| This 43 message thread spans 2 pages: 43 (  2 ) > > || |
|Many sites are made for cheating Adsense|
| 7:44 pm on Jun 12, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Yes, everyone has to admit that many web sites in the Internet are made solely in the purpose of cheating Adsense.You can find out many poorly designed web sites with, of course, junk content that benifit none displaying an Asense box in the Internet.
These web sites can actually harmful to Google and other web site owners who rely on Adsense to buy their bread. Think about that over 70% Adsense members are spammers and cost great loss to Google and as a result, Adsense closes down. The rest 30% 'real' members,including you and me, as well as those advertisers, will suffer a lot.
It is the Adsense Policies that every member can put their unique adsense code in as many site as they have,that give a definite chance to spammers.I have written to Google asking review on every sites containg adsense box, but gain no reply. It seems that Google does not think it si a problem, but actually the problem is getting worse and worse.
[edited by: Jenstar at 4:36 am (utc) on June 13, 2005]
[edit reason] TOS # 26 [/edit]
| 7:58 pm on Jun 12, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I think Google knows what you are saying, and is aware of the situation. Some of the recent changes in the adsense program are aimed at helping to deal with the situation, and encouraging new advertisers into the content area. Specifically allowing advertisers to choose what sites their ads do, and don't appear on.
If advertisers are having a problem with unproductive sites, then they don't have to have their ads on them. This should (hopefully) mean that advertisers are willing to spend more on sites they get quality clicks from at the expense of spammy sites. Give it time to let the market forces shake it out!
However, for all we know, the sites that convert best for the advertisers may be the spammy sites we complain about.
I don't think that telling them to look at *all* sites with adsense on is going to help. If you see a site that contravenes the Google TOS, then you can always report it to Google.
| 8:15 pm on Jun 12, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I quite agree. It is our soul purpouse tha AdSense should stay alive and kicking so us honest publishers can live out of doing what they love and supporting the comunity of internet-users with free content and in return just ask of them to consider looking at an ad. I agree that dishonest spammers can make AS eventually be taken down and maybe it already results in half of the money you and I could be making, because of it's lower credibility.
But where do we draw the line. Some publishers might try to bend the TOS but not to leach out of AdSense but to i.e. make the ads be actually relevant and fix the mistake of bad interpretation of a crawler-bot. Like for example the problem with the "termite" that was somewhere back. Should site's like these also be reported. GoogleAd boxes can't contain options of reporting a site beacause right now theyre generating millions of clicks per hour. But clicks can be checked by an automated system. Reports would force google to employ a whole new bunch of staff to check them, and that again costs money. And what if thousands of drunk surfers would just click the report button and write "i like b00bies", every one of them would have to be checked, and no one that wrote such an invalid report could be held responsible for it.
But sure if you disagree I will gladely mail them such a suggestion.
What would be more of an instant idea is to make a new site that would consist of the most dedicated AdSense users that would allow other users to report any site suspected of fraud. The dedicated users then could check the site for google for no charge of course (cause it's in their interest) and then it could be reported officialy to AdSense. And with time maybe the site would earn enough respect from AdSense tha a special mail account would be created for it's members.
Heh X), But that's just in my imaginary world where everybody works like a team, supports and helps each other, and not kidnap planes and smash them into buildings.
| 8:24 pm on Jun 12, 2005 (gmt 0)|
"web site owners who rely on Adsense to buy their bread"
I dont think any body should be that reliant on one money making program that could be gone tomorrow!
| 8:27 pm on Jun 12, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|Think about that over 70% Adsense members are spammers and cost great loss to Google and as a result, Adsense closes down |
I head what you're saying but not sure they don't convert well or Google would probably can them all or smart pricing would (theoretically) reduce their income to such rock bottom levels the junk sites would close shop and go away. So, the fact that they exist and there are so many of them would tend to prove the opposite in that they are making some decent money and must be converting for advertisers regardless of how crappy they are. As a matter of fact, the crappier the web site, the better the CTR and conversion might be as the Google ad content is probably be the most interesting thing even on the web site and catches the surfers attention.
Now take into account that not only did Google buy one large domain park but they have a special program just for domain parks which have ZERO content. This fact tells me Google doesn't just dislike junk sites, they endorse it 100% as I really don't see any difference between a scraper site and a parked domain displaying ads as neither of them have any real value.
Which brings up the big AdSense conflict in my mind where Google talks out both sides of their neck like a politician since on the one hand it's against the T&C's to make "made for AdSense" sites but on the other hand domain parks which have no purpose but displaying AdSense are perfectly fine!
Does the phrase "Don't do as I do, Do as I say!" ring a bell?
| 8:41 pm on Jun 12, 2005 (gmt 0)|
"Does the phrase "Don't do as I do, Do as I say!" ring a bell?"
There's another saying also: "don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs".
| 8:58 pm on Jun 12, 2005 (gmt 0)|
"don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs"
exactly, I seriously don't believe that anyone's life actually depends on AdSense. Even if it was gone one could still make money from his site, just buy searching manualy for a sponsor, or just signing up for a different ad program, which will never completaly disappear due to the fact it always will be profitable.
The question is WHY BOTHER searching for different ad programs, when you've got the best, most reliable, userfreindly, profitable, easy, offensive and pornography ad free and support giving one right here. It's willing to give you money, it's willing to support your lifestyle, WHY RUIN THAT?
| 9:03 pm on Jun 12, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|There's another saying also: "don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs". |
Do you consider Google the goose for us or all the scraper/spam/parked domains the goose for Google?
I seriously think the parked domains make more for Google than everyone in WW put together.
| 11:53 pm on Jun 12, 2005 (gmt 0)|
"Do you consider Google the goose for us or all the scraper/spam/parked domains the goose for Google?"
Not sure what to think really. I think the scrapers and parked domains make them money, but, in the long run, they damage the public perception of google and turn the egg from golden to rotten and smelly.
I think they're doing a balancing act. Maybe if yahoo comes in and has much higher standards for their content network (equaling higher payouts and the ability to siphon off the better adsense sites), things may change. At that point, google may be forced to take the high road...or else be saddled with just the crap of the crop.
| 12:22 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|saddled with just the crap of the crop |
So true - I hope Google is listening.
| 1:54 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I think it is nearly criminal what Google has allowed happen to the Adsense system.
Google has allowed Adsense to become such a destructive force on the Internet that it is becoming a fast second to spam email.
While many thousands of scumbags are making a living off of Adsense there are also likely many thousands of mom & pop sites that are being crowded out of the search engine results. As a result the livelyhood of many thousands is likely to have been degraded or wiped out.
| 2:09 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
why not give the scrap sites invalid clicks to take them down.
| 2:20 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Dude, I've got one word for you - Conversion Tracking.
Well, that was two. Here is why this is important.
People don't realize that when Google bans someone (i.e. AdSense or search engine) - 90% of the case the decision was not made by a human being, but by a machine.
As more and more marketers use Conversion Tracking, Google gets a nice fat database for each end every publisher they have. And if they find out that your traffic does not convert, they'll just ban you. We'll get a new post here "Banned by Google, I swear I did not click my own ads", but what you won't realize is that your site was banned because the traffic does not convert. Conversion Tracking is the EASIEST way to divide legit site from junk. If people come from a site and buy #*$!, Google will keep you. If not - not.
That's why (in my opinion) many scapers still exist - the traffic converts and Google has no reason to ban them.
Cheating Google is a dumb idea, because they'll catch up with you and you'll have to start over.
| 2:29 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|it's against the T&C's to make "made for AdSense" sites |
This is not true in my opion, surprises me that almost everyone on this forum says that.
From the TOS (emphasis mine):
|No Google ad may be placed on pages published specifically for the purpose of showing ads, whether or not the page content is relevant. |
I might misinterpret this, but I think Google wants to prevent publishers from making popups with adsense on them or interstitials (page with only ads and "click here to continue to content") with this rule.
It's perfectly logical (and good in my opion) that publishers create quality content to put Adsense on.
I reported some scraper sites to Google, my (limited) experience is that sites that show pages with no content at all and only ads get kicked. Some others that had "content" (static SERPs scraped from searchengines and some stockphoto's with happy men with ties etc.) were not, but I've seen them disappear from Google though after I reported them :)
| 2:55 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
David david david,
It isn't up to the publisher to make conversions even if they are scrapers.. it is up to the advertiser.
If the publisher is clicking on his own ads or having friends do it then that's another story.
| 4:09 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|This fact tells me Google doesn't just dislike junk sites, they endorse it 100% as I really don't see any difference between a scraper site and a parked domain displaying ads as neither of them have any real value. |
I don't think many people have trouble drawing the distinction, so perhaps that puts you in rare company.
Put me to the test - sticky me with emails to (1) a scraper, and (2) a parked domain, and see if I can tell the difference. Heck - if you want, send five of each, the hardest examples you can find. My guess is that I, and everybody else here, can discern with 100% accuracy the scrapers from the parked domains.
|I might misinterpret this, but I think Google wants to prevent publishers from making popups with adsense on them or interstitials (page with only ads and "click here to continue to content") with this rule. |
You do misinterpret the rule, which by its plain language references pages that have "page content". That's not to say that Google minds the creation of quality pages by webmasters who are inspired by the potential of AdSense profits, as I don't think the rule was in any way intended to discourage such content development.
|It isn't up to the publisher to make conversions even if they are scrapers.. it is up to the advertiser. |
You won't find many Mercedes dealers handing out business cards at a criminal court, and you won't find many criminal defense lawyers handing out business cards at a Mercedes dealership. Don't try to put the responsibility on somebody else if you can't deliver quality leads.
| 7:56 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|can discern with 100% accuracy the scrapers from the parked domains |
You missed my point entirely.
I can discern between the two of them, but I can't discern between their relative USLESSNESS!
| 8:15 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
No, "it's up to advertiser to make a conversion" is simply not true. Well, it is, but it's not.
Let's say I am a content advertiser (which I am but a very tiny one, because true search traffic is so much easier to convert). Let's say traffic from site A has X% conversion, site B Y% conversion and site C Z% conversion
(for my site). Let's say Google starts displaying ads at site D (the same keyword as for sites A, B, and C and comparable traffic) but their conversion is 0%. It means that site D is probably a sham. You can't say that guessing from one keyword, but if conversion is 0 or very low for several keywords the account may be closed and rightfully so. You can't say - well the conversion is low but it's advertiser's fault. It's not if other context traffic converts well. That's the basis for smart pricing and it will catch up with you.
That's why I believe a lot of scrapers don't get banned - the traffic may convert very well. The lack of authentic content may have nothing to do. Let's say you search for "Hotel in Madrid". There is a 100% guarantee that this is a classic setup for good conversion. Now let's say the scaper is #1 for this query in the search results. Person would click the link see that site is total shi*t and either click back or click that ad that says "Madrid Hotels, 80 Euros a Night". That click would almost certainly convert and such a scraper would never get banned from AdSense(and rightfully so).
| 10:16 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
isnt it funny, this board is made up of publishers moaning about other publishers content.
We ALL have added extra pages, changed layout, tried different ad units, tested adlinks, tried different colour schemes, blend in ads, stand out ads, did we do this for our customers/traffic NO we did it purely for profit. So anyone that says they added 30 pages to their site last week has done it purely for adsense revenue NOT for their customers to read.
There may come a time when G will close accounts of any publisher if they cant keep atleast 20% CTR, thats a fair figure, we all aim higher.
I am in tourism, I run around 7 sites with adsense, all unique content, if a surfer clicks an ad for hotel in widgetville, how the £$ck will G be able to work out if that click created a confirmed booking in that hotel, they cant, niether can the hotel manager.
I am already being emailed by accommodation owners 3 so far as to why their ads are not displayed in adwords on my sites when they used to be, this is what I did, I worked out WHICH ads are the most frequent, took a gamble at how often they get visits from clicks on my site, then for a week or two, add their URL to the exclude list, sure earnings drop a bit, not much, wait for any sort of contact, if none then leave them in the exclude list.
Now I have already signed up 2 of the excluded owners on a yearly basis, at much more than their ads were worth in clicks to me. So theres something nobody else has mentioned on this board, ban the good paying ads from your sites and see what happens, if they sign up with you permanently you keep their url in the exclude list so they dont waste adword money on your site.
It is far better to have a yearly payment of £XXX for one ad than the small figures G decides we can have.
We are the ones who pick up the crumbs G leaves behind, stopping scrapers / spam sites is not going to put any more $$$ in your account, forget it.
IMHO soon, all contextual advertising will pay peanuts, when its widely available, we wont be able to make half of what we make now, so I am using adsense as a tool to generate long term advertising revenue, if your site works they will want to be there.
| 10:26 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
hehe, you guys (whingers) make me laugh.
Why is a visitor from a scraper site any less important that lets say a forum?
the google ads on the scraper sites are 100% relevent to what the user typed into yahoo/google etc... the content may be utter crap, but the ads will be exactly what the user was looking for. I would go as far as to say that click throughs from scraper sites are possibly more profitable for the advertisers.
quit your whinging and get on with your own lives, and you will see your monthly adsense cheque increase. Sit on here whining all day like a bunch of kids who have just had their lunch money stolen and your monthly cheque will NOT increase.
You can spend all year talking about solutions to scraper/spam sites, but just like virus` and virus protection software, both will keep evolving, find a way of preventing todays scrapers and they will make an even better tool to spam the search engines by tommorow, its a sad fact, but you will not get rid of them.
For the record i dont own a scraper site!
| 10:41 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I'm not a whiner but when you have had one of your sites scraped for the ENTIRE front page, word for word, whuch by the way took a lot of thought and time to write, it makes you sick! one does not even use adsense but sells other ads. Both are PR 0 for crying out loud!
YES, I would like to see their sites gone from all search engines AND the owners slow roasted over an open pit then boiled in oil!
Sorry, kinda lost my cool for a minute...I HATE SCRAPERS! I made a few changes now we will see which one of them gets hit with dup penalty.
| 10:45 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
and ref the example of a business man handing out business cards at a criminal court.
That is assuming that people who click ads on scraper sites are the same types of people as the scraper site owners.
If you put an adsense box on this forum and one on a scraper site, i would almost guarantee the scraper site would have a higher conversion rate. Why? because the scraper site is targeting 1 EXACT phrase per page, whereas the ads on this forum could be one of thousands of ads.
| 10:46 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Ann, i have personally seen a few scraper sites in my time, i like to beleive that you should keep your enemies closer. But i am yet to see a scraper site that copies anything more than 2 or 3 lines from your site, thus the chances of a dup content ban are very slim.
| 10:50 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I have tested dupe content over a number of sites, the ORIGINAL site was never penalised the others were, and they were only penalised by G, so if your content has been scraped you dont need to worry, as deano says, whiners need to concentrate and make more content for adsense, thats why publishers are whining, because scrapers are getting more money from doing very little, we will never make more than G wants us to make, and scrapers probably do get paid MORE than content sites as their whole page is spot on to keywords searched for thats how & why they generate their pages.
| 10:56 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I can safely say that I now have seen 2 sites that took all the words from my front page....not just 2 or 3 lines. Of course they did not copy my internal links.
Will sticky you the urls if you would like to prove it to yourself. LOL
| 11:02 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Ann, i believe you.
Generally they take a few lines, but to be honest that doesnt make it any better than stealing the entire page, both suck.
It is also possible for the scrapers to use constantly changing content, so like i said before, find a way to make the current set of scraper sites worthless and they will simply make bigger, better and faster ways within days. Just et on with your own sites and you will be fine.
| 11:02 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|because scrapers are getting more money from doing very little |
Time to get into the scraper business then? It's surely tempting and Adsense doesn't seem to care with making money that way, so why would I hmm..
| 11:07 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
You're right about getting on with it. I am fixing to change the entire look of the site around and break up that page into several with content added to them...make it harder to scrape that much at a time. I have already rewritten 95% of it. Although it is basically the same information, just reworded and changed around.
| 11:12 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Dutch_dude, i would say the reason NOT to bother with scraper sites is this:
1) for every page you make there will be approx 1000 other scraper sites competing for that phrase, many of the serious scrapers also have backlink techniques that can get them at least 10,000 backlinks within days, can you compete with that? if not your sites will not be seen.
2) Will you be ok if adsense bans your account and thus you get paid zero?
3) Will you be ok with the fact that your sites will be banned within 2 months? and thus you will need to be making new sites on a daily basis, infact you will prob need 6-8 hours a day to keep making the new sites.
4) will you be ok knowing that your income is highly volitile, and that one set of algo changes could wipe out your entire income?
5) Contrary to popular belief you dont just click a button and sit back whilst the scraper software makes thousands of pages, i have seen them in action and to make any money you MUST make an individual template for each site, so are you ok spending 4-5 hours per day on template creation? this now means your average day will be 10-14 hours of solid work, for very short term gains.
In summary, you will have to work as hard if not harder than you are currently doing, and you will need to do it 365 days a year, unlike legit sites where you can make 1 great site and then sit back for 3 years and watch it grow.
being a webmaster is for most people a hobby, making scraper sites is a job, and the novelty will quickly wear off.
| 11:46 am on Jun 13, 2005 (gmt 0)|
You might know more about how much work goes in them then I do, but I don't think most scraper sites are that difficult to make when you are a decent programmer.
Just feed some keywords you want to target to a script and it will scrape Yahoo (easiest searchengine to do that I understood)
I will probably not do that as what you say about making quality sites being a solid source of income is very true and it makes me feel a lot better when I get emails or forumposts from visitors who found my site useful.
But it would be an interesting application to make and I'm curious when I flat out submitted the scraper site to Adsense if they would approve it. (I think they will)
As for competition, it's not that big of an issue I think, people look for combinations of keywords that are nowhere found on the Internet all the time. When you are the only site providing that you don't need much PR, one incoming link would probably be enough. Also it's easy to let a program generate more "content". Most would never appear in any SERP but who cares, some will and that's where the money is made.
And banning my account? First of all I don't think they will as many scrapersites I reported still have Adsense. And opening a new account isn't that difficult.
| This 43 message thread spans 2 pages: 43 (  2 ) > > |