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Further declines in earnings.
sr123

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 6:46 am on May 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've been in the Adsense program for almost a year and a half. During this time I have worked very hard to create a highly informative and unique site in my category.

For the first year my earnings were steadily on an upwards trend. Now, I am getting the highest click-through rate I've ever had, yet for the past 4 months my earnings have steadily declined. The decline is alarming to me.

In my category of site, there are a ton of useless and crappy scaper sites, or sites with little to no useful content. And many of these have adsense in them. Obviously this is diluting the pool for high-quality high-earnings ads.

Pages that I publish on my site typically require significant effort for me to produce because of the quality, yet my competition can just spew garbage and get accepted into the Google Adsense program. (Not all of my competition are bad, but the majority are pretty bad).

Then of course there's the"smart-pricing" which I would have thought would have benefited sites like mine that produce quality content and take time to write reviews, articles and editorials that are original and useful to people interested in the category that my site fits in to. Yet I am seeing the opposite it seems.

All of this is very disheartening to me because I have learned that others in my category who are content scapers or just fodder generators are earning more than I am.

Does anyone think it's worthwhile to contact Google and ask them what's going on? At the rate that things are going this will be the fifth month where my earnings are on a downwards trend.... The effort almost doesn't seem worth it anymore. Why should I pour my heart and soul into a site when the unscrupulous, in-it-for-the-quick-cash types are earning more than I am while my earnings are diminishing?

sr123

 

walrus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 7:50 am on May 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

<Why should I pour my heart and soul into a site when the unscrupulous, in-it-for-the-quick-cash types are earning more than I am while my earnings are diminishing? >

A question i bet a great number of adsense users are asking themselves lately.

Best you can do is take the advice of the members here that'll remind you to keep building useful content, optimize best you can, experiment with ad placement and hang in there,
still the best game in town for most people.

OddDog

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 7:53 am on May 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

and diversify and start another site.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 8:05 am on May 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

Why should I pour my heart and soul into a site when the unscrupulous, in-it-for-the-quick-cash types are earning more than I am while my earnings are diminishing?

You've got to take the long view, and you also should be asking yourself whether the site would have a reason to exist without AdSense. if not, maybe you should be considering other options.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 8:23 am on May 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

Let me grab my violin and put your sad song to music...

We've all been there.

Re-evaluate your situation, do some research on your competition and beat them at their own game.

It's obvious it can be done as they did it to you :)

spaceylacie

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 11:49 am on May 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

I started to give some advice, but decided that I better not say it.... You might have hit the nail on the head saying that scraper sites in field are diluting the earnings pool.

I agree with the previous poster, beat them at their own game. You gotta be ruthless sometimes.

topdog

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 1:27 pm on May 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

Why worry about what others are making?

Concentrating on things you have no influence over does not help your situation.

Work on the things that are within your influence. If what you are doing is not generating the desired results, then change your actions to get different results.

Earnings decline, you lose positioning on the search engines... so then what?

You have no influence on the scrapers. You have no influence over how Google ranks sites. So what do you have influence over? Your actions.

Change your actions - get different results.

In the same token... if what you are doing generates lame results - by doing the same thing over and over again - don't be surprised if you keep getting the same lame results.

Certain actions produce certain results.

xenithforever

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 4:55 am on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hello SR123,

My opinion with Adsense, that seems to be driving some people to upset and dispair is:

Google is experimenting with Adsense as it is still in it's early stages. (Though several years old)

Once Google has everything in place, there will be more stability, however, that Never will mean they are finished testing, just as we Always are testing in some form or other.

With Googles resources of many thousands of servers, they are trying to get to a "Base" average to what they believe the advertisers will be content results wise.

Google will take "sections" unbeknownst to any of us, and conduct massive "time sensitive tests.

Unfortunately for most of us, for these tests, Google will use sites bringing millions of page views compared to you and I.

The reasons for this are obvious:
By testing with the biggest producers, they have a better feel and can also be more accurate as opposed to using thousands of average websites.

All that said, always remember that Google controls the shots and will continue to do so.
There game, their rules.

One final thing I have to say:
Regarding earnings and those who desire to make a living at it.

It can definitely be done, But, you must have persistance, and a positive plan which must be executed.

Best to all of you,

xenith

elsewhen

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 5:07 am on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

i think another under-appreciated factor that can lead to decline in adsense revenue is advertiser savviness.

google makes the mainstream press nearly every day, and this exposure brings new advertisers to adwords in droves. most that sign up do not understand the intricacies of adwords, and i am sure that some, if not many, overbid for the clicks they receive.

both google and adsense publishers are the beneficiaries of this overbidding; but as the advertisers become more astute they learn to squeeze more and more out of their ad-spends.

if a handful of the advertisers in your niche were overbidding in the past, your revenue may decrease as they gain wisdom.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 11:43 am on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

"still the best game in town for most people."

For now.

walrus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 5:12 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

<for now>
I believe that.
People go where the money is and if the cpm continues to drop like this Yahoo will definitely steal a lot of publishers, and even if they arnt much better the rush of thousands of publishers leaving the program will effect stock prices immediately and maybe earnings would drop even more, though the rush to yahoo may cause better pay for remaining Adsense pubs.
Seems like the new corporate Google and smart pricing have nickle and dimed away the incentive to develop, the more you create the less the return.

