homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.81.170.186
register, free tools, login, search, subscribe, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Subscribe to WebmasterWorld
Visit PubCon.com
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: incrediBILL & jatar k & martinibuster

Google AdSense Forum

This 40 message thread spans 2 pages: 40 ( [1] 2 > >     
CPM ads explained
Answers to all of your questions ;)
AdSenseAdvisor




msg:1404496
 9:08 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

There’s been a lot of interest in CPM ads on WebmasterWorld, so I thought I’d proactively address some of the major questions I’ve seen repeated.

First, cost-per-thousand-impression (CPM) ads operate on a different payment structure than cost-per-click (CPC) image ads. With CPM ads, you’ll be paid each time an ad is displayed on your page. With CPC ads, you’ll be paid only when a user clicks on an ad.

So, how does AdSense decide whether to show CPM ads on your site?

Your site is automatically eligible for CPM ads. There seems to be concern that CPM ads will lower your earnings. However, in reality, if CPM ads show on your site, you should be paid as much or more than you would with traditional CPC ads. Our technology chooses which type of ads to display based on whichever options will generate the maximum revenue for that page.

Also, many of you have wondered whether CPM ads are image-based or text-based. The answer is both.

How will CPM ads affect your reports?

Currently, we are unable to provide separate reporting for CPM and CPC ads, so you’ll see combined impressions and earnings for both types of ads. This means you may notice a decrease in your click-through rate even as your earnings go up.

Lastly, what do CPM ads mean for the AdWords side?

Site targeting allows AdWords advertisers to select sites or groups of sites on which they want to advertise. Usually, these sites are chosen because they have high-quality content on a subject that matches the interests of both the advertiser target audience and your users.

Advertisers can then bid for these ads on a CPM basis. If our technology determines that this CPM bid will generate more revenue than traditional CPC ads competing for the same page, we’ll show CPM ads on your page.

So, if you would like to attract CPM ads, the best advice I can give is to continue producing great content!

Hope that helps,

-ASA

 

vabtz




msg:1404497
 9:13 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

thanks for the info.

do you mean in by "currently we do not" have a means to sepperate the stats that we will see seperate stats in the future?

ken_b




msg:1404498
 9:15 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

ASA;

My understanding is that not all adblock sizes support image ads, or CPM ads. Is that right?

If so, could you please post a list of the adblock sizes that do, and do not support image and/or CPM ads.

Can a CPM ad appear in an adblock size that does NOT support image ads?

Thanks.

aaronpaul




msg:1404499
 9:17 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Is it safe to assume that high traffic sites wil probbably see more CPM ads than a low traffic volume site?

incrediBILL




msg:1404500
 9:29 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Usually, these sites are chosen because they have high-quality content on a subject that matches the interests of both the advertiser target audience and your users.

So my visitors were a high demographic for Acid Reflux?

How in the heck did they determine that when the PurplePill ads invaded my site?

Erku




msg:1404501
 10:08 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks ASA,

Are you saying that even if we choose Text Ads Only option it will still show some CPM ads?

Are you also saying that the potential will be even higher if we selected Both CPM and CPC ads option?

I was shy from CPM because their eCPM could be low, but now it seems that you are saying that the technology sees what my traditional eCPM has been and brings CPM ads based on the same prices?

Thank you

bumpski




msg:1404502
 10:19 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

ASA

Why not make this another Ad Unit, or another option on existing Ad Units, so Publishers have some hint of whether their own optimization experiments are valid. This will be (is) yet another experiment thrown into the mix. It's amazing what pops up in Adsense ads at times, all without the publishers direct knowledge, (regardless of the contract).

If publishers keep experimenting while Google search, Adwords, and Adsense, simultaneously experiment, no one will be able to reach any legitimate conclusions about the efficacy of their own experiments.

This will turn into a completely unstable, unpredictable system, with Google Search, Adwords, Adsense, and the Publishers all doing concurrent experiments trying to optimize their piece of the pie (puzzle), only chaotic behaviour can be expected as the result. And it does seem like the performance of the system is already chaotic!

Providing additional ad units and ad unit options for these new features (experiments) will at least allow publishers control of one part of the experiment(s).
Create a CPM ad unit or option and be patient, you'll get plenty of volunteers without thrusting it upon all publishers whether appropriate or not.

JohnKelly




msg:1404503
 11:09 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

My understanding is that not all adblock sizes support image ads, or CPM ads. Is that right?

If so, could you please post a list of the adblock sizes that do, and do not support image and/or CPM ads.

Text and Image Ads:
leaderboard (728x90)
banner (468x60)
skyscraper (120x600)
medium rectangle (300x250)
wide skyscraper (160x600)

Text Ads Only:
large rectangle (336x280)
square (250x250)
half banner (234x60)
small rectangle (180x150)
button (125x125)
vertical banner (120x240)

ken_b




msg:1404504
 11:23 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks JohnKelly

I wonder if the CPM text ads will show with these sizes ....

Text Ads Only:
large rectangle (336x280)
square (250x250)
half banner (234x60)
small rectangle (180x150)
button (125x125)
vertical banner (120x240)

alika




msg:1404505
 11:28 pm on Jul 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's been showing in large rectangles in our site. They look like PSA ads - the advertiser fills up the entire ad unit. So I think it will show up in any size -- provided the advertiser is using that particular size.

AdSenseAdvisor




msg:1404506
 12:25 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

Wow… lots of issues to address here. Thanks for the great feedback, and I’ll try to answer all of your questions.

Also, please be patient with me, as these sorts of proactive posts are still a new concept to me in my first week as ASA. I didn’t expect such a response!

OK, first the easy questions. :)

vabtz, we’re aware that some publishers would like the option to separate statistics for CPM and CPC ads. Although we don’t currently offer this option, we may consider this in the future.

aaronpaul (and incrediBILL to an extent): the content of a site is more important than its traffic in determining CPM eligibility.

To choose which sites to target with CPM ads, advertisers search for sites related to topics they'd like to target, and a list of relevant websites will appear. Advertisers then select some sites and refresh the list, which takes into consideration their selections and returns a more refined list of sites relevant to their topic.

When listing sites for advertisers to choose from, we consider how relevant a website's content is to an advertiser's selected topic, rather than ranking based on size or PageRank. So in response to your question, even smaller sites have the opportunity to be seen by advertisers with an interest in targeting to their site's topics or themes.

If you’d like more information on the AdWords bidding process, you might be interested in this site:

[adwords.google.com ]

incrediBILL - as you know, site-targeted ads allow an advertiser to select the specific sites they feel are most appropriate to their campaign, allowing them to access to web pages that may not be keyword relevant, but that attract a highly relevant audience for their message. This is how your site was selected in this particular case.

If you disagree with the advertiser assessment and see a CPM ad you don’t feel is appropriate for your site, you can block ads from that URL (as with CPC ads) using filters. For information on filtering, visit [google.com ].

Erku, the answer is yes, even if you are opted-in to text ads only, you could see expanded text ads (as alika described). In response to your other question, yes, your revenue potential is highest when you are opted in to both CPM and CPC ads. Participating in site targeting allows you the most earnings possible for the Google ads on your site.

And, for all who are interested, I recommend the following ad formats to maximize your site’s revenue potential:

728 x 90 Leaderboard
468 x 60 Banner
300 x 250 Medium Rectangle
160 x 600 Wide Skyscraper
120 x 600 Skyscraper

Thanks for all of your interest!

-ASA

ken_b




msg:1404507
 12:32 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

So there is NO way for a publisher to opt out of CPM ads?

If so, that's unfortunate.

At least we can opt out of Image ads.

Visit Thailand




msg:1404508
 1:00 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

ASA, thank you for your time, patience and valuable input.

Are CPM ads now available to all AdWords advterisers or is it still in a limited quota?

markus007




msg:1404509
 1:13 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

ASA.

1. Can you lower the $2/CPM limit, for sites with a lot of pageviews per user no one would ever bid $2/CPM.

2. Can you allow Advertisers to bid on specific channels? Someone may not want to bid on the forum section but they should sure love to bid on the articles section. Basically allow publishers to create channels matching different demographics of their site, and then allow advertisers to bid on those channels. I mentioned this to members of the adsense team before but not sure if anything happened with it.

liewcf




msg:1404510
 1:25 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am new, sorry if I ask stupid questions here.

1. How do we know whether our site is showing Adsense CPM ads?

2. Is there anyway we can differentiate CPC ads and CPM ads? They look differently?

3. Is there any screenshot of CPM ads?

Thank you.

mafew




msg:1404511
 1:35 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

So there is NO way for a publisher to opt out of CPM ads?

If so, that's unfortunate.

Why would you want to?

"Participating in site targeting allows you the most earnings possible for the Google ads on your site."

ken_b




msg:1404512
 1:41 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

Can we set it up so that CPM/site targeted ads could run on only specific pages on our sites?

Am I right that site targeting works ONLY with CPM ads?

Or can an advertizer use site targeting to chose sites they want to run regular ads on?

ken_b




msg:1404513
 1:50 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

Why would you want to?

First, money isn't everything.

More important to me is that I don't run image ads because I don't want to drag down page load times with them.

My site is image heavy anyhow because of the photos I publish. Given the choice between being able to add an extra photo to a page or a having slightly better paying ad, the photos win every time for me.

I can probably live with the CPM text ads, if they don't look like junk. I've only seen a couple on other sites, and I wasn't impressed.

europeforvisitors




msg:1404514
 2:44 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

I can probably live with the CPM text ads, if they don't look like junk.

The text CPM ads aren't beautiful to look at, but then, neither are AdSense CPC text ads. And they're far less annoying than the interstitials, popups, and other ad formats used by many corporate sites.

For what it's worth, my eCPM and revenues have gone up noticeably since CPM ads arrived on some of my pages. They've given a definite boost to revenues from sections of the sate (a.k.a. "URL channels") that historically haven't done well with CPM ads.

spaceylacie




msg:1404515
 3:30 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just(about 2 weeks ago) noticed CPM ads on my sites... They take up an entire leaderboard on one of my most popular set of pages.

I noticed, after I channeled that section of my site to see what was going on, that my bottom line went up for that section of my site. The numbers are nice. While the subject is different, the targeted audience is about the same(a certain gender within the same age group, income, education level, etc...).

Change can be good.

Visit Thailand




msg:1404516
 3:38 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just wanted to ask another question to the one before about whether all AdWords advertisers can now use CPM ads.

The question is - can an advertiser select certain topics or keywords within a site or just select a site to target?

I ask because a while back I saw one advertiser everywhere, which made me think that perhaps they are targetting the site rather than specific topics within the site.

rbacal




msg:1404517
 4:37 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just thought I'd add some advice, from the advertiser's perspective, since I'm just launching some cpm image campaigns. I've reviewed DOZENS and dozens of possible sites to advertise on, and the large majority of them are completely unsuitable for cpm ads.

Let me drop some hints about how to get "us" advertisers to choose your site, based on our experience (we do both adwords/adsense).

1) We want to display at min. 2 dollars+ cpm ABOVE THE FOLD, in space that is uncluttered. We won't pay you a cent if you have a creative space at the very bottom of the page, because NOW, we pay for impressions. Before it didn't matter, since we paid for clicks.

2) ABSOLUTELY professional reputable sites, that are clearly NOT built specifically for adsense. CONTENT.

3) If you use multiple creatives of the same format on a page, forget about it. We're not paying to be displayed on your page twice, particularly if one or both of the displays are going to result in NO clicks because of their positioning.

4) Here's the thing to remember. WE (advertisers) want clicks. If your site, because of its design, shoddy reputation, lack of content, etc looks like it attracts people unlikely to click on our ads, we aren't interested. The only reason we'd use cpm images is because it's more cost effective. Also, not interested in placements on forums.

5) We (others may differ) use both skyscrapers, but we do NOT plan on using 468 banners, leaderboards,or inline rectangles because the placement of these on most of the sites we reviewed tells us we will get zero clicks. skys are hard to stick below a fold, but the others can easily be buried. Of course, if we find a site that has a well placed 468 banner that will get us our clicks, we might produce some creatives that size. But right now, we don't want to be buried at the bottom of pages. And that's what we are finding on most sites, so we simply don't choose them. INTEGRATE the creatives properly with enough white space so they stand out. Set it up so we get clicks, and you get our money.

So, bottom line is that while your site design is important for CPC, it's ten times more important for CPM. Because we pay for the impressions. Other advertisers may think differently, but that's our approach.

PS. The same applies to both CPM images, and CPM text ads. We're paying to get clicks. If you can't supply them, you don't get chosen, or you get turfed very fast.

But, if you do have it set up well, AND we get a few conversions from it (not just clicks) we'll jack up the CPM for your particular site. If you are valuable to us, we'll pay you more.

PPS. Oh yeah, forgot something. I'm seeing a fair amount of sites (even sites that were "reputable") cheating and violating adsense TOS, particularly by attracting undue attention to their ads in unacceptable ways. So, if you violate ANY TOS, run popups on the pages, we won't even consider you.

PPS. We see, at a glance, how ads on your site (if we choose it) are doing. We check. We primarily look at CTR. We can determine (within 1,000 impressions) whether you deserve our money. Then we look at conversions, which you have little control over, BUT conversions from ads on your site tell us that YOUR visitors are valuable to us. And then you ARE gong to get your rates jacked up.

And, you don't get much leeway. We don't have time to spend money or mess with sites that don't produce. So, quality, design, placement, leads to CTR, and you're in business.

tallguy




msg:1404518
 4:52 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

AdSenseAdvisor said " So, if you would like to attract CPM ads, the best advice I can give is to continue producing great content! "

Yes this is true & certainly adsense has given us small webmasters a chance to add good content on our sites. Thanks adsense.

But we sometimes notice there are people trying to copy our content shamelessly & we hope adsense could do more to stop copyright infringement since google HAS the technology to identify & cache the original content site....like the wayback machine.

thanks
TG

vabtz




msg:1404519
 5:21 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just checked out the CPM options. Wow that has a lot of potential for forums but the 2 dollar minimum kills it.

My forum traffic is worth something in branding but 2 dollars is a way too much. I would value my forum traffic more like 50 cents CPM.

foxtunes




msg:1404520
 7:10 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

".....I recommend the following ad formats to maximize your site’s revenue potential:

728 x 90 Leaderboard
468 x 60 Banner
300 x 250 Medium Rectangle
160 x 600 Wide Skyscraper
120 x 600 Skyscraper....."

Hi Adsense advisor, what about the 336 x 280 large rectangle format?

bbd2000




msg:1404521
 10:01 am on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

Rbacal: Great Post!

We as publishers must always remember we have two customers: the visitor and the advertiser.

I, for one, will implement some of your suggestions…

europeforvisitors




msg:1404522
 2:52 pm on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

rbacal wrote:

And, you don't get much leeway. We don't have time to spend money or mess with sites that don't produce. So, quality, design, placement, leads to CTR, and you're in business.

You make a lot of good points, but it's important to remember that not all buyers of CPM ads are direct-response advertisers. On the flip side, not all CPC campaigns are suited to the "site-targeted CPM" approach. Quite a bit of experimentation is obviously going on now, and I'd guess that some of the narrowly focused direct-response CPM ads that I'm seeing on my own site won't "produce" for the advertisers--not because my site lacks quality content or a desirable audience, but because an ad for Elbonian language learning probably doesn't generate many leads when it's running on travel-planning pages about Slobovia or Widgetonia. I think the real growth in Google's site-targeted CPM advertising will come from mainstream advertisers who have long experience in CPM media planning.

Right now, advertisers have two AdSense options: Buy CPC contextual ads and have no control over who sees them, or buy site-targeted CPM ads and have no control over the context in which they're displaced. IMHO, advertisers need a third option: site-targeted CPC ads. These would meet the needs of direct-response advertisers who want control over context and audience.

[edited by: europeforvisitors at 3:02 pm (utc) on July 14, 2005]

MediaSpree




msg:1404523
 2:55 pm on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

so if a site is targeted for CPM, how are the stats shown? Would it show 100 impressions, 100 "clicks"? Or is the money just added in to the earnings. meaning it would show 100 impressions, 0 clicks, but earnings show $25.00.

oddsod




msg:1404524
 3:01 pm on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

One more nail in the coffin for the metric called "EPC" - with CPM mixed with CPC there's no way of telling your average EPC :)

7_Driver




msg:1404525
 3:11 pm on Jul 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

As both a publisher and an advertiser, I think rbacal makes a lot of good points.

He's absolutely right that advertisers will pay a lot of attention to the quality of your site, now that they can choose where they are going to appear. That has to be good.

Here's the thing to remember. WE (advertisers) want clicks.

That may be true for rbacal - but it's not true for all advertisers. I would also suggest, that if you want clicks, pay for clicks - CPC is the way to go.

CPM advertising is for those who want impressions, brand awareness and the like. Yeah - you'll get some clicks - perhaps in the early days you might get some cheap clicks - and good luck to you - but in the long term, if you're primarily interested in clicks, CPC is your market.

This 40 message thread spans 2 pages: 40 ( [1] 2 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved