homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.196.225.45
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Visit PubCon.com
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: incrediBILL & jatar k & martinibuster

Google AdSense Forum

This 101 message thread spans 4 pages: 101 ( [1] 2 3 4 > >     
Responding to "I was terminated" threads
Some thoughts after recent events
hunderdown




msg:1420842
 3:32 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

<snip>

Got me thinking how we -- the WebmasterWorld AdSense community, such as it is -- might better respond to similar posters in the future. We were all jumping to the conclusion (I'm including myself in this) that he/she was violating the AdSense TOS, and deserved to be castigated.

It's entirely possible that he/she WAS violating the AdSense TOS, but by reacting in that way, we'll never know. And that's too bad, because we might have been able to learn something. The circumstances seemed different from many of the other "I was banned" threads. The poster said something about traffic from 10,000 different IPs, suggesting either that he/she had looked at his logs and was genuinely surprised that Google would have a problem with traffic from many sources, or was trying to scam Google with a lot of different fake traffic, and was surprised and upset to be caught (he/she subsequently posted in another thread this statement: "INVALID CLICK ATTACKS" which ties into either theory above--it's either the poster's conclusion of what happened, or a piece of misdirection).

It can be gratifying to jump on someone who wasn't playing by the rules, but if we jump too soon we jump on the innocent along with the guilty.

And more important, we lose the opportunity to learn something.

So I'm suggesting that for future "I was banned" posts, we:

* take them at face value
* be polite
* draw them out, and try to get as much information as possible
* not jump to conclusions
* treat the poster as if they were our best friend coming to us asking for help after getting terminated by Google

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 7:26 pm (utc) on July 19, 2005]
[edit reason] please reread the tos on moderation. [/edit]

 

jimbeetle




msg:1420843
 3:43 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Good post, hunderdown. I've been avoiding those threads because I assumed what the tone was going to be.

It's always good to keep in mind that the vast majority of us came to Webmaster World because we had a question or needed help somewhere along the line -- and found it.

MediaSpree




msg:1420844
 3:44 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yeah its kind of like a witch hunt mob mentality, there is no proof but still acusations and determination of guilt. Burn Her!

woop01




msg:1420845
 3:48 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Except all we have here is the information that the accused has chosen to provide. The company with all of the facts has made a decision of guilt. It's not a stretch to assume guilt.

MediaSpree




msg:1420846
 3:50 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Justice should come from your peers :)

hunderdown




msg:1420847
 3:52 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's not a stretch to assume guilt.

True, but we know Google HAS reinstated at least three accounts after terminating them.

And assuming guilt does us no good if our goal is to find out more about WHY the person was terminated. If we assume innocence we can learn more.

Sobriquet




msg:1420848
 3:54 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

The "I was terminated" threads are genrally in two directions. (1) - anger and flame filled by the terminated member and (2) - looking for a direction.

I assume, anger threads can be avoided but the one lookign for directions are very useful threads for all of us.

foxtunes




msg:1420849
 3:54 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Some people have the Monty Python "burn the witch" syndrome because they want to believe that only cheats get banned.....With so much riding on their accounts it helps them sleep better at night.

However anyone can be the victim of competitor sabotage, clickbots, or even a simple mistake.

incrediBILL




msg:1420850
 3:55 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think we're getting carried away over one instance as it varies from case to case, but considering the recent flood of "my account was terminated" threads, and most of them turned out to be admitted frauds, I think the AdSense populace is just jaded.

Maybe the reaction is because this poster complained in one thread they were dumped by Google and immediatey opened another thread about how to work the system and get another adsense account?

Does that sound like someone that was innocent and concerned about getting reinstated, making sure Google knows they did nothing wrong and salvaging the funds from their cancelled account?

oddsod




msg:1420851
 3:57 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> True...

Sorry to disagree but it's not true. Guilt suggest some wrongdoing. Google is believed to also terminate accounts for not generating enough traffic/clicks, for having too much of traffic from a particular country etc. That Google terminated the account is not proof of guilt. It's not even proof that Google sees guilt.

abbeyvet




msg:1420852
 3:57 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I agree completely - but sadly it is all too often evident that there was a blatant contravention of the TOS, that the person posting either did not read or ignored the TOS and that they DO deserve it and have a zero chance of being reinstated.

In those situations there is nothing to say and not much to learn either.

In cases where this is not obvious I can think of several people who have been taken seriously and helped.

hunderdown




msg:1420853
 3:58 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

incrediBill--true, but I'm still curious.

And even a thread that starts out with the poster accusing Google of scamming them, as that one did, could be guided in a productive direction once the poster calms down.

As abbeyvet says, there have been a number of times when people have been helped. I just want to ease up on the hair-trigger a bit and find out more, rather than jumping to conclusions.

Look at it as giving 'em enough rope, if you want.

jatar_k




msg:1420854
 4:01 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

very nice post hunderdown,

it's something that has bothering me for a while

Another thing is if they cheated and got caught, so what, we don't need to bother ourself with it or say "i told you so", we don't need to jump into the thread ad scream about cheaters, Google already took the necessary steps, done.

>> If we assume innocence we can learn more.

exactly, and also remember that new members may have lots to offer.

My first post at webmasterworld was asking about being banned by Google, 4 years later I think I may have helped a few people. These questions are still posted all the time but the members who originally answered my question were very nice and helped as much as they could.

oddsod




msg:1420855
 4:02 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> ignored the TOS and that they DO deserve it

Judge and jury?

The replies that such an attitude encourages are not in the spirit of WW and its TOS.

abbeyvet




msg:1420856
 4:16 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Oddsod I do not mean to sound mean spirited and sincerely hope that nothing I have ever posted came over that way.

