homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 204.236.255.69
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Visit PubCon.com
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: incrediBILL & jatar k & martinibuster

Google AdSense Forum

This 72 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 72 ( 1 [2] 3 > >     
Drastic Earnings Reductions Require Immediate Surgery!
Adsense, you have nearly been terminated...
OptiRex




msg:1414084
 10:12 am on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Ok, so there are those in this forum who have benefited from the new Adsense algo however I suspect there are many, like myself, who have not.

I am not blaming the advertisers, after reading through the Adwords forum they too seem to be up in arms about what has happened.

This buck stops firmly at the Google Adsense desk, they introduced the new system seemingly without any consultation with anyone, they're the ones who have reduced my EPC by 13.5% since the introduction.

This morning I have removed EVERY Adsense and Adlink block from all 100+ sites except for the leaderboard.

If this fails to stop the financial rot then I shall have no alternative but to remove Adsense completely. Just as Google can terminate me at a moment's notice, likewise I can remove them completely for failing to perform which is what is happening.

I know there is no guaranteed income with this program however those supposedly in charge at Adsense ought to realise that their failure to give a reasonable ROI for the publisher's efforts will have serious repercussions unless they get it back under control.

Please, no posts about my earnings and EPC are way up:-)

 

drall




msg:1414114
 4:04 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

YPN may at first be a great thing for publishers but judging from Yahoos other business models I feel fairly confident that Yahoo will stick it to you in the end far worse then anything you may be experiencing with Google.

Not bashing Yahoo in the least but they have a far different business model then Google does and I have seen other faces of this firsthand.

Also I believe that competition will actually hurt publisher revenue far more then it will help.

Simple realworld example would be

Walmart = Google
Target = Yahoo
Customerbase = Adwords/YPN advertisers

Walmart is the only store in town, they may charge there customers more money for items which makes them X profit.

Now Target opens a store across the street, in order to attract customers both stores lower prices which yields each store X less profit then in the prior situation.

Publishers will make less because advertisers are paying less.

webnoob




msg:1414115
 4:12 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

> How would they do that?

well, they would "keep" them by only showing the ads on their search engine and not allowing them to propagate to the content network (us). of course, i am just speculating, but i know if it were me and i had $10 a click ads, would i keep it to myself, or pass it down to u?

remember, those ads on the search engine earn more for google than u make for google because google doesn't have to cut a share for u ..

OptiRex




msg:1414116
 4:14 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Interesting analogy drall however could not they opposite also occur?

A premium/high volume/niche publisher could demand a higher ad click price for moving to another network to justify carrying their ads.

Using your comparison within my own trade is interesting since we do have some excellent low cost products however our biggest sellers bar far, 90%+ in fact, are the premium quality, higher-priced products.

OptiRex




msg:1414117
 4:16 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

well, they would "keep" them by only showing the ads on their search engine and not allowing them to propagate to the content network (us). of course,

Doh! I had a "blonde" moment there...

europeforvisitors




msg:1414118
 4:37 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think drall and OptiRex are both correct. Publisher earnings will depend on the sector, the keyphrase, and the individual advertiser's ROI or lead quality from a given network. Other factors will include "smart pricing" discounts for advertisers and how much control advertisers have over where their ads run.

Overall averages or trends may be of academic interest, but what counts for you and me is what we as individuals or businesses are earning.

drall




msg:1414119
 4:55 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Optirex this will certainly occur, but I will be willing to wager that the overall majority of publishers say 85-90%will see a steep drop in revenue share over the next 1-3 years with the inception of YPN.

Hopefully I am wrong:)

europeforvisitors




msg:1414120
 5:55 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

I will be willing to wager that the overall majority of publishers say 85-90%will see a steep drop in revenue share over the next 1-3 years with the inception of YPN.

Some publishers will see a steep drop in revenue share, but any estimate of how many would be pure speculation.

Also, YPN may have less impact on AdSense publishers than other factors, such as better advertiser controls, an increased number of "site-targeted CPM" advertisers, and other changes to the AdSense program that might occur in the next one to three years.

I do think we'll see online advertising become more like offline advertising, where advertisers pay for the measured or perceived value of the media in which their ads run.

incrediBILL




msg:1414121
 6:50 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

My actual earnings for August were up 6.31% compared to July

HUH?

