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This 32 message thread spans 2 pages: 32 ( [1] 2 > >     
Why is there a G rep for adwords but not adsense?
Are publishers 2nd class citizens?
fearlessrick




msg:1454500
 8:30 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just a question, since there's a regular Google rep answering questions and providing assistance to adwords advertsiers on that board here on WebmasterWorld, why isn't there one when it comes to publishers?

Are we less important to G? Sure looks like it.

I'll admit, watching my earnings drop to nothing over the past few days has me questioning EVERYTHING about this program, of which we know virtually NOTHING. There's no way to verify ANY information. We get our checks once a month and are supposed to be happy and stay quiet no matter what.

It's a little ridiculous if you ask me.

 

elguapo




msg:1454501
 8:32 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

There is AdsenseAdvisor who posts here once in a bluemoon.

cornwall




msg:1454502
 8:36 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

AdSenseAdvisor

His WebmasterWorld profile [webmasterworld.com]

Member for 16 months, 98 posts, last post April 4th.

fearlessrick




msg:1454503
 8:41 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Really? Where is he? Can he explain why revenues don't ever stay at good levels?

Why is it, that when I add pages or make changes to ad positions or colors, and my stats go up to levels which I think are OK, they stay there for a few days and then go down? Not only do they go down, they go down to levels below what they were before I added new pages or made changes? Why is that? How can that be?

Why is it that they ALWAYS GO DOWN and never go back up on their own?

Why, once I make these changes, doesn't my revenue remain somewhat constant?

I'm fairly convinced that I'm not alone. That others have seen the same thing and I know they have posted concerns here. WHERE ARE THE ANSWERS?

Tropical Island




msg:1454504
 8:45 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

My best guess is that he is under strict instructions NOT to enter into discussions about revenues, CTR's or anything else related to individual accounts. It would be a no win situation.

bobothecat




msg:1454505
 8:47 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Why is it, that when I add pages or make changes to ad positions or colors, and my stats go up to levels which I think are OK, they stay there for a few days and then go down? Not only do they go down, they go down to levels below what they were before I added new pages or made changes? Why is that? How can that be?

Why is it that they ALWAYS GO DOWN and never go back up on their own?

Why, once I make these changes, doesn't my revenue remain somewhat constant?

The quote above is probably one reason why AdsenseAdvisor is hiding-out... who on earth would know the reason/answer to those questions?

Perhaps we should dial-up Dionne Warwick and her Physic Friends Network :)

[edited by: bobothecat at 8:55 pm (utc) on April 25, 2005]

Jenstar




msg:1454506
 8:52 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

AdSenseAdvisor isn't here at everyone's beck and call for every "my EPC has dropped" post - otherwise he or she would never get any other work done ;)

If you have a question or feedback for Google, contact them directly, and they welcome to the feedback. Don't rely on using forums as a way to give and receive feedback from Google.

Can he explain why revenues don't ever stay at good levels?

This isn't the case for many publishers.

Why is it, that when I add pages or make changes to ad positions or colors, and my stats go up to levels which I think are OK, they stay there for a few days and then go down? Not only do they go down, they go down to levels below what they were before I added new pages or made changes? Why is that? How can that be?

AdSense does fluctuate, and for reasons beyond what ad colors and positioning you use.

Why is it that they ALWAYS GO DOWN and never go back up on their own?

Like I said, this isn't the case for many publishers, and some have remarked here recently that they are doing better than ever.

Why, once I make these changes, doesn't my revenue remain somewhat constant?

There are many, many reasons why your revenue could fluctuate, some beyond your control and some within it. It would be hard for AdSenseAdvisor (or any Google employee) to comment on all reasons in every individual case of "my EPC dropped" post that is posted here.

I'm fairly convinced that I'm not alone. That others have seen the same thing and I know they have posted concerns here. WHERE ARE THE ANSWERS?

Contact Google directly for the specific answers you want as it pertains to your specific site(s).

Bottom line - if you are complaining that you aren't getting the feedback you want from AdSense, contact them directly, that is the one way you are certain to get a response.

ncreegan




msg:1454507
 9:02 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Forums are a black hole for anybody in that position -- but that sure doesn't preclude hiring some account reps, especially for larger accounts. Every other program I promote I have a rep that is always more than happy to talk to me. They even have phone numbers that go straight to their desks. It's almost like a real world business relationship.

[edited by: ncreegan at 9:04 pm (utc) on April 25, 2005]

fearlessrick




msg:1454508
 9:02 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Jen, thanks for trying.

I've written to G, and get nothing of substance.

Whatever. It's all a mystery. I suppose we should just accept that.

Later.

incrediBILL




msg:1454509
 9:08 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

If you have a question or feedback for Google, contact them directly, and they welcome to the feedback. Don't rely on using forums as a way to give and receive feedback from Google.

