| 8:28 pm on Sep 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Where is Google's Table of Contents anyway?
| 8:34 pm on Sep 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
daunk - do you mean that your competitor is asking visitors to click on his AdSense ads? (since you posted this in the AdSense forum).
If so, this is the link you want to report it to:
| 8:38 pm on Sep 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Hi well unfortunately I did not save my mail to google (thanks for the link JUST what I needed)
Yes he posted on the forum announcing he had joined adsense and i quote one bit: "This is a pay per click advertising plan so I only get paid if people visit the sites... Feel free to take a look at the advertisers sites and find out if they are any good."
In my opinion thats inducing people to click to help out hte site not because they are interested in products as he goes on to talk about the huge cost of running the site etc....
I wait in anticipation for a reply from google, I wouldn't want him to be chucked out (well I wouldn't mind heh heh heh :D ) but seriously I just don't want his site to give advertisers a crap lead and so thereby punish my site which has done nothing wrong other than being in the same category...
I hope I explained myself ok and would like to know what you would have done in the same circumstances?
| 8:50 pm on Sep 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
You can even try to remind him of AdSense TOC and ask him not to offer any inducements ;)
| 10:25 pm on Sep 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Geez daunk, you are such a swell guy.
|too much information|
| 10:48 pm on Sep 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
daunk, that's exactly why I pulled my ads from content placement. I was getting way to many bad leads and it was costing me far too much money.
I think it's great that you turn someone in. You're My Hero! ;o)
| 10:54 pm on Sep 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Can I ask a stupid question, what is TOC? I used to think it's TOS for Terms of Service...
anyways, just email your standard adsesne support addy, that always workded for me.
| 11:32 pm on Sep 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I log into my Adsense publisher account, then hit the contact button at the top. This way they know who it is from and know I am concerned about fraudulent clicks. I have reported several already.
| 11:59 pm on Sep 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
How can an advertiser determine which clicks are coming from SERPS and which clicks are coming from content sites?
I am serious, I would like to know if the referrer is different.
The question is open to everyone, but I would like to hear how too much information achieved it.
| 12:04 am on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
because in adword reports, they are reported seperately and you can choose to pull your ads of "content sites".
| 12:26 am on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
loanuniverse - There are several ways to do it but I'm not sure you will get you answer from anyone here. Think about it though. It really is easy to figure out where the clicks originate from and it is easy to find out the revenue split.
| 4:55 am on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|Geez daunk, you are such a swell guy. |
No doubt that was a sarcastic comment. I, on the other hand, applaud daunk for doing what he has and have done so myself, for the very same reason. Unfortunately, Google has taken no action, which makes no sense at all, since this is a publisher-induced violation. Maybe some of the resources they are devoting to the fraudulent clicks issues should be redirected to policing the sites themselves.
| 8:02 am on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Daunk and Blue_Fin:
Google has always proved that they are capable to discover fraudulent activities and/or breakers of their TOS - they don't need squealers.
Am I the only person here who doesn't like this vigilante attitude?...
| 8:09 am on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Am I the only person here who doesn't like this vigilante attitude?...
No need for squealers, just chill out.
| 8:13 am on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I wonder why there is somthing better to do?
It all seems rather petty to me.
| 9:37 am on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>Unfortunately, Google has taken no action,
As I understand it, Google does not, nor ever has, acted on individual complaints. That, by its nature, is time consuming, and people heavy.
Instead they rely on developing an automated way of solving the problem. If you complain about your competitors sneaky SEO, they will not act on that. What they do do though is to develop ways of detecting, say, white on white copy, small gifs, etc.
I would assume that they are doing the same thing with AdSense, both on click fraud, and "ungentlemanly conduct"
| 10:41 am on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Don't worry about the other guy - your *time* alone is worth more than that.
| 2:41 pm on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
"Google does not, nor ever has, acted on individual complaints."
This is not true with Adsense.
| 4:48 pm on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|No need for squealers, just chill out. |
I take it you are not an advertiser as well. I take it you would not mind paying to have people click on your link just so they can help out the site they use? As TMI stated earlier, bad leads and ROI are causing advertisers to opt out of adsense and just stick with SERPS.
What I'm saying is that people who ask their members who number many thousand to click on adsense advert are wasting advertisers money in large amounts, do you think this is legitimate?
No I didn't think so, unless perhaps the reason you don't want "squealers" as you term them is because you yourself are employing such tactics... Not very honest now is it?
| 4:55 pm on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|I take it you are not an advertiser as well. |
It probably isn't that. It probably is that the best thing to do would be to send that Webmaster an email telling him that what he is doing is against the TOS. Wouldn't that be refreshing?
I mean, the competing webmaster might not even be aware of his error. It reminds me how some people got in trouble earlier for running google's code alongside that of a banner network that was also showing google ads. This resulted in double serving until people got wise to disabling the similar campaigns.
It is a matter of not doing unto others.......
| 5:00 pm on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Who said I did not pursue that avenue first?
Not doing unto others what I wouldn't want done unto me. Well to be honest, I've spent my time read the TOS and FAQs, someone who can't manage to do these simple things let alone act upon an email I sent to them is hardly bright. Perhaps a nice friendly note from google will give them the wakeup call they need.
As if google would ban him lol, incedently I recieved a nice email back from google, saying they are watching :)
| 5:52 pm on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I'm not generally a fan of 'squealing' but I think in the case of AdSense, because it's an opt-in programme, a quick manual response unit is preferable to automated, scalable spam defences. (Not least because you can induce clicks on one page and have the AdPanels on a completely different page).
I think it would be relatively easy for Google to commission a small 'response' department responsible for checking out individual complaints (or, say, when a given site is complained about more than 5 times) and then sending off (generic?) letters explaining what general violations have been made with an indication that if the same matter has to be raised again (or twice more) it (could) lead to account termination.
Dealing as promptly as possible with deliberate or accidental violations now would make publishers more responsible about how they use the AdSense programme in the future and will cut the proportion of work Google has to do in the future by emphasising that AdSense is a strict, no-nonsense programme.
It would give advertisers more faith in AdSense and stop the potential avalanche of AdSense spam sites which I still fear we may see by the beginning of 2004.
After all, what do they say? It only takes one person to pee in the pool and we all end up swimming in...
| 10:35 pm on Sep 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Additionally, they're not even supposed to be IN the programme if they didn't read the TOS, that's basically contractual violation.
It's ont thing not to read the license agreement on a piece of shrinkwrap you just bought, it's another thing if you enter a potentially long term, high value business relationship were many depend on your good behaviour.
| 1:13 am on Sep 18, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Actually it shouldn't be too hard for Google to track TOS violators down themselves.
Just as an experiment I did a search on Google for
donation click on google ads
.. or something similar. The result was a nice big long list of everyone who had text along the lines of "make a donation to our site by clicking on the google ads to the right".
I would assume that this would also have occurred to the Google folks.
| 2:07 am on Sep 18, 2003 (gmt 0)|
LOL DavidP: That is a great idea.
If any adsense network quality guys are lurking around, make sure that if you do use DavidP's idea that you read the whole offending page since I noticed that the results do not necesarily mean that people are breaking the rules. On the other hand, I am sure that some people are going to get nabbed.
| 5:46 am on Sep 18, 2003 (gmt 0)|
A bit of refining of my query should result in fewer false positives.
I did also notice a few sites which had TOS-violating text when they were last crawled had since removed it. Maybe Google has started issuing warning notices rather than immediately exceuting miscreants.
| 12:18 pm on Sep 19, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|I take it you are not an advertiser as well |
I am actually :)
|perhaps the reason you don't want "squealers" as you term them is because you yourself are employing such tactics... Not very honest now is it? |
unfounded accusations now is it?
Like I said earlier you need to chill out :)
Have a good weekend :)
| 4:47 pm on Sep 19, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Hey to all those that say chill out, or that its petty to squeal on those you see doing wrong I say Wake up!
If I am spending good money on honest advertising I want to be sure the clicks I am paying for are honest, and are not induced or you have been persuaded in any way to click on my Add, I want them to come to my site through my advert because its what they are looking for or, at least be very interested in right?
"Not just throwing away good money for clicks that bring back nothing no ROI " I am sure I am not alone in this!
Even if Google are dealing with those that are breaking TOS for Adsense, it sometimes appears to us to be very slow in responding to reports & taking action, even when you can clearly see the site in question and its left to carry on breaking TOS, and Google has to some even been unfair when they get that goodbye email, like what i have read in some of the reports I have read here, because right now from what I have seen/read its been an automated process, and its a site that has tripped a switch then the big G sends out its dreaded Email.
So its very clear that even the big corps in this world do in fact need the little guys on the ground to point out some of those that are breaking the rules that Google have missed completely or they have just not found yet, and they need help from all of us, as in the end it affects us all, the longer these cheaters prosper, and maybe even then persuade others that would not normally cheat, to do the same cheating as well because the longer they get away with it the more they will boast to others and this will increase their confidence with cheating the system, but those paying to advertise will become less confident.
Be it Spam, link farms, doorway sites etc etc Google actually wants you to help them to help you, by reporting these cheaters because that's all they are, and they are normally the ones that cry the loudest when Google catches up with them.
If Advertisers loose confidence in Adwords and they start running less adds or spending less than they did before or could, or even worse use another source for Advertising then we will all be affected in what has turned out to be a good bit of extra income etc.
I for one run Adsense and I do not want them to click the on the Adds first, really I want them to buy from me instead that's why I have the website in the first place.
But the line of products, I sell the complete widget, and I get a lot of traffic where they are looking for the parts to make the complete Widget, which I do not supply and have no intention of doing so either, so I have a site that's evenly balance, in that if you do not want the complete Widget, there are links on the page saying hey you can get the parts for the complete Widget here (Google's Adds).
But there's no need at all for me to point this out or asks/beg them to click on the Adds to pay for my site or help to make a donation, as the Adds either blend in or stick out depending on what you are looking for anyway, so for me its a perfect partner and I really do honestly prefer if they bought from me rather than click on the Adds, but if they do not want the complete Widget, then at least I can earn a few $ sending them off to a place where they may find exactly what it is they are looking for and its all done the right way and in accordance with Google's Adsense TOS.
Maybe all those saying chill out etc, or forget being so petty, or no need to squeal, would not really be saying that if they were spending lots of money for nothing to help line the pockets of the cheaters of this world!
| 8:51 pm on Sep 19, 2003 (gmt 0)|
onfire: You should chill out.
My position is that before doing something that might possibly endanger someone else's livelihood. Maybe the best approach would be to point out to them that they are breaking the TOS and risk getting booted.
I have personally sent two comments to webmasters on sites that I browsed as a visitor regarding and "ads by google" skyscraper and a tribalfusion/fastclick/Burst Google syndication. I would do the same if I found someone that had posted a "support this site by clicking here".
Someone mentioned that if they are foolish enough not to have understood the agreement they got into they deserve to be kicked out. Well, there could be many reasons why this might be so. They could be young, inexperienced, speakers of other languages, etc.
Can you still report them in order to preserve network integrity? Sure it is your choice. Would it be better if you talked to them before doing so? IMHO, yes it would be better.
Also remember that while a few hundred US$ or a couple of thousand US$ might not be good money to some of us. Some webmasters are thrilled at being able to get this money. I just try not to hurt people. If I worked for Google, then that would be another matter, it would be my job to enforce.
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