, but when the number of posts that kinda look like trolls ("Google cancel me after I was making $300/day, and I only click on my ad in the morning -- not all day!") gets to be a seriously annoying percentage, then it becomes easier to skip the forum than to skip the threads.
But that's ultimately the moderator's problem, I reckon.
| 6:58 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
But here as newbie i have found nearly answers of my every question.
Thanks WW Adsense members.
But here are few things which are irritating to me.
1)look history of all of my threads and posts.
2)Same (1) detail of other friends.
3)Cannot search in all the threads of forum.
** Certainly i will get the answer.
| 7:08 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
jatar_k said >> though it's fine to make a statement about quality or lack there of what suggestions might you have to address the issues you see?
1)Get rid of the very tacky 'I made $ posts'. And I do think the operative word is tacky. IMHO
2)Absolutely no 'Where's my check'. No exceptions at all.
3)No 'My AdSense revenue is droppin' so AdSense sucks.
But perhaps we should visit what IS helpful, in another thread. This is my point, helpful is helpful and repetitive chatter is just chatter. I spend almost no time here because of it and really want to see the quality upgraded.
| 7:13 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I have also been a poster of some not so elegant posts especially in the case of troll threads as it soon becomes obvious to everyone who needs real help and who is yanking our collective chain.
Those posters are very transparent to folks with at least three or more brain cells to rub together.
Personally I think the 'scrapers' and the liars should go out and scrape their own forum and then they would all have a place to P-- and moan with others who can be sympathetic to their problems and post appropriately to their I got banned posts...
| 7:15 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|1)Get rid of the very tacky 'I made $ posts'. And I do think the operative word is tacky. IMHO |
But these are very inspirational posts. When there is a thread like this, you see three types of responses: (a) Congratulations; (b) You're my inspiration; and (c) How the heck did you do it? (and if you don't spill, it means you're bluffing)
|2)Absolutely no 'Where's my check'. No exceptions at all. |
But I wanna know if I'm the only one from my part of the world who has not received it. It hurts to think that others have already kissed their checks while I am still wondering if my postman took it.
|3)No 'My AdSense revenue is droppin' so AdSense sucks. |
But my revenues are dropping! And I wanna know if the rest of the world, too. And if my revenues are dropping, and the second poster's also dropping, and the third and the fourth ... then Google must be cutting our share of the pie! It's a conspiracy!
| 7:33 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I for one am waiting on some quality questions.
How many times do you think the same forum members are going to type the same quality responses over and over and over just because others are too lazy to look up the answers?
Surely I can't be the only person that uses Google to mine WW for information as there's a ton of it here that covers every aspect of AdSense unless you're just lazy or can't use search to save your life.
If you get right down to it, there isn't much to discuss about AdSense as it's pretty limited to:
1) installing the AdSense code
2) optimizing the AdSense code for your site
3) setting up channels
4) checking your results
5) prices paid per click and smart pricing
6) getting checks from Google
I've read many quality posts on these topics so the quality posts still exist, look them up, they are there. How much can you honestly say about those 6 things that doesn't quickly devolve into beating a dead horse with a stick and bore the pants off everyone?
The rest of the posts are people asking us to read and interpret the Google rules for them and tell them if something is allowed or not like they couldn't read it themselves.
Personally, I don't think there's been anything interesting posted since the last Google update and that flurry of discussion only lasted about 2 days.
| 8:16 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I agree, the forum ain't what it used to be.
I like Jon_King's list, especially the "where's my check" posts, but I would add "why haven't the stats updated for 30 minutes?" and "Tuesday was a bad day, so AdSense must be falling apart".
Could there be an offshoot forum, somewhere for all these posts? I think Bill's right: back to the basics.
| 9:30 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
One of the things that might improve the AdSense forum is to introduce pre-moderation, just like in the Google News forum. The AdSense forum is seeing a constant stream of new threads which only last for 5 or 10 posts and then move to page 2 because so many new threads already started. It is hard to start a dicsussion and keep it going, because if for some hours people don't post to a thread, it moves to the second page which causes a quick death.
With pre-moderation posters are pushed to post in an existing thread about the same topic rather than spawn a new one. Threads will be longer and more interesting for people to read. This shouldn't be too difficult looking at Bill's list of 6 main topics. Pre-moderation also has the advantage that the most annoying subjects (banned from AdSense, CTR up/down, payment in progress, check received, etc.) can be filtered out before they reach the open.
| 10:13 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|1) installing the AdSense code |
2) optimizing the AdSense code for your site
3) setting up channels
4) checking your results
5) prices paid per click and smart pricing
6) getting checks from Google
I think this list could be quite a bit larger and no discussion should be limited like this. There are subjects like TOS which need to be explored since there is some grey area. Webmasters(smart ones anyway) will want to know in advance whether or not something is in compliance. Or if someone has been booted they may want to know why. Yes, they will deny wrongdoing but this is a good place to find out how badly they blew it. This is also a good place to discuss what's ahead, what's happening and what has happened regarding all things AdSense.
All that and things we haven't even thought of yet.
| 10:23 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Well, I'm a newbie, but can't be completely to blame as I only just joined in August :P
I do ask questions, but doesn't that help, as other newbies can read the answers and learn? If I thought this forum was for advanced webmasters only, I don't think I would have joined.
Sure I enjoy the more 'intellecutal' posts, but if I've got a simple question it's nice to get an answer from those with experience. And from some threads I've seen, a simple discussion sometimes evolves into something more 'intellectual'.
Perhaps there should be another forum, one for "newbies" and one for more advanced AS webmasters?
| 10:32 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|I think this list could be quite a bit larger and no discussion should be limited like this. |
Who said it should be limited?
I just said those are the basic topics and they've been beaten to death over and over, unless Google makes some sweeping changes not a lot new to learn about anything on that list.
|There are subjects like TOS which need to be explored since there is some grey area |
Gray area questions would be most welcome!
Mostly we get questions about things explicity identified in the TOS, which indicates people simply don't read.
|Perhaps there should be another forum, one for "newbies" and one for more advanced AS webmasters? |
Well read newbies I have no problem with, they ask intelligent questions.
How about a forum for those too lazy to read on their own vs. everyone else.
| 11:41 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Well do have to agree that the ability of world wide mail services became redundant when google revised the control panel to show when they had processed the cheque:) Still some of the early discussions about this were great including the google is going bankrupt one...lol
That said there are still many gems within the posts such as the recently complted image use one. One thing I have noticed is that some of the humor has disappeared from the threads...some pouncing and quoting of the tOS. Discussions of the grey items as bill calls them have started to be cut off by the continuous TOS posts. Exploring these areas are perhaps higher risk but interpetations of the TOS are just that by members. The flagrant ones such as I clicked my ads posts should be cut off and topic closed,,,,we really don't need or want 50 posts jumping on the poor soul who didn't read.
Just some thoughts from the bleachers:):)
| 11:58 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Just off the top of my head, how about these advanced topics for discussion:
--What exactly is "optimization"?
--Local optimization vs. global optimization
--How do you conduct a controlled experiment?
--How do you conduct a binary test?
--How do you tell a trend from a statistical fluke?
--What to do when your stats are so low as to be overwhelmed by statistical noise?
--How do you account for time lags (in many different areas of Adsense)?
--The finer points of section targeting
--The finer points of URL filtering
--The finer points of using channels
--Are users aware of, and negatively influenced by, testing?
--How best to fight ad blindness?
--Using CSS, meta-tags, h1s, etc. to attract high-paying ads
--CTR, eCPM, EPC--which are most relevant and when?
--Adsense coexisting with other affiliate programs (e.g., Amazon.com)--what are the tradeoffs? (How do you promote, say, Amazon.com, without negatively impacting your Adsense clicks and revenues?)
--How useful is it, from an Adsense perspective, to "go over to the Dark Side," to dabble in Adwords? (What insights might be gained from Adwords to help you in your Adsense optimization?)
--How do you know when it's time to admit defeat, that your site is "not a good fit" with Adsense?
--Exactly why is it easier to go from $10/day to $100/day than it is go from $1/day to $10/day?
--And so on...
Just a few of the things that could be meaningfully discussed at greater length in this forum, but are usually ignored, otherwise glossed over, in favor of the usual "noise" and idle chatter.
| 12:17 am on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Good list of topics, all except maybe 2 have been covered over and over again.
If you want to cover some new ground consider at topic like:
* Removing PSAs - unblocking the mediabots stop word list
This is something I've been working on with a high rate of success but it's certainly not a science, total hit and miss.
Google is very mum on this topic, very tight lipped, so don't expect any help from them.
| 12:33 am on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)|
There are different leagues when it come to this Adsense forum. Some are making many thousands per month while others are waiting for their first $100 check(or whatever the min. is now).
Then, we are all drawn into one forum...
| 5:33 am on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|How about a forum for those too lazy to read on their own vs. everyone else. |
Or WW could have a quiz that you have to test in order to post. It might include conducting simple searches for questions that have been answered hundreds of times. You get a "laziness ranking" and if it's too high you aren't allowed to post :D
| 6:19 am on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|Some are making many thousands per month while others are waiting for their first $100 check(or whatever the min. is now). Then, we are all drawn into one forum... |
Many of those who now earn thousands per month started with hoping for their first $1.00 day. Splitting the forum based on income wouldn't be good. Some with only a few dollars per day earnings can compose very intelligent posts. Asking the right question is often just as important as giving the right answer to create an interesting thread.
For those that are totally new to AdSense/Webmastering, there is a general newbie forum on WebmasterWorld. Another newbie forum for AdSense only wouldn't ne necessary IMO.
| 6:49 am on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|How can we improve the AdSense Forum? |
| 10:00 am on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|Good list of topics, all except maybe 2 have been covered over and over again. |
"Covered over and over again" as in: glibly, in a shallow manner, at a superficial level.
Perhaps I should have emphasized: "Just a few of the things that are ... glossed over..."
|If you want to cover some new ground... |
Covering new ground is great. What I'd like to see is covering old ground (and some not so old) in a more meaningful way. Some of the suggested topics are deeper than many people imagine.
"Noise" and idle chatter have their place. It's usually easy to spot them from the thread headers, avoiding them is not difficult.
We don't need less noise so much as we need more signal. Not fewer gossipy posts, but more threads discussing complex topics at greater length, systematically, in a truly meaningful way.
I don't hold my breath that it's going to happen, though, given (a) human nature, (b) the limits of on-line communication, and (c) the rules of this forum, also Google's TOS, which inhibit our discussing specifics.
Personally, I'd rather spend my time discussing weighty subjects "over and over again" than bragging about my last month's earnings, moaning about drops in eCPM, scolding/scorning publishers dropped from the Adsense program, etc., etc.
But that's just me.
| 10:20 am on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I think the best way to improve this forum is to get rid of all the arrogant posters who think they're too good to answer questions.
| 10:39 am on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)|
We all really like this forum, don't we? And I think everyone will agree with me that Jenstar is doing a very good job as a moderator on it?
I do. I couldn't do such a good job as she is.
| 11:11 am on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|I think the best way to improve this forum is to get rid of all the arrogant posters who think they're too good to answer questions |
Well, I don't think that "not answering" is always caused by arrogant behaviour. As we have seen from posts before in this thread, the WW members are not unwilling to answer questions. It's the topics discussed and the way people ask that trigger a good and healthy discussion.
I completely agree with those who complain that the same stuff comes up again and again, and it's hard to see why someone who crafted an excellent reply to a serious question should do this again to the same question in another thread. We all do not have enough time to do this, and the fun factor associated with this is also rather limited.
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