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Google AdSense Forum

This 47 message thread spans 2 pages: 47 ( [1] 2 > >     
Is cheating Google that Easy?
A test on Google Ads.
pawas




msg:1379243
 5:02 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I signed up with a new account using fake information for testing purpose.
After i got confitmation for the adsense account. I added the banner code to the main page. Then what i did is, right clicked the Adsense AD and copied the link code which leads to the advertisers site.
I hyperlinked all the links on the main page to the link code i copied from the google ad.
After 24 hours i checked the stats and, what i saw was amazing, I had 88 click for 203 impressions and earned 12.44$
Please note that i don't want to fraud google, i only wanted to test the google system.
its now 6 days and no ban on account or any thing against what i am doing.
How come google not determine that these clicks were false.

 

oddsod




msg:1379244
 5:04 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

LOL. Full marks for ingenuity.

beren




msg:1379245
 5:09 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

note that i don't want to fraud google

No, you're defrauding the advertisers. Who may or may not have to pay for those clicks, even if Google figures out your scam.

wheelie34




msg:1379246
 5:19 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I can just picture all the noob's now!

unreviewed




msg:1379247
 5:25 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I hope you are not the "pawas" that shows up in a Google search. Shooting your own foot off perhaps?

Andreals




msg:1379248
 5:45 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Whether you are doing this for testing purposes or not your action is fraud and could be prosecuted as a crime. If you cut it off at $12 you're probably safe but committing fraud to "test the system" is not cool, to say the least.

A.

oddsod




msg:1379249
 5:49 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Guys, guys...

...new account using fake information

He's not going to get paid. Or the cheque's going to be returned with addressee not found. At some point Google is going to close the account and no money would have been paid out. The chances are that the advertisers will get refunds. If Pawas was looking to benefit from this fraud he wouldn't have disclosed the "loophole".

I think we should concentrate on the central issue. There could be others getting away with this fraud. If indeed it's a hole Google needs to plug it.

diverman




msg:1379250
 5:53 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I wouldn't think this issue to be too terribly difficult to mitigate. If they used an encrypted token that contained a timestamp, then ads could have a reasonable time period to be "invalid".

This would, of course, invalidate users that read a page forever and then go to click an ad... but if the time period were something like an hour, it should be reasonable. Those looking to get around this would need to continually monitor for valid tokens and update the links on their site. Of course, this is very possible as well. :)

Google? Have you thought this through? :)

-Alex

diverman




msg:1379251
 5:55 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Maybe I should have looked before replying. There is a bunch of encrypted data in the link. I'm guessing they have some mechanism to manage this type of issue, but I'd love to know of some verification of this.

-Alex

asp4bunnies




msg:1379252
 5:57 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

They could use an expiring encryption with their links so that 5 minute after an ad appears, the link in the ad won't work anymore (and a new one will be generated in it's place). This would help keep this kind of crap to a minimum.

Bluepixel




msg:1379253
 6:06 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't know how adsense for newsletters is handled, but you could take those links (I guess they are not dynamicly loaded) and add them to a page.

But nice and interesting try :)

StephenBauer




msg:1379254
 6:07 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

You just have not given your ploy enough time...you will be discovered shortly. There are all sorts of codes in the link for just this sort of purpose...expiry, click count per link (at Google receiving end), etc.

Two URLs for the same ad from different page loads <have different data in the query string>

[edited by: tedster at 6:44 pm (utc) on June 2, 2005]
[edit reason] fix side scrolling + remove specifics [/edit]

FatalRemedy




msg:1379255
 6:28 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yeah,
Its not easy to cheat google, hell.. I find it hard just to stay legit with google. I had an account closed on me, and they wouldnt tell me why "fraudulent clicks" I flipped my top, and couldnt get any information out of them on what exactly I did wrong...

I think it was becuase I click ads once or twice, every once and awhile I would mistakenly click the ads, Now im VERY careful.. But most likely around pay time, they'll terminate your account.

pawas




msg:1379256
 7:10 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

HEY GUYS, Stop blaming me....
I think i need to clear few things..

The test was of 24 Hours, I took down the website after 24 hours, the total money earned was 12.44$ ,
I didn't mean i am testing this system for 6 days, I meant to say that its 6 days and still 12.44$ are in my account and the account is active, no earnings were made after 24 hours. I know i am not going to get these 12.44$ because the information i gave was fake.
If i was to fraud then y should i post such a topic here?
Intead of blaming try to focus on the issue.
I think you understand now.
Thanks.

AbsintheSyringe




msg:1379257
 7:17 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm sorry but I'll have to say you're doing is .. obtuse.

Doing what you did is the easiest way to get your account terminated, then how are you going to get paid fake information?

If you dont get terminated, you'll definetely get terminated when the payments are about to be issued.

I had 88 click for 203 impressions and earned 12.44$
- from same IP, around 80% CTR you're going down.

The fun part is after you're terminated, everyone who gets into their adsense from your IP get's termanited for invalid clicks. After this one you'll be "testing" google how to get and keep your account.

pawas




msg:1379258
 7:27 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm sorry but I'll have to say you're doing is .. obtuse.
Doing what you did is the easiest way to get your account terminated, then how are you going to get paid fake information?

If you dont get terminated, you'll definetely get terminated when the payments are about to be issued.

I had 88 click for 203 impressions and earned 12.44$

- from same IP, around 80% CTR you're going down.

The fun part is after you're terminated, everyone who gets into their adsense from your IP get's termanited for invalid clicks. After this one you'll be "testing" google how to get and keep your account.

Thats what i want to check, if google terminates it or not.
Payments are about to be issued? i think google pays when you have done 100$ or more, i said that i made only 12.44$ during that test, and after that i discontinued it. Now i am looking if google is going to disable it or not.
i didn't signed up with google from my IP, never logged in through my IP or from my PC.
I know my original account will not be affected.

pawas




msg:1379259
 7:35 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

from same IP, around 80% CTR you're going down.

You didn't understand the concept. Read the topic carefully.

Noel




msg:1379260
 7:35 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hmmm.. Everytime I reload an AdSense add I see the same publisher/add, but the scrambled code in the URL is not the same!

Not sure how you got your 12.44, but I'm 99% sure that what you are "testing" did not make that!

It could be that maybe only one click on "all" the links did the trick, but after that the "link" is (I think) no good anymore. (it would be easy for google to make it like that)

Did you only have the "links" on that page, or did you also have an AdSense block on it?

voices




msg:1379261
 7:43 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

You are not getting paid, but that doesn't mean that google isn't keeping their part of the money. The customer may still be charged.

bobothecat




msg:1379262
 7:53 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Although I don't condone 'gaming the system' ... I think pawas should be commended for bringing this obvious Adsense flaw to public light - I'm sure there's already a fix to this being done upstream.

Dantol




msg:1379263
 8:38 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

They are NOT going to ban you. In fact, getting BANNED from Google is harder than hitting Jackpot on Slot Machines. Believe me. Your account will remain active for weeks to come. Wanna bet? I know websites who beg their visitors to click on AdSense, I reported few of them. They are still in business, they didn't even remove message "Please click on my Ads".

Webwork




msg:1379264
 9:07 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

It appears that a new code is generated each time an ad is displayed, even on a reload of the same page, so it would appear that this tactic is doomed to failure.

As to why income is being recorded that's hard to say. It might be recorded simply as a record of fraud that could be used to prosecute the poster. Just because he employed false info doesn't mean that his identity can never be determined.

Dear Poster: If you wished to "test" G's system you might have simply run your hypothetical past Google - without even opening an account - and G in turn might have explained why it wouldn't work. You could have sent an email expressing a concern anonymously, some sort of "I want to express my concern . . . could this happen".

It just doesn't look all that honest or benevolent what you did and how you went about doing it. I see nothing to praise. Indeed, it almost appears that you came here to gloat about how easily you were able to game Google. Yet, a little thought and investigation - such as seeing how a unique code appears to be generated for each ad display - should have stopped you in your tracks.

Listen: You've got brains and curiousity. Both are pretty good things to have in your arsenal. Apply them in more creative and legitimate ways and chances are you'll have much to gloat about. Just don't do it, don't gloat. Do well and you won't even have to seek approval. It will just come to you. ;)

Rodney




msg:1379265
 10:13 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

They are NOT going to ban you. In fact, getting BANNED from Google is harder than hitting Jackpot on Slot Machines. Believe me. Your account will remain active for weeks to come. Wanna bet? I know websites who beg their visitors to click on AdSense, I reported few of them. They are still in business, they didn't even remove message "Please click on my Ads".

Are you 100% sure about this. Just because you see ads on the site doesn't mean they are "still in business" after being reported.

I think Google WILL ban people for activity like this, as has been reported in this forum several times in the "my account has been cancelled" threads.

gamb




msg:1379266
 10:35 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

i bet you don't get banned.

If you click on the same adwords ad 8 times per day for a week and just don't do it one after the other, the advertiser will get charged 56 times....I think they aren't terribly strict when it comes to fraud....

fearlessrick




msg:1379267
 12:00 am on Jun 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Nice going, Pawas. Keep up the good work. It's refreshing to see that some people don't just accept anything at face value.

StephenBauer




msg:1379268
 1:10 am on Jun 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

If you really think about it...(and I am no Adwords user, yet).

If Google bans a site or AdSense account, what does that really mean!? I think it would mean that no revenue will be conveyed to the account "owner".

That would have to hold true for if you think about it, if the "banee" leaves their code in place, Google can either return nothing/blank, return PSAs, or return relevant ads...relevant ads, hmm. Why not!? Freebie for the advertisers (and maybe a little something for Google but at a severe discount). Who really knows in the cloud that is Google? I could see them just serving some free ads or PSAs and not worry about it.

Anyone care to speculate on this!? Just rambling maybe...

jhood




msg:1379269
 3:57 am on Jun 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

This is really no different from conducting a random mugging and saying that, although you got only $12, your motive was purely research -- i.e., to determine whether it is possible to mug someone and steal his or her money.

I have never quite understood why figuring out how to game Google or other online systems is praiseworthy while business executives who screw their investors and armed thugs who rob banks are condemned. Fraud is fraud.

Sharper




msg:1379270
 4:27 am on Jun 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

I almost hesitate to say it, but...

Worse would be javascript on the page (triggereing after adsense loads, like the various stats trackers) that actively changed the page's other link destinations to match the current links in the adsense block.

Of course, either way it's a matter of time before someone uses the adsense feedback link to report you if you had such a thing setup.

Sid_Egg




msg:1379271
 4:52 am on Jun 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

While I have to agree, it won't work (for long) because that encrypted info probably includes everything about you: time of page load, your ip, etc: why couldn't you write a program (php/js/whatever) that dynamically grabs the ad, gets the link (through some fancy parsing of their messy code) and replaces the links on your page?

Sobriquet




msg:1379272
 5:26 am on Jun 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

I dont think google will ban you unless u go and dance in front of them personally and show them what fraud you can do..

There are hundreds of banned people stories but there are thousands of cheap ( anti tos ) trick sites. adsense code on error pages of entire datacenters and servers. google doesnt bother to do anything about them maybe because they dont have enough time or people to look into the frauds.

It is against the TOS of WW forum or else I would haev sugegsted all of us to List these anti tos trick sites whick cause loss to advertisers. I pay for adwords and i hate to see my own ads appearing to thise sick trick sites. i have banned sevral url's as an advertiser and complained to google wihtout any effect.

Pawas. maybe you ( or I or anyone) can do one more experiment with the system. After what you have done and seen, let us ( if ur url is not really important ), let us complain to google and see if they do anything at all.

Well, It is important to be honest, but if the king closes his eyes, dacoities would happen.

This 47 message thread spans 2 pages: 47 ( [1] 2 > >
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