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Any Known Cases of Successful Click Attacks?
uk_webber




msg:1383950
 10:22 am on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

Has anyone successfully attacked another site with clicks and had them removed from Adsense? Do you dare admit to? Have you ever considered it?

[edited by: jatar_k at 6:37 pm (utc) on Aug. 16, 2005]

 

PalX




msg:1383951
 12:57 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

Has anyone successfully attacked another site with clicks and had them removed from Adsense?

Nope, but if you want i can try it, just give me your url. :D

uk_webber




msg:1383952
 1:27 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

[google.com...]

Eltiti




msg:1383953
 1:53 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

What you describe is most likely illegal and most certainly immoral/unethical...

Also, I fail to see why anyone would want to do it: just to hurt another webmaster, while there are no possible gains for you?!

asp4bunnies




msg:1383954
 2:24 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

Let me give you two scenarios:

1) 500 clicks in the span of 2 minutes from one ip address.

2) A couple of clicks a day here and there over the course of a week, from one ip address.

Do you really think Google is so stupid as to not recognize which is an attack and which is a self-clicking pattern? Incidentally, scenario 2 will not trigger a site ban unless it's from the owner's ip address. It might trigger a recalculation of revenue to ignore those clicks or you might net your competitor some dishonest money. Either way you're wasting your time.

Brett_Tabke




msg:1383955
 2:24 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

It is not necc a poor topic. That is especially true since the poster is asking if it has happened to anyone - or anyone has caused it - not that he has done it, or promoted it. The discussion could help us all and help google to prevent it in the future. They need some quality test cases from time to time.

The concept of click fraud (and it is only a concept at this poin), is something that needs to be discussed. It is an issue that all the advertising programs have had to deal with.

> Has anyone successfully attacked another site with clicks

I have not heard of a single verified successful case.

mikeh100




msg:1383956
 2:26 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

Now I understand why nobody places their URLs in their user profiles.

This type of deliberate attacking of another site is something that I would never consider, nor would anyone I know consider it.

Why would you attack a competitor? Jealousy?

If you want to knock off a competitor, simply make your site better than theirs! Its a hollow victory if your competitor isnt allowed to compete.

IMO, if another AdSense publisher does this sort of thing -they should be banned from the program.

Jenstar




msg:1383957
 2:37 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

if another AdSense publisher does this sort of thing -they should be banned from the program.

I believe this has happened.

uhwebs




msg:1383958
 3:37 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

I would think that Google would be smart enough to distinguish a click attack, and wouldn't ban the owner.

But I would like to know if anyone has been banned from google because they were click attacked.

aeiouy




msg:1383959
 3:40 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

I would think that Google would be smart enough to distinguish a click attack, and wouldn't ban the owner.

But I would like to know if anyone has been banned from google because they were click attacked.

I haven't seen any evidence to support that this has ever actually happened.

sunnydiv




msg:1383960
 3:47 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

i think what adsense ppl can do is, only allow like 1 click per ip in like 10 hours or so, that way they protect the attacked, + i dont think they ll need to ban accounts any more

further more i think banning of account relates not as much to
clicks from a single ip, but rather

how long the visitor stayed at ur site before he clicked
how long he stayed at advertiser's site

jenkers




msg:1383961
 3:48 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

never heard a reliable account of anyone getting kicked out of Adsense because of click fraud. However I have other members confirm click attacks on their sites and G dealt with them as you would expect with no backlash on the publisher.

EVOrange




msg:1383962
 4:30 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

I love all the 'how could you', 'why would you', 'shame on you' posts.
Fact is, some would and could. It's not a bad idea to find out if it's possible and thereby perhaps protect oneself from those who have no morals or ethics.

EVO

dvd1000




msg:1383963
 4:38 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

Webmasters who go about downloading and copying websites using a website copier may become targets of attacks if the stealing is detected.

Moral = Don't steal. Work honestly for your content.

conor




msg:1383964
 4:44 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

I can imagine that if a determined attacker ran their clck script from the same/similar IP range as the victim site, or from a site registered with identical whois info as the victim, it would be pretty hard for the victim to 'prove innocence'.

PatrickDeese




msg:1383965
 4:59 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

FWIW a couple of months ago, I noticed that I had over 1200 clicks on a channel with under 100 impressions, and zero earnings.

I skimmed the sites logs, but didn't find anything particularly out of the ordinary, but I emailed the AdSense support team anyhow.

They said their automatic system had taken care of the problem, and I was never suspended or threatened with suspension from the AdSense program.

I don't know if it was a "clickbot attack", some sort of bug in their reporting or something else, but I just make sure that all my sites strictly comply with the AdSense T&C, and let Google worry about the rest.

aeiouy




msg:1383966
 5:16 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

Patrick, that is good anecdotal evidence to support that google doesn't just ban people who are victims of click attacks.

anton23




msg:1383967
 5:26 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, I can imagine that google has more knowhow that some click fraudster. In other way the whole business model could be at danger.

RonS




msg:1383968
 6:23 pm on Aug 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

I sure would have loved to get the people who were spamming my forum with links to their Made-For-AdSense site.

Their actions caused me to have to spend hours programming and take multiple technical approaches to prevent their automated spam while still allowing my users the priviledge of annonymous posting. (I accomplished this technical feat, and haven't had a single spam message since (many many months)).

If I had a robotic click generator coded, one that could [Possible approaches to launching a click attack removed] (boy that would be pretty easy to do) I would have been quite tempted to launch it against their site. I was that inconvenienced, annoyed and quite frankly angry.

An even better approach would be to [Possible approaches to launching a click attack removed] and click away.

Even causing them the annoyance and worry of having to deal with Google and worrying about being terminated would have been a good result, even if it didn't lead to their termination.

THAT'S why and how someone would and could do it.

Further, while you're assuming that "There's no confirmed terminations due to a click attack", how would most black-hat webmasters even know? They'd have to be REALLY persistent with G to find out why they were banned, G probably wouldn't be very interested in communicating with them after someone reviewed their sites, and since someone probably had a reason to go after them in the first place, they are probably resigned to the fact that they have enemies who would do such a thing.

Finally, a thought: Other than the fact that this approach could be used by "The Bad Guys" against "The Good Guys", or competitor vs. competitor, in a perfect world, wouldn't it be nice to remove the incentive (a profitable AdSense account) to create bogus content and spam?

[I removed all of the details before I posted this. I really don't want to cause the system, or anyone harm. But a person with a temper and some technical skills could wreak absolute havoc on AdSense and individual publishers.]

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