We have a big long winded thread bashing AdSense because you made MORE money in August and to spite your new found earnings you hacked most of your AdSense off your web site?

I think you have your foil hat wound too tight.

Garfieldt




msg:1414122
 6:52 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Wouldn't google start cutting in it's own profit margin on adwords advertisers first? If they start paying less to publishers, they will run away. if they can't display the adwords ad anywhere besides the serps anymore, their advertisers will run away too. I think, to stay competitive they will have to lower advertising prices, raise publisher prices and counter the loss in revenue by trying to raise their advolumes.

incrediBILL




msg:1414123
 6:54 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

If they start paying less to publishers, they will run away

Actually we'll drive away in the new Mercedes paid for by AdSense

NoLimits




msg:1414124
 7:03 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Garfieldt - Google will not cut their own revenue now that they are trying to impress stock holders.

They would pull an Enron before showing any sings of weakness to investors. Sad, but I feel it's true at this point. (Too many instances of extreme greed showing through as of late on G's behalf)

ronburk




msg:1414125
 7:21 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

I would like the program to work correctly instead of all these continual tweaks, alterations and wild fluctuations which are affecting so many people.

I really don't get this idea that somebody owes a publisher a stable revenue stream. When I was in the magazine business, we had continual tweaks, alterations, and wild fluctuations in our advertising revenue. A big advertiser drops us one month, the sales team has good luck the next month, a big competitor enters the market and temporarily drops our revenues as everybody rushes to give them a try, the budget forces us to change our rate card and causes lots of chaos. We worked real hard to develop at least modest alternative revenue streams that were more stable, because advertising is almost never a highly stable source of income.

If you drop Google and sell all your ads by hand yourself, who will you blame then for fluctuations? 'Cause I guarantee you will get some serious fluctuations. Why would selling ads through Google be any less of a wild and wooly roller coaster ride than selling ads is for paper and ink publishers?

I don't get it.

hunderdown




msg:1414126
 7:24 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Too many instances of extreme greed

Care to mention any of those instances?

And I'm as cynical as the next person, but there is a very real limit to how far Google could reduce payouts to publishers before their would be a real rebellion--by which I mean publishers leaving the program in sizable numbers, not just sounding off at WebmasterWorld.

(And I said "could" because I see no evidence that Google HAS started to cut payouts to publishers yet.)

OptiRex




msg:1414127
 8:06 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

ibill

We have a big long winded thread bashing AdSense because you made MORE money in August and to spite your new found earnings you hacked most of your AdSense off your web site?

Then you obviously have not read or understood what I have written. I wrote that my EPC had been drastically reduced since the introduction of the new Adwords system and that my month's earnings were up 6.31%.

Simple mathematics extrapollating the first 17 days earnings average would have shown a 15.1% increase in earnings had the EPC not fallen in the last 14 days.

A substantial difference I feel sure you would agree and to compound that to extrapollate again the earnings from the last 14 days, assuming similar earnings throughout September, would then predict a 13-14% reduction in earnings compared to August.

No one requires many months like that before it's totally pointless even displaying Adsense.

I really don't get this idea that somebody owes a publisher a stable revenue stream.

And I don't get why it is that every time someone proposes such an idea, an ex-publisher sticks their head over the parapet and says that it's not possible!

Why not?

At the end of the day let's get it quite correct and just look at the vast billions the publishing industry has earned over the years...don't plead poverty to me when the publishing industry has used every excuse in the book to justify its inflated prices and massage its egos!

The publishing industry were willing the Internet to fail since they could see the writing on the wall because, for the first time, advertisers could actually see their genuine return on investment as opposed to theoretical statistics and waffled projections by advisors and so-called consultants.

I still believe that Adsense is a good programme however the Adsense team need to consult with both the advertisers and publishers more and before rolling something out, test it!

europeforvisitors




msg:1414128
 8:40 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

And I don't get why it is that every time someone proposes such an idea, an ex-publisher sticks their head over the parapet and says that it's not possible!

Why not?