I used to advocate that but contacting Google directly has been less that satisying lately. I hadn't contacted them in months but had need in the last couple of weeks and deep cynical feelings are becoming overwhelming as I get:

- A canned response or
- An incomprehensible babbling response or
- Lip service to reported T&C violations (we will not spank our cash cows) or
- No response at all

On one hand we're told:

- Intellitxt and AdSense can't be used on the same page, on the other hand SEO Chat uses it like that all the time so I guess you need more than 1.5M page views to get that kind of special treatment.

- Don't alter Google HTML code, yet a couple of my competitors that get about half my traffic are happily stuffing the search box with pre-loaded keywords, so playing by the rules has no bearing

I could go on and on but playing by the rules doesn't seem to matter at this point so why bother but I know for sure I'll be the one to get zapped if I don't.

Bottom line is:

ADWORDS may pay the bills but without ADSENSE PUBLISHERS there would be no income from the content network and I can tell you when I write to the AdWord support I get MUCH BETTER RESPONSES than I get from the ADSENSE support, heck, I can even read most of them!

It's a matter of supply and demand and if enough upset publishers stop supplying pages....

You get my drift.

[edit]From now on I'm referring to them as NonSense support :)[/edit]

fearlessrick




msg:1454510
 9:20 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks, Bill. I knew I was not alone. More of us have to speak out.

ownerrim




msg:1454511
 10:22 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Like I said, this isn't the case for many publishers, and some have remarked here recently that they are doing better than ever."

Many ARE doing better than ever, myself included---but only because content is being continually added and links are being continually gained. I think a widespread feeling is that you have to work harder and harder for increasingly minimal gains...or simply to hold the same position. Mouse on a treadmill.

TheRookie




msg:1454512
 10:33 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think a widespread feeling is that you have to work harder and harder for increasingly minimal gains...or simply to hold the same position.

Maybe because there are others working even harder and passing you by...?

dregs33




msg:1454513
 11:01 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi

After reading all the updates and info on AdWords/Adsense in the last few days I have to agree with

"ADWORDS may pay the bills but without ADSENSE PUBLISHERS there would be no income from the content network and I can tell you when I write to the AdWord support I get MUCH BETTER RESPONSES than I get from the ADSENSE support, heck, I can even read most of them!"

Google has decided that Adwords is the way forward and The Adsense publishers can pick up the little pieces that are left.

dregs33

bobothecat




msg:1454514
 11:03 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Mouse on a treadmill.

Pretty-much the only way you'll make it with an online business... speaking from my own personal self-employed (21 year) experience mind-you.

novice




msg:1454515
 11:19 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

fearlessrick

There have been a few publishers that posted they were getting crappy ads on domain.com, but good ads on www.domain.com or vice versa. Could this be what you are experiencing?

I believe incrediBill suggested a redirect from domain.com to www.domain.com.

I have been reading your posts and that is quite a wierd situation you're in.

Hope you get it resolved.

AdSenseAdvisor




msg:1454516
 12:15 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)


Just a question, since there's a regular Google rep answering questions and providing assistance to adwords advertsiers on that board here on WebmasterWorld, why isn't there one when it comes to publishers?

Looks like it's time for a re-introduction ;-)

Allow myself to introduce... myself (*laughter from Austin Powers fans*). I'm AdSenseAdvisor by day, full-time Google employee by... well, day also. I'm here to answer questions and clear up any confusion. However, I may tend to stay away from the particularly sticky threads (as Jenstar mentioned). Additionally, I tend to let other WebmasterWorld members answer your questions and rightfully so- this forum is a great community and chock-full of AdSense experts who are not only extemely knowledgeable about AdSense and the contextual advertising industry, but very open and willing to help each other.

Are we less important to G? Sure looks like it.

By all means no! While I do have quite a ways to go if I want to compete with AdWordsAdvisor for # of posts, that shouldn't be an indicator of how important Google considers publishers. Unfortunately my other day job (working at Google) keeps me pretty busy. However, I do read this forum regularly and relay what I read here back to the AdSense team, so your comments are most definitely heard loud and clear.

Nice to meet you all ;)

ASA

fearlessrick




msg:1454517
 12:36 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm wasting my time here.

[edited by: fearlessrick at 1:05 am (utc) on April 26, 2005]

fearlessrick




msg:1454518
 12:41 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Novice, no, that's not it, but thanks for the suggestion. I think the problem is not mine, but G's, but they're in corporate denial.

Visi




msg:1454519
 12:51 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google is not going to discuss their business model in an open forum. As adsense publishers we have come to accept this. Compare the options available to you as a publisher and if you can generate a better income elsewhere then do it, if not then learn to accept that as an adsense publisher certain information is not available to you.

[edited by: Visi at 1:10 am (utc) on April 26, 2005]

fearlessrick




msg:1454520
 1:02 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Visi, your opinion is noted.

Leosghost




msg:1454521
 1:23 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Don't annoy "G"'s PR guy ( I know it's a guy ..don't ask me how ;) before the hair gel is set ...

BTW..The old ( pre IPO ) PR people used to say "folks" more ...wasn't any more convincing ..but it felt warmer ..;)

Before the PR and the mods take umbrage .."heat and kitchens" are to PR what "checks" are to "publishers"..

Just so as we all know where "real" is ..hmmmm ..good .

incrediBILL




msg:1454522
 2:51 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

AdSenseAdvisor wrote:
While I do have quite a ways to go if I want to compete with AdWordsAdvisor for # of posts, that shouldn't be an indicator of how important Google considers publishers.

Welcome back AdSenseAdvisor, long time no see :)

Well, I hate to be the one to interrupt this revival meeting or to be the one to yank out the center tent pole and let it collapse on the crowd but....

I got a reply from G today about those nasty off target CPM ads and they didn't answer my question of "how in the heck do I get rid of these off target things". However, they did send me a nice rousing canned reply about how the new CPM model was going to make us all RICH! MORE MONEY! HALLELUJAH!

Reading between the lines I figured out I was being politely told that I should stop my whining, sit down, shut up, say THANK YOU GOOGLE and cash my check.

clearvision




msg:1454523
 3:11 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

....or just wait and be patient ;)

But they still should have told you how to stop the annoying ads!

europeforvisitors




msg:1454524
 3:27 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Reading between the lines I figured out I was being politely told that I should stop my whining, sit down, shut up, say THANK YOU GOOGLE and cash my check.

Are chill pills purple? Just kidding. :-)

cornwall




msg:1454525
 8:05 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I used to advocate that but contacting Google directly has been less that satisying lately. I hadn't contacted them in months but had need in the last couple of weeks and deep cynical feelings are becoming overwhelming as I get:

- A canned response or
- An incomprehensible babbling response or
- Lip service to reported T&C violations (we will not spank our cash cows) or
- No response at all

incrediBILL's words sum up the state of Google's replies.

It is not worth sending Google an email about anything. I want a reply to my question, not a canned response, an incomprehensible response, or worse, no response.

Google, no doubt rightly from their point of view, offer a service to advertisers in AdWords. As others point out in this thread you do get a proper response from your AdWords problems. Their response to AdSense questions is generally poor.

Further Google supply a professional forum response at WebmasterWorld on AdWords. AdWordsAdvisor has made 2500 posts here. AdSenseAdvisor has made under 100 posts. AdSenseAdvisor is a guy who is kind enough to make these responses in his time off. One assumes that posting here is part of AdSenseAdvisors job (but perhaps he just has more spare time?)

ownerrim




msg:1454526
 11:31 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Maybe because there are others working even harder and passing you by...?"

Nope. Absolutely dominant.

fearlessrick




msg:1454527
 11:50 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Went through this same thing with ebay years ago. Sellers who built that business were treated like cr#p and still are to this day. Many, many, many powersellers have left, many more mid-tier sellers are gone.

I used to spend over $200 a month in fees to ebay, when fees were low! Today I spend less than $20 a month.

And ebay's stock price? Less than half of what it was three months ago, and that's not because it split. Google is following along the same path of corporatism as ebay. They will suffer the same fate. Just continue to ignore customer complaints, questions, etc.

As you all know, if we did that we'd soon be out of business. These big corporations have the luxury of having a massive herd of sheep in their corral, so a few "black sheep" bleating, BA, BA, BAH! doesn't really register with them. They'd prefer to shoot them than deal with them.

Obviously, I'm not a big fan of large corporations, but that's exactly what Google is and it's evident they have little to no regard for the well being of the publishers upon whose sites their $$$$billions are "earned."

artdeco




msg:1454528
 11:58 am on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

"but contacting Google directly has been less that satisying lately."
<b>in the contrary all of my enquiries had a quick and very kind reply even more satisfactory then my webhosting provider</b>

Broadway




msg:1454529
 1:35 pm on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>Many ARE doing better than ever, myself included---but only because content is being continually added and links are being continually gained. I think a widespread feeling is that you have to work harder and harder for increasingly minimal gains...or simply to hold the same position. Mouse on a treadmill. <<<

With my site I'm holding even more or less, but only because of constant changes and improvements with my site. With Adsense it is the "mouse on a treadmill" scenario, it's not a fair game to publishers.

My consolation is that with my efforts I really do have a better and better website. One day someone will come along (maybe Yahoo) and offer a level playing field and I will be able to fully reap the rewards of my efforts.

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