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Idea: AdSense Premium
A possible idea to make advertisers happier (and we too)?
bluelook

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 11:00 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Not a solution, but to minimize advertisers running completely from Content Matching, there could be an AdSense Premium, with manually accepted sites, all with a minimum recognized online presence (4 or 5 years).
That would, at least, prevent new made for adsense sites.
Premium AdSense publishers would have premium adsense advertisers, but general adsense advertisers too.
Sure, you can say that most advertisers would just use Premium AdSense, but having a quality option doesn´t force that, and there will still be advertisers that want a broader range of sites.

And this AdSense Premium, wouldn´t even need to have better commissions (%). Just to know that the advertisers would be happier, is enough for me.
Do you want to squize the program, and kill one of your biggest revenue sources, or to take care of it, have it for the years to come?

Not a 100% solution, but it could start making a difference.

 

bluelook

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 11:50 pm on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

>I've been online for about 4.5 years now.

You wouldn´t be ruled out. I said 4 or 5 years. It could be 4. Or maybe less. Or any new parameter different from age. PR is easy to fool. Age is not. Unless you buy one.
This was just an idea I throw in. I thought that anyone with a site with such an age, would surely not risk it, in the same way of a new domain.

The main idea was an AdSense Premium. Forget the parameters I gave in. I would advertise on a network with only recognized, and reputable sites, as I did before. But I would never advertise on a broad content match like AdSense, with scraper sites, and made for adsense sites, and click buddies, and click bots...
I would advertise on a network of sites, with webmasters that would never commit fraud, because it would risk their image.

And remember, AdSense Premium would just be one more option. It wouldn´t kill AdSense. It could even bring more advertisers, that currently, do not trust AdSense, and stay way from content matching. And we (webmasters and Google) are loosing those customers.

birdstuff

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 4:17 am on Mar 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's a fact--yes, a fact--that quite a few businesses actually care about the context in which their brand names and ads appear.

You're probably right, but I would venture a guess that 98% of the Internet users who aren't webmasters themselves wouldn't know a "scraper" site from any other site.

After all, a crappy looking site is a crappy looking site regardless of where the content came from, and I've seen some scraper sites that look more professional than sites that have been around for years and top the SERPS.

I just don't see how placing AdSense on a scraper site can hurt an advertiser's branding unless the site itself looks like crap. And there are plenty of crappy looking sites to go around, scraper and otherwise. I think this "advertisers are afraid of hurting their brand" mantra is overstated if it exists at all.

Most advertisers are primarily interested in the bottom line (ROI), and a properly designed scraper site can be one of the best for sending traffic that converts.

(By the way, I'm not saying that building a scraper site is ethical, just that I don't agree with the assertions that they damage an advertiser's brand and send junk traffic).

hyperkik

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 3:12 pm on Mar 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

(By the way, I'm not saying that building a scraper site is ethical, just that I don't agree with the assertions that they damage an advertiser's brand and send junk traffic).

The evidence against your position would be that no legitimate advertisers seek out advertising space on scrapers, no legitimate advertisers create or operate their own scrapers, no legitimate ad agencies attempt to place client sites on scrapers, and nearly all scrapers exclusively use CPC advertising while eschewing anything that measures performance.

The evidence for your position would be what?

bluelook

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 10:04 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I only think that if the site is really bad, the user will be compelled to click elsewhere, even if he isn´t very interested on the ad. He may click just for curiosity, and close the page right away.

Of course many can say that skyscrapers would just be an intermediate between SE´s and the users, but in the end that doesn´t matter to me, because those sites are breaking the TOS, and shouldn´t even belong to AdSense.

birdstuff

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 10:36 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

The evidence against your position would be that no legitimate advertisers seek out advertising space on scrapers, no legitimate advertisers create or operate their own scrapers, no legitimate ad agencies attempt to place client sites on scrapers, and nearly all scrapers exclusively use CPC advertising while eschewing anything that measures performance.

I see no evidence to suggest that your "evidence" exists. Your blanket assertions have no basis in fact as far as I can tell.

With AdSense "legitimate advertisers" (what exactly is an "legitimate" advertiser, anyway?) don't have to seek out "scraper sites" to advertise on. Google does a fine job of finding them on their behalf.

...no legitimate ad agencies attempt to place client sites on scrapers

We're discussing Google here and I consider them to be quite legitimate.

flyerguy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 10:41 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

In the end, are you going to be the judge and jury? Should we round up a committee of WW members with pitchforks, head down to G HQ and offer our services?

It is the same situation as the SERP's; there is no black & white algorithm or methodology that can place a human value judgement on a site.

Qualified human judgements on the value of a site would cost far more than the proposed 'call center in India' idea. There are many factors that you guys calculate in your head automatically as webmasters that let you render a quick opinion of a site, foremost being years of experience.

A blog. A skyscraper. Is it spam? The person seems to mostly be rambling on about random stuff, the advertising dominates a large part of the screen. Are you going to be the one to judge whether this person should get his only college income axed? Or you want to leave it to a borg call center?

I can understand peoples griping about the SERP's, this for one will directly affect the 'menace of scrapers' as they will simply get no traffic. Trying to promote a caste system for Adsense would not achieve your goals of making money.

bluelook

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 4:53 pm on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

>Trying to promote a caste system for Adsense would not achieve your goals of making money

But maybe it will prevent the end of the program, or the exodus of most of the most savvy advertisers.
My idea was never of making more money (we would receive the same, the difference would be happier advertisers), but to keep the program stable.

I´m a college student too (for years I don´t know if my part time was webmastering or studying), and that is no excuse for me to run an illegal, fraud or no content site.
And it would be easy to buy such a script, but I like to keep my ethics intact.

novice

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 5:24 pm on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Idea: AdSense Premium
A possible idea to make advertisers happier (and we too)?"

I made a post similar to this about 6 months ago. It was right when Google announced AdWords Professional. I suggested that they also start a program call AdSense Professional.

To qualify to be an AdSense Professional publishers would submit their site to Google and answer a series of questions. The questions would be,

How long have you had the site published?
What is your experience in that field?
Where do you get your information/content from?
and more similar ones.

Once Google approves your site you become an AdSense Professional.

Now, when advertisers login to their AdWords account and choose where they want their ads to appear there will be another option "AdSense Professional" in addition to content, Google and search partners.

This way there are many factors to determine if a publisher could be an AdSense Professional.

Lets say you start a new site about travel. You submit your site to Google. Google sees from the form you submitted that you have been in the travel industry for 25 years you were the head of a major travel company. They may allow you to be AdSense Professional even though your site was just started.

I am sure that the "powers that be" at Google seen my post, still no AdSense Professionals. Which makes me think they are not interested in such an idea, or who knows maybe they have one in the works.

bluelook

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 11:12 am on Mar 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi "novice"!

And maybe many other webmasters submitted an idea similar to ours. There can be several ammounts of factors to decide if a website should, or shouldn´t belong to a premium / professional AdSense.

As to the experience in the field, the problem would be Google to be sure we were telling the truth.

As to the "online age", it´s easy to check that, and although not sufficient to tell if it´s a quality site or not, at least the webmaster will think twice before ruining it, with black hat technics.

Don´t give up with your suggestions to Google. Months ago I also sent them several ideas (like a Googlebar we could promote, with our affiliate code in it), and even if it still doesn´t exist, well, maybe someday it will.
But maybe in that day, people won´t be so interested in dowloading it...

hyperkik

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 11:36 am on Mar 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

I see no evidence to suggest that your "evidence" exists.

I've seen plenty of evidence that you will ignore things so obvious that they are striking you in the face to avoid admitting the obvious. I don't want to belabor this - if you are intent on defending the indefensible, presumably because your own conduct falls into that category, I'll just ignore you.

birdstuff

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 1:52 pm on Mar 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've seen plenty of evidence that you will ignore things so obvious that they are striking you in the face to avoid admitting the obvious. I don't want to belabor this - if you are intent on defending the indefensible, presumably because your own conduct falls into that category, I'll just ignore you.

Your presumption is incorrect. I understand your stance on this issue, as misguided as it is. You have lots of others who agree with you. But don't make the mistake of assuming I use every tactic that I defend against illogical attacks. Some of those tactics are shady at best, just not for the reasons stated in a particular thread or post.

Do I like scraper sites? No. Do I have any of them? No. I don't like scraper sites for various reasons, many of which have been discussed in the Google News forum.

But the issues in question regarding using AdSense on scraper sites are:

1 - Does having an ad on a scaper site negatively affect the advertiser's brand? I have seen no evidence that it does. If you can produce even one case where it has, please do so and I'll change my opinion.

2 - Does an ad on a scraper site result in low conversion rates for the advertiser? Not at all, in fact most "scraper" sites produce such well-targeted ads that the conversion rates are very high.

I'm not defending scraper sites at all, just pointing out the fallacy in these specific attacks against them.

You can continue with the personal attacks if you wish, or simply ignore my posts. I don't care either way. I'll just keep stating my opinions while considering any hard evidence that could cause me to change them.

bluelook

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 8:57 pm on Mar 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

>hard evidence that could cause me to change them

Forgeting the AdSense stuff, what about content theft? Scraper sites don´t respect any copyright. Of course you may say that some search engines do something similar, but honorable SE´s allow me to block them. Scraper sites don´t.

So, I don´t care if they have good or bad conversions. The only thing that strikes me is they they aren´t real sites, sometimes even reaching the fraud level (when they copy entire paragraphs of articles), and are against Google TOS.

birdstuff

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 12:58 am on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Forgeting the AdSense stuff, what about content theft? Scraper sites don´t respect any copyright. Of course you may say that some search engines do something similar, but honorable SE´s allow me to block them. Scraper sites don´t.

So, I don´t care if they have good or bad conversions. The only thing that strikes me is they they aren´t real sites, sometimes even reaching the fraud level (when they copy entire paragraphs of articles), and are against Google TOS

It appears that we're in complete agreement.

bluelook

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 9:22 am on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

That´s great :) I understood your point of view.

hyperkik

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 12:14 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

But don't make the mistake of assuming I use every tactic that I defend against illogical attacks. Some of those tactics are shady at best, just not for the reasons stated in a particular thread or post.

I have interpreted your gratuitious attacks on people who criticize scrapers, your refusal to accept any criticism of scrapers, and your hostility when challenged, as suggesting the opposite. But I can accept you as the honest, albeit in my opinion misguided, defender of the unprincipled webmaster, even if I don't understand your zeal under the circumstances.

bluelook

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5816 posted 1:38 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, it seems there already is an AdSense Premium, and with that same name!

Google AdSense Premium Service
[services.google.com...]

"If your site receives more than 5 million search queries or 20 million content page views a month, you may qualify for AdSense premium service"

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