Ronburk explained why not. And in the online PPC advertising world, even more volatility should be expected than in the traditional advertising world. Why? Off the top of my head, I can think of several reasons:

- Advertisers don't have long-term contracts.
- The supply of inventory is changing constantly.
- The demand for inventory is changing constantly.
- Pricing is auction-based, which means that PPC ad buyers are more like day traders than traditional media buyers.

incrediBILL




msg:1414129
 9:22 pm on Sep 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Then you obviously have not read or understood what I have written. I wrote that my EPC had been drastically reduced since the introduction of the new Adwords system and that my month's earnings were up 6.31%.

Accusing me of not reading and not understanding is like accusing Pam Anderson of not filling out a sweater.

If you focus too heavily on EPC you'll short ciruit and run screaming into the night as the only valid number IMO is EARNINGS. I've had similar issues like you're describing and my income went UP just like yours, not down. I focused on traffic, optimization, and everything possible to maximize the site conversion and earnings kept going UP while EPC got worse.

Just recently EPC started to go up, nothing substantial, only a couple of cents, but when you get a few extra pennies over thousands of clicks a day it all adds up.

You are right, if my CTR or IMPRESSIONS suddenly drop I'm toast on the west coast, but as it sits they are increasing and I just closed a record month in August.

Simple mathematics extrapollating the first 17 days earnings average would have shown a 15.1% increase in earnings had the EPC not fallen in the last 14 days.

You seem to have the '2 birds in the bush vs the 1 bird in your hand' syndrome.

Simple mathematics also gave me an equal shot at winning the lottery yet the best I've ever been able to get was 5 out of 6 numbers which only paid $1500.

Take the increase in earnings and buy a beer, sheesh.

steve40




msg:1414130
 2:42 am on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

OptiRex

I do understand what you are saying and possibly agree that the changes this time were bad , but from your own statements it appears your traffic has increased is it possible that you are now burning the higher paying advertisers budgets and therefore more of the lower paying adds are appearing and being clicked it is also possible that the same advertiser is running multiple campaigns one at higher cpc with xx budget per day and another that kicks in at a lower cpc

just a thought I believe that is occuring in some industries

i know nothing so just an old fellas ramblings
steve

WallyWorld




msg:1414131
 2:54 am on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just bumped AdSense off a few thousand pages due to progressively poorer EPC. If it doesn't work you get rid of it and try something else. AdSense was designed by Google so there is no sense (or advantage) of loyalty by either party. Today's hero is tomorrow's martyr.

OptiRex




msg:1414132
 3:10 am on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Take the increase in earnings and buy a beer, sheesh.

And there I was believing we'd have a reasonable ale next week when we arrived:-))

However! There's always an however...

If you focus too heavily on EPC you'll short ciruit and run screaming into the night as the only valid number IMO is EARNINGS.

Right...call me the "dumbest-UK-whit" you've ever, ever known...

What is the difference between EPC and Earnings?

If the EPC is falling the overall earnings must be doing so too for the majority of sites with low user increases?

There is not one site in the world which has exponential visitors...grey suits may like to propone this whilst they are in their "suit scenario", however reality will inevitably prove them incorrect! Oh..and where are they now? Trying to prove their grey-suit existence to the next dumb-wit company!

You are right, if my CTR or IMPRESSIONS suddenly drop I'm toast on the west coast, but as it sits they are increasing and I just closed a record month in August.

No disrespect ibill, however what would you do then?

You seem to have the '2 birds in the bush vs the 1 bird in your hand' syndrome.

:-))) I am getting to the point of stopping being philanthropic ibill! I have children who think that 1 mil earnings are nothing however I have to pay for their cell phones but at the same time washing a dish at 22 yrs old is too much to ask!

Arghhhhh...time for a break:-)))

moneyraker




msg:1414133
 3:35 am on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

[...15.1% increase in earnings had the EPC not fallen in the last 14 days....the earnings from the last 14 days... 13-14% reduction]

This is EXACTLY what I experienced too. This only goes to show that not only is there a good month, or a bad month, but there also is a 'goobad' month! The only difference between me and Optirex is I'm not yet considering taking off my ads from any of my pages. After all, August still inched higher than July, and that's good enough for me.

OptiRex




msg:1414134
 3:36 am on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

but from your own statements it appears your traffic has increased

No, my traffic has been consistently stable to the point where I get fed up of reading about gazillion visitors per day.

is it possible that you are now burning the higher paying advertisers budgets

steve40...quite simply no. There is never an endless "pot of gold" and my sites are not designed nor focused to suck every advertising Dollar from my trade.

My company mantra! My sites give everyone within my global trade the opportunity to compete and offer their services at reasonable Adsense cost.

Does anyone have a problem with that?

If you are a tradional media enterprise and have a problem with it...well, then you'd better learn a whole lot rapidly and get into the "new" Internet culture...even my sister has!

mzanzig




msg:1414135
 5:34 am on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

ronburk wrote: "We worked real hard to develop at least modest alternative revenue streams that were more stable, because advertising is almost never a highly stable source of income."

True - advertising is not a stable income, but the analogy is also not very precise. Usually, if my sales team for print ads comes home with less ads than the previous month, I simply print less content in reaction to this (editors bark at this, because they have so much to say). But to the publisher the production cost is lower, and this is what counts. In other words: even if the revenues from advertising vary from month to month, the profitability stays (more or less) the same (except you go from good to zero, then you have zero profitability).

This is where the online world cannot follow: we have fixed cost per visitor. It may be tiny (just a fraction of cents per visitor), but with millions using your site, it still adds up. They will see the content (along with it the ad inventory), and at this point in time they already have generated the cost.

The right analogy would have been a print magazine with ads, where the price for the ads is being determined

- by some external entity
- without talking to the sales team or the publisher
- after the magazine has been read
- following unknown pricing rules

Believe me, every publisher in the traditional media would run away from that faster than you can say "senseless".

Powdork




msg:1414136
 8:28 am on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Simple realworld example would be

Walmart = Google
Target = Yahoo
Customerbase = Adwords/YPN advertisers

Walmart is the only store in town, they may charge there customers more money for items which makes them X profit.

Now Target opens a store across the street, in order to attract customers both stores lower prices which yields each store X less profit then in the prior situation.

Publishers will make less because advertisers are paying less


Or you might consider that there is a static amount of publishers and the amount of money being thrown at them is about to double.

kwasher




msg:1414137
 1:22 pm on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am sure the changes are for the long term interests of both publishers and advertisers.

I'm sure the changes are for the long term interests of google.

drall




msg:1414138
 3:40 pm on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Powdork I personally do not believe this is the case, they have a large glut of inventory and publishers producing scraper sites by the billions are endless not to mention authority sites that have not implemented there product yet.

Hopefully we can look back at this thread 2 years from now and say man, drall was soooo wrong:)

Powdork




msg:1414139
 5:56 pm on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't believe that's the case either. But I think what will happen is somewhere in between the two groups of thought.

WallyWorld




msg:1414140
 7:32 pm on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

EPC has been declining for us, too. Today is the lowest EPC we have ever seen over a large number of clicks/pages.

Could it be the Yahoo program drawing off some advertisers and thus lowering the competition and bids?

Swebbie




msg:1414141
 7:55 pm on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Today is the lowest EPC we have ever seen over a large number of clicks/pages.

I would disregard any patterns you see in your stats for the past few days and going forward until a couple of days after Labor Day. With the U.S. hurricane devastation still playing out + major holiday, you'll learn nothing from AdSense that can be applied to the "normal" state of things. I've vowed not to check my stats until the end of each day until Labor Day ends. My wife is ready with the duct tape to force my arms to my sides if I break this vow. ;-)

James




msg:1414142
 10:14 pm on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

My adsense checking is in direct relation to lighting a Cigarette... and I smoke 3 an hour right now!

ann




msg:1414143
 10:48 pm on Sep 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

James, Before or after you check them. ;-)

Ann

James




msg:1414144
 5:45 am on Sep 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

I light one just after clicking the login button. I cannot speak for Stateside accounts, but my earning now have dropped to less than the cost of a packet of cigarattes, and bandwidth cost. My impressions seem to be about right, but the income is virtually nothing. I was thinking perhaps PSA's were being served, but I am now at a all tine low.

This 72 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 72 ( 1 [2] 3 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved