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This 34 message thread spans 2 pages: 34 ( [1] 2 > >     
Is It An Adsense Catch 22 When/If YPN Launches?
To try or not to try, that may be the question!
OptiRex




msg:1396548
 2:23 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Quite a lot of people have posted their dissatisfaction with their Adsense earnings and have publicly stated here that as soon as the YPN Network opens they will move to it.

This is a Devil's Advocate type of question in that if many current advertisers moved to YPN, let's say 20% for argument's sake, and if Adsense were to manage to get scrapers more under control, would that actually mean for the remaining Adsense publishers an increase in EPC owing to far fewer advertising opportunities being available?

If this meant a real increase in EPC and earnings then just how many would then be willing to make that switch?

Personally I would definitely like to try YPN across one site, if I were to be accepted of course, to compare the results plus it is very easy for me to do that with CSS, however for those with only one site and having to change all the code manually it is a far greater leap of faith to jump ship.

As a publisher what do you think are the ramifications for your web site(s) with Adsense, other similar programs and the proposed YPN?

 

universetoday




msg:1396549
 2:50 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Let's hope Google gets the scrapers under control anyway, I think that will help raise overall EPC.

Whatever decreases overall ad inventory for Adsense should boost EPC as well, of course, advertisers might make the switch too and just even things out.

openmind




msg:1396550
 4:07 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think it's simply far too early to speculate about the impact of Yahoo's program because it's not even in sight yet. Also I can't see why Yahoo would perform better than Adsense. After all Google has a much more advanced search technology in place than Yahoo. Yahoo doesn't seem to index pages as fast and thoroughly as Google. Yahoo is a rather weird system of indexing pages anyway. Look at your own stats - how many of your pages are indexed by Yahoo and how many by Google? If Yahoo cannot index pages properly how can they deliver contextulized advertising?

incrediBILL




msg:1396551
 4:12 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yahoo doesn't seem to index pages as fast

I wouldn't say they are hands down the winner in all cases.

When I submitted a new site recently Y! beat the pants of both G and MSN getting it indexed, was visible within the week. G only snagged the home page for weeks, MSN beat them getting it totally indexed.

Anyway, when the malcontents bail to YPN it will leave more for me, I'm cool with that.

Jenstar




msg:1396552
 5:15 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't think it really matters if it is Google, Yahoo, MSN or Jenstar's Really Cool Contextual Ad Program. Publishers are going to go with whichever one makes them the most money. And the program that makes me the most money could be the one that earns the least for the next person.

I think it will come down to trial and error, lots of testing, and keeping your ear to the ground about what other publishers who are doing the same are discovering.

7_Driver




msg:1396553
 5:28 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think it's reasonable to expect that when YPN launches, EPC on AdSense for those of us that sit tight will increase.

Demand stays the same (presumably), supply falls, therefore price rises.

If the falls in EPC that lots of us experience when our volumes rise, is down to a shortage of the highest paying ads - then fewer publishers should mean more high paying ads to go round, and therefore smaller falls in EPC.

elsewhen




msg:1396554
 6:56 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)


I think it's reasonable to expect that when YPN launches, EPC on AdSense for those of us that sit tight will increase.

Demand stays the same (presumably), supply falls, therefore price rises.

when YPN launches, there will be much more real estate for advertisers to exploit, so the advertisers may flock over.

the release of YPN will also lead to a flurry of news stories which will probably bring in even more advertisers to PPC.

there are all sorts of forces in play, and my best guess is that things will remain pretty much as they are. this however, is largely based on what YPN will offer. to grab marketshare, they may offer huge payouts at first, which might make many google adsensers jump ship. who knows?

incrediBILL




msg:1396555
 7:05 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

when YPN launches, there will be much more real estate for advertisers to exploit, so the advertisers may flock over.

How do you figure?

Unless everyone with scraper made for AdSense sites put up clone made for YPN sites, or better yet that all the sites banned from AdSense jump back into the fray.

I'm sure advertisers will just be clammoring for those.

openmind




msg:1396556
 7:22 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

This is an entirely theoretical discussion because nobody knows when or rather if Yahoo will ever launch a program similar to Adsense.

Jenstar




msg:1396557
 7:27 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

when or rather if Yahoo will ever launch a program similar to Adsense.

It is just a matter of when. They have already begun limited beta testing.

elsewhen




msg:1396558
 8:06 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

This is an entirely theoretical discussion because nobody knows when or rather if Yahoo will ever launch a program similar to Adsense.

you are right, that Yahoo may back out of its plans, but it certainly has plans: [publisher.yahoo.com...]

dregs33




msg:1396559
 10:55 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi

Unless I'm missing something here Adsense will not suffer that much.

1. Adsense for website content publishers is paid for by Adwords advertisers.

2. YPN for website content publishers will be paid for by Overture advertisers.

The volume of Adwords advetisers is maybe 50 - 1 the volume of Overture advertisers.

If your were to swap your site from Adsense to YPN for the majority of sites your earnings would collaspe.

Yahoo simply doesn't have the volume to compete.

dregs33

7_Driver




msg:1396560
 12:34 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

The volume of Adwords advetisers is maybe 50 - 1 the volume of Overture advertisers.

Do you have a source for this figure?

OptiRex




msg:1396561
 3:05 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yahoo simply doesn't have the volume to compete.

The ONE thing that is very consistent from many, many WebmasterWorld posts made is that more search referrals are made from Google than from Yahoo even though they "supposedly" have a roughly equal market share of search enquiries!

Does this actually mean there are two major search models on the Net? I say that in all honesty since I only ever use Yahoo! to check my Yahoo! SERPS occasionally...

Those who Google and follow thru using Adsense etc and the Yahooer's who do whatever they do? Please don't ask me what Yahooers do however their revenues are evident they are doing something right.

I'll be controversial and say Google are global and Yahoo more "US/English" language...don't shoot me!

Obviously there is a huge difference in the methodology of which each searcher performs since as much as Google likes to believe there is only the Google-way, many use Yahoo and take a completely different course of action, consequently results.

when YPN launches, there will be much more real estate for advertisers to exploit, so the advertisers may flock over.

An interesting point bearing in mind the supposed Yahoo! market share.

Of course this would mean Yahoo! having to introduce a similar, very simple system for advertisers to use however just how many of those advertisers will be willing to set up another advertising campaign on an "unproven" medium?

I say "unproven" precisely because, as stated above, almost everyone's stats show Google is way and above their #1 referrer...

Please, just remember I am playing the Devil's Advocate to open the possible conundrum of Adsense versus YPN, however for many this may become a very serious decision.

Being a good boy and reading through what I have written, my English teacher would be very proud, I'll venture to to suggest that maybe Google is the international advertising medium whereas Yahoo! is predominately US American.

Would that be fair?

Apologies for any typos...it's 04.00!

suidas




msg:1396562
 4:54 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Can Yahoo do as well as Google? Aren't there patents at stake here?

Undead Hunter




msg:1396563
 5:12 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've raised this point before in another thread, but wouldn't Yahoo's lower limit of payout be higher than Google's, just because Yahoo charges a min. $0.10 vs. G's $0.05 bids?

This means if you're a mass scale site making, say, $0.03 per click, with Yahoo paying 50% to publishers(!?), you could be making $0.05 a click, or nearly double your money (again, on really large scale sites.)

We can speculate all we want, but until it actually launches no one can know for sure.

What I'm more concerned about is whether or not Google's stock price will take a minor hit the day Yahoo announces this... and how much Yahoo's stock might go up that day. Might be some chance to make money that day...

Jenstar




msg:1396564
 6:06 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yahoo charges a min. $0.10 vs. G's $0.05 bids?

That's a very good point. For those publishers earning under ten cents a click, it could definitely make a profitability difference between the two.

Alioc




msg:1396565
 6:18 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

The volume of Adwords advetisers is maybe 50 - 1 the volume of Overture advertisers.

If your were to swap your site from Adsense to YPN for the majority of sites your earnings would collaspe.

You're right if we're talking about general information sites which needs a lot more ad inventory. However, the alltime profitable niches that we all know about have higher bid prices at overture. At least the top 3 listings, because overture pushes advertisers to get into top 3 to spread the ads to 80% of the Internet(what they claim)

cicru




msg:1396566
 7:36 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

The reason for Yahoo's smaller market of advertisers is because Yahoo has a smaller market share in search.

Which means less searches .. less opportunity to display the adverts.

With a publishers network Overture will have the base to compete with Google Adsense / Adwords.

Which is good for both publishers and advertisers.

I do expect some radical change in Adsense, if yahoo starts advertising their product as a quality pre selected publisher network. Google adsense might start kicking the skyscraper sites out and some.

So this could backfire in the end.

asianguy




msg:1396567
 8:39 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

YPN is not going to launch this year, nor next year i suspect. YPN is being tested by a bunch of little guys who cant decide what to do with it and when to launch it.

Yahoo is a company that is waiting for its destruction. Advertisers are leaving thats why they cant launch YPN because they dont have enough advertisers base for small partner networks.

frox




msg:1396568
 9:25 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)


Jenstar's Really Cool Contextual Ad Program

Wow!
Where do I sign up?

I am quite pessimistic too for ypn's launch times.

I think Y is having trouble to do a proper contextual algo, struggling between inherent technical difficulties and Google's patents.

openmind




msg:1396569
 9:34 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Frox, you are not pessimistic but rather realistic. I too can't see how Yahoo will be able to launch a program that comes anywhere near the performance of Adsense.

elsewhen




msg:1396570
 10:00 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

i dont think the problem is technical at all. not that the project is trivial, but yahoo has more than enough money and ability to pull off a contextual ad program. i suspect that the problem is critical mass. the program only works when there is sufficient advertisers and web real estate to use.

they are probably contacting their big advertisers and trying to sell them on the option to have their ads appear on publisher's sites. they probably promise that the network will be high quality, but since it doesn't exist yet, the advertisers respond... we will check it out when it is ready.

in the end, the problem is "priming the pump" and the way they will probably have to accomplish this is by sweetening the deal for the advertisers (and maybe for publishers too). yahoo might take only a very small percentage to arrive at critical mass quickly while simultaneously grabbing market share. then, slowly, they will start to increase their percentage.

thats the only way i can see it working, and i think it is likely that they will get it to work - there is just too much money to be made to let this slip through their fingers.

openmind




msg:1396571
 10:26 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

"but yahoo has more than enough money and ability to pull off a contextual ad program."

Do you really think that money will enable Yahoo to 'pull off a contextual ad program'? They need much more than just money to succeed in this field. I might be biased but every time I try to find a specific piece of information through Yahoo I get frustrated because the search results are often irrelevant. I think solid and relevant search results are the foundation for any contextual ad program. As I see it Yahoo has been diversifying into different areas and web search is not their top priority. That's why Google has been able emerge and grow in the first place. MSN has also been trying to improve their search engine but I think it's still much weaker than Google's. If they cannot deliver better search results than Google they will be having a hard time to compete with Adsense.

asianguy




msg:1396572
 10:30 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Unhead Hunter >> I've raised this point before in another thread, but wouldn't Yahoo's lower limit of payout be higher than Google's, just because Yahoo charges a min. $0.10 vs. G's $0.05 bids?

Didnt you know that most Google publishers are getting $0.10 cents a click or more?

In my situation alone, even my adsense has collapsed, i am still getting at least that .10 per click.

Alioc




msg:1396573
 3:57 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Do you really think that money will enable Yahoo to 'pull off a contextual ad program'? They need much more than just money to succeed in this field.

Money means highly skilled programmers, best marketers, cute customer relationship managers... ;)

So yes, it's enough to accomplish anything in this world if you know how to use; except true-love and infinite life. :P

ownerrim




msg:1396574
 4:04 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

"you are right, that Yahoo may back out of its plans, but it certainly has plans:"

Unfortunately, there's nothing on that page that definitively states that yahoo intends to launch an adsense-like product. Nothing. And maybe that's why we're hearing...nothing.

OptiRex




msg:1396575
 2:14 am on Jul 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Some great points have been made which I feel sure we are all digesting however apologies for repeating myself:

The ONE thing that is very consistent from many, many WebmasterWorld posts made is that more search referrals are made from Google than from Yahoo even though they "supposedly" have a roughly equal market share of search enquiries!

I have no reason to doubt these figures therefore why would anyone think/feel/rationale that moving from Adsense to YPN may benefit themselves?

openmind:
I might be biased but every time I try to find a specific piece of information through Yahoo I get frustrated because the search results are often irrelevant.

Precisely, and for most "casual" search users this is the problem.

We are all in this forum because we are an expert, or attempting to become one, in search/advertising/publishing/etc.

Joe Public doesn't give a fig about that, they want a relevant answer and, unfortunately, Yahoo's is usually questionable...therefore would you as a publisher use a program which already delivers mediocre results?

At the end of the day for publishers it is the one from which most most money can be earned however for the solo web site owner, it could be make or break!

The real problem Yahoo! have is that Adsense is SO easy to use, as either an advertiser or publisher, that they have to try and replicate it without anyone noticing...others are doing it however I just feel that Yahoo! playing "Follow my leader", just does not ring true.

Apologies for any grammatical errors, it's been a challenging day in the UK.

ann




msg:1396576
 2:30 am on Jul 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't know about Yahoo, but Fastclick just rolled out their contextual ads and the large block and rectangles are adsense clones from the look of them.

In the faqs it was suggested the questioner check with google before putting them up.

I emailed them and said no thanks....looks like I may get rid of FC sooner than anticipated. they s*** as far as earnings go.

I was really floored when I saw the ads.....just like adsense!

Ann

janethuggard




msg:1396577
 4:12 am on Jul 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Fast click sucks?

Not exactly. The biggest mistake I see here among adsense publishers is lauching the site and then placing Adsense on every page. Huge mistake. If the page has low traffic why would you do that?

Answer: you shouldn't

You do things in order on the web.

1. Build the site
2. Build the traffic
3. Generate revenue
4. Optimize revenue

I see webmasters say, "hey, I have 5,000 pages, and I can't build any more, but my Adsense revenue is declining, or at minimum not decreasing, why?"

Why?

That might be because 4,993 pages have virtually no traffic. They might get a few hits a day, and no clicks on the ads. Adsense is going to be unhappy. In that case, you put Fastclick on it, and take what you get. You are much more likely to have them click those Fastclick banner ads,(which perform better than the text ads in the general audience category) keeping your CRT up to minimum levels, if you carefully choose your advertisers.

Don't sacrafice the page that will produce Adsense revenues, with all those non-performing Adsense pages.

We launch sites with Adsense from day one. BUT, we can do that, because we can drive targeted traffic to them, from day one in volumn. Because the traffic is highly targeted, our CTR is good.

If you launch it, be ready to drive traffic to it. Otherwise, keep Adsense off it, until you can.

Fastclick covers our bandwidth overage fees. Good enough for now.

This 34 message thread spans 2 pages: 34 ( [1] 2 > >
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