I sympathize to all those experiencing this, its extremely disappointing to see steady earnings for a year and then as the traffic doubles the earnings half.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 5:43 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

People go where the money is and if the cpm continues to drop like this Yahoo will definitely steal a lot of publishers

Everybody keeps assuming that Yahoo will want to recruit dissatisfied AdSense publishers. Isn't it more likely that Yahoo will want to recruit successful AdSense publishers?

To use an analogy, if you were a sales manager and you were trying to hire away sales reps from a competitor, would you recruit the top-selling reps or the reps who were having trouble meeting their quotas?

and even if they arnt much better the rush of thousands of publishers leaving the program will effect stock prices immediately

Investors don't care about the number of publishers in the AdSense network; they care about the numbers on the quarterly earnings reports. As for the "rush of thousands of publishers leaving the program," even if that were to happen, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Why? Because unprofitable publishers represent overhead.

If you aren't doing well with AdSense, don't take it for granted that Yahoo will be your savior--or that advertisers and advertising networks exist to subsidize publishers.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 5:55 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Everybody keeps assuming that Yahoo will want to recruit dissatisfied AdSense publishers. Isn't it more likely that Yahoo will want to recruit successful AdSense publishers?"

Those categories aren't mutually exclusive. You can be a fairly successful publisher (adsense earnings wise) and yet, based on an intimate knowledge of the niche you operate in, still feel dissatisfaction with the payouts that are mediated by an automaton approach (i.e. fleece pricing).

Until a viable alternative exists, you have to lump it or like it. After a viable alternative rears it's head....look out (maybe, possibly, who really knows)

spaceylacie

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 6:52 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yahoo isn't going to know who is who if they start their own type of thing. Do you really think Google will give Yahoo this info?

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 7:49 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I doubt that google would tell yahoo which direction the wind was blowing prior to spitting

walrus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 8:46 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

<Isn't it more likely that Yahoo will want to recruit successful AdSense publishers?>

EFV, i always read your feedback and always appreciate your posts as a voice of reason and experience but what kind of stratgey would that be to go after satisfied pubs only, who being successful, will be the least likely to jump ship
for what could be a very marginal increase in revenue. As Ownerim stated , they may just be sick of getting washed.

I don't see yahoo as a savior, i'm just saying Corporate Adsense seems to be pushing the envelope with publishers, and even though there are many that are still satisfied, there seems to be a growing trend of complainers. I read a long time ago how complainers post, happy people dont, and thats why there are so many more negative posts.
However i have another theory that many are just to disgusted to spend the time posting there worries. That is how i have been for 3 months now, i just keep thinking, why bother posting, i took all the advice from here and steadily increased traffic month after month, clicks and cpm continues to tank, while i get link requests from new sites with Adsense ads all you see above the fold.

Now someone may pass the cheese and start the violins...

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 9:18 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yahoo isn't going to know who is who if they start their own type of thing. Do you really think Google will give Yahoo this info?

They can look for sites they want to recruit. They wouldn't be the first PPC program to do that.

They can also take things like traffic, topic, and type of content into account when reviewing applicants. They don't need AdSense account data to have a pretty good idea of which types of sites are likely to perform well on their network.

spaceylacie

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 9:25 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just don't see anybody making a business decision without actual numbers in front of them, especially Google or Yahoo.

I also just don't see Yahoo emailing potential clients to invite them to their network. They are big enough that clients come to them.

bamamamma

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 9:30 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

walrus, you hit it right on the money... the same situation with me. When 1/2 of Google's source of income (publishers who display ads) are not being spoken to and taken care of as as well the other half (neither - publishers NOR advertisers exists exclusively without the other) or even addressed at all - my sense of frustration is starting to peak as well.

I am especially annoyed that in such a large and well known forum such as this one, the Google Adwords thread gets responses all the time from the "Adwords Advisor" but rarely does anyone poke their head in here and see what is happening.

And indeed, when my ads are showing links that are to other sites with more Google ads above the fold or redirecting to crapola sites, I am concerned for my visitors as well. I don't want to be involved in a program that sends them to those sites. They trust me.

TheDonster

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 10:41 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Even though I've only just started with Google, I have to agree with EFV on Yahoo not being the white horse everyone here is waiting for. If Yahoo is to make any kind of impact on Google, who has been selling targeted context ads for 2 years now, their only hope is to undercut and outsell to gain market share from already established Google customers. From the outset I cannot see how Y! would pay MORE to its publishers with a brand new untested program. For sure there will be software issues to work out, testing (Heck Google still is ironing & testing) and a long road to eventual profitablity. Competition is always good for the consumer since this will certainly drive prices down but unfortunately, not more money into publisher's pockets. Whether or not Y! can maintain their assault long enough to gain a large enough share will be the question. I think as soon as Y! starts, the posts about lower gains every day here will absolutely skyrocket.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 10:51 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just don't see anybody making a business decision without actual numbers in front of them, especially Google or Yahoo.

How do you think all of us got accepted into the AdSense network?

I also just don't see Yahoo emailing potential clients to invite them to their network. They are big enough that clients come to them.

1) Publishers aren't clients. Advertisers are clients, and one could say that ad networks are the publishers' clients, but publishers are vendors.

2) It's a bit early to make assumptions about whether Yahoo will try to recruit publishers from Google's network or wait for Google's disillusioned publishers and discards to to apply. My guess would be that Yahoo will try to recruit high-quality or high-profile publishers in various sectors and use them as examples to help in recruiting others (not unlike Google's use of case histories, which got more attention in the early days of AdSense than they do now). Yahoo may be a big company, but the Yahoo Publisher Network will be a newbie playing catch-up, and it wouldn't make sense for YPN to simply hang out its shingle and wait for publishers to beat a path to its door.

mrfragger

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 11:16 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google has went from good about a month ago to outrageously low. I doubt I'll be able to pay my hosting bills now. If Yahoo or MSN doesn't roll out soon I'll just have to call this website stuff quits. Google was once great till it went public. Just like the Wynn Hotel which has to make (profit not gross) $3 million/day if it wishes to pay back the investors the 2.7 billion.

shoreline

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 11:28 pm on May 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Soon, very soon Microsoft and Yahoo will jump into the game. Until then, just keep creating sites with useful content that keeps your visitors coming back.

The numbers have to continue to grow for Google, so they either take it from the publishers by paying less or charge the advertiser more. Because they’re the only game in town, they’ll pay the publishers less.

Others will jump in this game forcing greater payouts for publishers, of that there is no doubt! They are all aware of the profit to be made and realize that success depends on a strong introduction and a flawless operation.

It’s only a matter of time.

By the way, I am seeing a big 35% drop in earnings today. I usually don’t mention this and write it off to standard fluctuations, but this is one of the worst days in many months. I hope this is not another adjustment.

sailorjwd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 12:02 am on May 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Ditto.
Today was a slap in the face... down 35% too.
After expanding content another 15% in the last two weeks it is hard to keep doing it. But if things are as they have been it will be back in 2-3 days.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 12:47 am on May 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Odd that you both mentioned 35 percent. I just did the numbers and I am missing 35 percent as well. And I also just had some new content indexed and it's beginning to rank in searches.
So, again, another example of working harder to make less.

I read something recently that criticized google for these weaknesses: overreliance on automation and extremely poor customer service skills. I'm not at all surprised. Frankly, I don't see how yahoo can do worse. In fact, they would pull off a huge business coup by pulling the rug out from under google by capitalizing on these weaknesses and offering an advertising product that didn't you sling you around like a mouse on a rollercoaster.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 12:53 am on May 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

whoa. Just checked my pages. my site has nothing to do whatsoever with the guaranteed lowest rates on hotels, or 100% free and legal downloads, or even tens of thousands of sexy singles just waiting to meet you.

thanks boogle.

fearlessrick

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 1:06 am on May 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just need to chime in on the "work harder, make less" mantra. It's all so very Orwellian and fitting for a company that purports to do no evil yet answers to nobody.

Where's that ASA, anyhow? As a PR guy, I don't think he's really much more than a glad hand. Heck, he doesn't even entertain technical issues.

Maybe G could just post a smiley every now and then to make us all feel something...

sailorjwd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 1:13 am on May 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

overrim,
Just noticed my ads are significantly off topic too.

I don't think we'll see Advisor here. He only likes to talk about good news.

I've asked Goober, I mean Google, about off topic ads before and they said it happens when they get a big influx of new advertisers - takes a day or two for the smart pricing to get ads back to normal since they have to give everyone a least one chance to succeed with their ads.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 1:16 am on May 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

"If Yahoo is to make any kind of impact on Google, who has been selling targeted context ads for 2 years now, their only hope is to undercut and outsell to gain market share from already established Google customers."

Yahoo already has an advertiser base and I doubt they'll seek to draw more advertisers in by undercutting themselves. YPN is an attempt to pull in revenue that they are currently forfeiting to google and those who advertise on yahoo probably do so because the ROI is perceived to be better.

However, to make their program go, Yahoo WILL need publishers--lots and lots of publishers, since google currently owns this thing. And the only way to get publishers in large numbers, aside from "ye lot of scurvy banned ones", will be to offer a better deal. Even those who have Post traumatic stress from the google rollercoaster still won't jump ship unless the money is better.

That's my bet: the terms and payouts will be better. Hopefully, there will be more transparency as well. At the same time, I'm guessing they'll be more hands on and may want to screen a publisher's additions to the network just as they would the website that a publisher initially signs up with.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6600 posted 1:18 am on May 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

"takes a day or two for the smart pricing to get ads back to normal since they have to give everyone a least one chance to succeed with their ads."

That's certainly interesting. Also, very convenient for them.

"Maybe G could just post a smiley every now and then to make us all feel something..."

Broke out laughing on that one.

This 41 message thread spans 2 pages: 41 ( [1] 2 > >
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