But when someone posts that they have been terminated and in the same post or a recent previous post say that they happily clicked ads or had their friends do so - what can you think?

My response is to say nothing at all, because there is nothing to be said.

oddsod




msg:1420857
 4:20 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> what can you think?

You can think - like I would - that they have violated the TOS. Then we move on to seeing how we can help someone who wants to join our community. :)
In a month's time he could be the one who solves your js problem that nobody else could find a workaround for.

hyperkik




msg:1420858
 4:25 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google is believed to also terminate accounts for not generating enough traffic/clicks, for having too much of traffic from a particular country etc.

Who believes this? On what evidence?

oddsod




msg:1420859
 5:06 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Who believes this?
I do.

On what evidence?
Hearsay :)

But that is not really the point of the thread.

europeforvisitors




msg:1420860
 5:47 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'd never take an "I was terminated but am innocent" post at face value. Why? For two reasons:

1) People who cheat or steal aren't likely to admit it; and...

2) We've seen too many threads started by "innocent" ex-publishers who have turned out to be crooks.

Plus, if a note of reality isn't introduced into the discussion, such threads inevitably deteriorate into rants about how Google is an evil monopoly that's dumping innocent publishers willy-nilly instead of making its fraud-detection methods public for the convenience of honest publishers who wouldn't dream of misusing the information.

If we're going to be fair without being naive, we should approach "I was terminated but am innocent" threads neutrally instead of assuming guilt or innocence.

bobothecat




msg:1420861
 6:07 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

If we're going to be fair without being naive, we should approach "I was terminated but am innocent" threads neutrally instead of assuming guilt or innocence.

Very well said.

hunderdown




msg:1420862
 6:08 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

efv, that's fine with me--don't take those posts at face value. Just act as if you do so we can find out what happened more effectively....

Lex_Luther




msg:1420863
 6:25 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Good post Hunderdown, hopefully more will keep an open mind like yourself, enabling us all to better protect our incomes.

AdSenseAdvisor




msg:1420864
 6:38 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've noticed there seems to be concern surrounding accounts disabled for invalid clicks.

We have not made any significant changes to our monitoring system recently, and would like to reassure publishers that we value our relationships with you. However, sometimes it is necessary to disable some publisher accounts to maintain the quality of the network and ensure the long-term viability of the program.

Generally, this action is reserved for deliberate and egregious violations of the ToS and should not affect most of you. In most other cases, we try to work with publishers to comply with our guidelines and improve the results of their AdSense implementation.

In all cases, if you notice something suspicious in your account statistics, or if you feel there has been a misunderstanding, please email us.

-ASA

oddsod




msg:1420865
 6:40 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

If we're going to be fair without being naive, we should approach "I was terminated but am innocent" threads neutrally instead of assuming guilt or innocence.

I disagree. We can assume whatever we want. When a poster has admitted there was a TOS violation I can't see how anyone can not assume "guilt". But what's important is how we reply ... and that needs to be in the spirit of helping a fellow webmaster. The issue of guilty, innocent or in-between needs to really be set aside. It's a Google matter and not for us to take a position on that, we need to respond in the spirit of community.

Added: Thanks for your input ASA :)

sometimes it is necessary to disable some publisher accounts to maintain the quality of the network

And rightly so!

[edited by: oddsod at 6:47 pm (utc) on July 19, 2005]

ken_b




msg:1420866
 6:44 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Learning from others mistakes is often a good policy.

Sure, many of the "I got booted" threads eventually turn out to be the result of fairly common violations.

But it's also possible that we might see that some practices we thought to be acceptable actually can result in termination.

I don't know how likely that is to happen, but I'd certainly like to know about it if it does happen, and about what the practice was.

Google isn't likely to tell us anymore than "invalid clicks".

So listening carefully to those who get booted may be worthwhile.

A good bit of the most valuable information I've learned here came from what might seem like random comments in the middle of a conversation.

I've no reason to think these threads about getting "booted" from Adsense should be any different.

ann




msg:1420867
 6:46 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google reserves the right to terminate without notice any account that has not generated a sufficient number of valid clicks on or valid impressions of Ads (as measured by Google) for a period of two (2) months or more.

From the T&C.

Ann

7_Driver




msg:1420868
 7:22 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thank you ASA for giving honest publishers some reassurance on this topic - which I know has caused quite a lot of worry around here for a while.

It's good to have you around!

alika




msg:1420869
 7:31 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks ASA.

My concern with these types of threads is that it gives the wrong impression to other publishers, particularly the newbies, that Google simply terminates accounts at its own whim without rhyme or reason. Then the "I'm so scared, will my account be cancelled next?" threads pop out. While there have been publishers removed from the program -- whether the termination was justified or not -- there are also a lot more publishers who have been with the program for years or months now without receiving the dreaded termination email.

AdSenseAdvisor




msg:1420870
 7:47 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

That's a good point, alika, and I'm glad to see that several long-term publishers are represented on this thread.

In response to Ann's post, while this language is indeed included in the T&C, please note that we have never done this sort of termination.

-ASA

Lex_Luther




msg:1420871
 7:49 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Your right Alika, This is actually one of my fears. I am in an extremly competive niche and am always fearful a competitor will try to sobatage my account, we've all seen threads by people complaining about the site above them in the serps.

Currently I average about 250 a day, I can double or triple this income with a few months work, but is it worth the risk? Look what happened to suzyvirtual.

I just wish there was a way for Google to make me feel that I am a business partner, much as I feel they are mine, I would then feel more comfortable jioning the fed ex club.

This 101 message thread spans 4 pages: 101 ( [1] 2 3 4 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved