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This 352 message thread spans 12 pages: < < 352 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 > >     
Why does Google AdSense sponsor "scraper" spam sites
zeus




msg:1367916
 11:17 pm on Mar 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

I remember when I signed up for google adsense I was a little nervous how professionel a site must be to be accepted, but I did not have any troubles.

I hope we agree on that site full of links/google search results is a pure spam site, if so, WHY does google adsense sponsor such sites, there are 10000 sites like that which a sponsored by adsense, dont they want good search results any more, be cause the more they support those site, more there will be in the serps.

I refuse to beleive that its just because of the money.

 

Atticus




msg:1368096
 11:04 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sure photon,

I'll add:

Google is such a big outfit that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

That pretty much sums it up right there.

That is why when AdWords advertisers report these poor quality sites they are removed.

Atticus




msg:1368097
 11:07 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

ken_b,

Could involve any of the things you mentioned, but I think that above all else it's the sheer volume of the pages.

The Contractor




msg:1368098
 11:09 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

2) "Scraper spam sites" ARE legal.

3) "Scraper spam sites" convert good and bring targetted trafiic.

I believe you are wrong on the above two points unless the following apply:

2) "Scraper spam sites" ARE legal. (only if they have written permission for copyright infringements they are making)

3) "Scraper spam sites" convert good and bring targetted trafiic. (for who? the person footing the bill - which is the AdWords Advertisers?)

If anyone wants to make the following bet.

They show me their trash scraper site. The AdWords clients that are showing up on the pages are contacted along with Google AdSense team and informed of the site. I will bet that site doesn't show ads in 72 hours.

You set the amount and bcc email me the following emails in which I will write and allow you to send:

1. inform AdSense of the site in question
2. contact five sites you are listing in your scraped results (which I choose)
3. contact five of the advertisers showing up through AdSense (which I choose) on the site.

I'll put my money up against yours that your site doesn't display ads in 72 hours.

edited: this offer is good for up to $1000.00 US funds and we will find a third person (maybe Jenstar..hehe) to hold the money.

fischermx




msg:1368099
 11:18 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)


That is why when AdWords advertisers report these poor quality sites they are removed.

Well, this will be very long ... didn't you notice that many, many scrappers are also adwords advertisers as well? This really puts more variables to the discussion.
What would google do? Cancel their adsense account, but keep them alive spending their money in adwords?

fischermx




msg:1368100
 11:22 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

The Contractor :
Without the bet, can I sticky you a couple of sites I know and see if they get shut down?

fischermx




msg:1368101
 11:27 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Get this, a new generation of scrappers :
Wikipedia clones!

oh my god, where are we going to end?

(just found them, but I didn't realize they have been running from much time ago and I don't see them mentioned in WebmasterWorld).

Atticus




msg:1368102
 11:32 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

fischermx,

Have you noticed that many bank robbers often have bank accounts themselves? This is just furthur proof that banks love robberies, because everybody makes cash!

Oh, and I noticed that when TC asked the scraper folks to put up or shut up, YOU had the courage to offer to tell him about some other guy's site!

Such integrity melded with unquestionable bravery -- you are certainly going places, m'boy!

The Contractor




msg:1368103
 11:35 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Nope, I don't report sites... as you can see in my message above the owner would be reporting themselves with the emails I write.

You know it's none of my business and those that know me know how I feel - to each his own. I am not the Google police, I am not there to look out for the AdSense program or AdWords advertisers...that's their own jobs. I don't care if someone cloaks or uses whatever technique they want for ranking. I don't whine about those above me using those tactics - they are willing to risk what I am not.

I just do not like people justifying their theft from others. It is wrong and that is one of the few areas where my moral judgement takes over. I was raised better and respect other people more than to steal from them and that's all there is to it. Wait until the content thieves gets something stolen from them, maybe a car stereo, maybe pickpocketed... then ask them what they feel of theft.

scraperrob




msg:1368104
 11:47 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Scraper SPam Sites ARE LEGAL.... We don't need permission. Saying they are illegal is like saying meta search engines are illegal. That's all a scraper is.. a dummy down meta search engine. There are tons of these that take results from the various search engines to display content.

As I pointed out before, the way to get your site off of one of my scrape "SPAM" sites is to disallow ALL robots... I contend that my sites are simply highly targetted meta search engines. I personall grab data from all three search engines which makes me a meta like engine.

I just want everyone to stop crying about our sites and focus on your own sites... I am 100% white hat in my seo and have got my positions fair and square.. Don't hate my sites because they outrank yours. I will never get banned due to the fact my scraped data is just a fraction of the content I include. I have articles (which of coarse are legally scraped from free article sites).

And not surprisingly, this was with the help of other not-so-smart scraper sites that keep links intact. Half of my links come from these other scrapers...

As a wise poster posted earlier, don't hate the players.. hate the game...

fischermx




msg:1368105
 11:51 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)


Have you noticed that many bank robbers often have bank accounts themselves? This is just furthur proof that banks love robberies, because everybody makes cash!

I said a fact, you're example is quite funny. This is not exactly as a bank robberie, if it were, we were not being discussing it here. I mean, if it were sooo bad as a bank robberie, those sites would not last more than a day, while we know they may last months.
So, please, next time pick up better analogies.


Oh, and I noticed that when TC asked the scraper folks to put up or shut up, YOU had the courage to offer to tell him about some other guy's site!

I don't have a scrapper site, so I can't join his game as he proposed, but as an experiment, would be nice to do it. Actually, I am going to do it, could anybody advise what's the most direct path to report a scraper site?

fischermx




msg:1368106
 11:56 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)


Nope, I don't report sites...

Then, what was your game about?
ooh, wait, it was a bet, i.e, money, so, if is about money then you play, otherwise you not?
So, do you really care about to shutdown scrappers or not?
Where did I hear that before?

fischermx




msg:1368107
 12:01 am on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)


Saying they are illegal is like saying meta search engines are illegal

Sorry, pal, but metasearches that does html parsing directly from results, without paying for their queries are violating SE terms of services.
I would say that 99% of metasearches you find out there are illegal.

I would say that a manually generated scrapper, done in a directory-style, would have better luck in court than a metasearch.

Atticus




msg:1368108
 12:05 am on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

scraperrob,

So you admit that you violate the Google terms of service in producing your site?

This is in addition to the clearly illegal use of others peoples' content to mislead surfers into clicking on unrelated advertisements on your site as you confessed yesterday?

You're a fun guy. I am "crying," but that's just cuz you make me laugh so hard...

Atticus




msg:1368109
 12:45 am on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Scrapey Scraperson's Tips for Big Spam in 1 Day:

A) Prep Work:
Prep work and begin stealing content. Yep, long before the domain name is settled on, start putting together notes to steal at least a 10,000 page site. That's just for openers. That's 10,000 pages of "sombody’s content", as opposed to anything which requires any real inelligence or effort on your part.

B) Domain name:
Easily confusable. You want "buy-viagra-carribean-cruise-vacations-hot-teens.com" and not "simplicity.com". Content domains are out - maliciousness and ill will are in - big time in. The value of brevity in a domain name has never been less to se's. Learn the lesson of "realcontent.com" becomes "texas-holdem-cheap-liquor-and-floosies.com" and why they did it.

C) Site Design:
The more confusing the better. Rule of thumb: incomprehensible jumbles of text should out weight everything but the ad copy

Arrange the site in a illogical manner with directory names hitting the top keywords across at least five unrelated industries. Clutter and spam your site with frivolous information or ideas. Keep it down, dirty and unprofessional to the best of your ability.

Learn the lesson of celebrity-escort-uk-travel-ringtones.com itself - stolen is retro cool - stolen is what surfers want.

(and that's about enough of THAT already)

photonstudios




msg:1368110
 1:14 am on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Atticus,

You got it all wrong, that's not how its done ;)

Atticus




msg:1368111
 1:25 am on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

photon,

I asked how one might get started in this fast-paced, high-growth industry, but no one would clue me in.

Do I have go down some back alley and whisper, "teecoe sent me," to a pug nosed figure skulking in a dark doorway?

HughMungus




msg:1368112
 1:40 am on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

maliciousness and ill will are in

Everyone's ethics are different. You think it's not OK for people to build scraper sites. I think it's not OK for people to clutter up search results with the same information re-worded in their quest to create "a page a day". One thing I've learned about this business is that ethics are basically meaningless within the law and the rules.

HughMungus




msg:1368113
 1:41 am on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

I asked how one might get started in this fast-paced, high-growth industry, but no one would clue me in.

Easy. Learn some PHP. :D

The Contractor




msg:1368114
 1:07 pm on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

scraperrob
Scraper SPam Sites ARE LEGAL.... We don't need permission. Saying they are illegal is like saying meta search engines are illegal. That's all a scraper is.. a dummy down meta search engine. There are tons of these that take results from the various search engines to display content.

Again, this shows the ignorance of boys with toys. What you are doing (scraping SE's results) is not legal and you may write to anyone of them and ask if you don't believe the SE's own terms of service and/or do not believe in the copyright laws.

I just want everyone to stop crying about our sites and focus on your own sites... I am 100% white hat in my seo and have got my positions fair and square.

Not crying a bit, just tired of the complete ignorance of people running a script that do not even realize the legalities. Also, tired of them stating and justifying to themselves that content theft is OK. Please don't confuse yourself with a real meta search engine as they have permission from the SE's involved and are run by engineers and professionals - a 10 year old with a script could do what you do. As far as them ranking as some have stated – I have to look very hard to find a scraper site in the different niches I am in (they are buried waaaaay back 500+).

fischermx
Then, what was your game about?
ooh, wait, it was a bet, i.e, money, so, if is about money then you play, otherwise you not?
So, do you really care about to shutdown scrappers or not?
Where did I hear that before?

Please read message 188 again and also what I wrote above. It's not my job to shutdown scraper sites and I do not blame those that have them since it's obvious in some areas Google is rewarding them with rankings.

I only protect my own sites and the content on them. I will not report any site for using any technique including those that may be above me in a particular serp. If I find my content on a site (even a snippet and/or link) that I believe was scraped or is a trashy site, I will simply contact the owner. I have done that to over a dozen sites in the past week asking them to remove the link/content – all have complied in a very short time. If I cannot find contact info etc through their site or whois I will simply file a DMCA with the SE's and their sites will disappear.

tip: Scrapers or any other sites stealing snippets/content - I would keep contact info available on the site (form) or don't register the domain by proxy as you may find your whole network is gone over one easily avoidable problem.

zeus




msg:1368115
 1:19 pm on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Im not sure about the legal terms for the search results on a scraper site, but that is not the issue, the issue is why does google sponsor sites that have only links on it and NO real content. The scraper sites are in every category of whatever you search for lately and most are sponsored by google which love good content(thats what they say), but does that count anymore who knows, on thing is for sure if this scraper site hype gets to powerfull google can not filter them out anymore because of financial terms.

The Contractor




msg:1368116
 1:29 pm on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Im not sure about the legal terms for the search results on a scraper site, but that is not the issue, the issue is why does google sponsor sites that have only links on it and NO real content.

That is where I differ from most on this subject. I do not worry about their ranking or what Google does or does not do with them. I learned a long time ago that it doesn't pay to dwell on things you have no control over.

My only "complaint" is the amount of ignorance shown by those that are doing it. After that, it is up to me as a site owner is to protect my own sites and the content they contain. No different than WebmasterWorld does by not allowing others to take the threads/content and post it on their sites.

aleksl




msg:1368117
 10:25 pm on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Here's the ignorance to you - we have 7 content sites, 3 years to 3 months old, NONE of them are in Google. Last, and largest site, was banned by G about a week ago. No reason.

G would rather see scraper sites in the index, then legitimate content sites making serious $.

I have posted 2 threads on WebmasterWorld about it in last 2 days, trying to understand the issue - apparently they were disallowed by local admin.

So go figure - and build more scraper sites. Content doesn't work, I've tried. At best, your business model will be at liberty of G. All this hoopla about "how to...content sites...." is propaganda, IMHO.

blend27




msg:1368118
 11:04 pm on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

- aleksL ....propaganda....

--not true at all, IMHO it is only for a reason that your site was dropped from google, there could be several factors that might be in effect, many different once, i am learning about them my self one at a time. "G" as we call it, is not the end of the world, it does not stop at G, or Y or M or any other letter. from what i learned is having this type of train of thought only bennefits me. Having Scapers sites or building them is quick cash, i agree, but if you try to understand it will come, at least it should.

StupidScript




msg:1368119
 12:46 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Mr. Mungus, RE:
If you do NOT put restrictions in place, the SEs have every right to crawl your site and post the traditional title-description-URL as part of THEIR site's content.

Do you have a link to the court case that determined this?

No, I do not. However several recent, ongoing cases are exploring what constitutes "fair use" when a search engine is involved.

For example, a case filed March 17 of this year in the US Disctrict Court in Washington, D.C. relates to Google's use of its bot to gather content from news sites for use on its own news site. That's not even close to Google gathering content from unrelated (say, fudge recipe) websites for use in its search listings.

The key issue here is an element of determining "fair use" that attempts to figure out whether or not the VALUE of the copyrighted work has been diminished by its unauthorized use on another site.

I submit (and Google maintains) that search engine listings do not devalue the copyrighted content on one's site.

I also submit that scraper sites DO devalue the copyrighted content taken from and still active on one's site.

The reality is that the caselaw is pretty thin in this area, despite it being quite volumnous in more traditional media. Libraries and movie theaters don't have search engines, so this new thing must be squished into existing law, or new law written to accomodate it.

But I think scraper sites are in a more clearly defined area, akin to going into a museum and taking photos of all of the pictures, then setting up prints of the photos in your living room and buying advertising or slapping a bumper sticker on the museum's walls saying "Come look at my museum!".

Now THAT's infringement! :)

rfung




msg:1368120
 1:28 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I submit (and Google maintains) that search engine listings do not devalue the copyrighted content on one's site.

I also submit that scraper sites DO devalue the copyrighted content taken from and still active on one's site.

Purely out of curiosity, what are your arguments for each case?

blend27




msg:1368121
 1:44 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

look people,

As to a The definition of a scraper site - we all know what it looks like when we see one, there are no thin or thick lines between someone’s understanding of what it is. Scraper is a scraper. Any type of advertising, using API or any other method from specific Search engine should be against any TOS in any PPC Program.

Every Scraper Screams, Oh I am good at "it". So what? What Are you good at? Writing a script, shame on you. Black Or Blue Hat, who cares. The distinction of a true work lays in creating something that you proud of, makes you money and keeps you happy. There will never be a balance, nor there should be one when it comes to scrapers. All of that hard work on our own content will be faced with the reality that search engines somehow are not smart enough to recognize the difference between scraper and widgets site.

Today. 12 Hit an runs from NL, CN. Get Content and Run. But Why? What is in it for you? knowledge? I doubt it...

Get This – I think you are a SCUM, scrapers, but those are just my thoughts.

I think there should be a competition for those when it comes to a search engine results displayed(extra link), so they could play with them selves: something like scraper^thissearchengine^com, and every monthly winner should get a can of dog food.

dollarshort




msg:1368122
 1:46 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

A "skyscraper site" generating money for the advertiser will have more preference than a site with great content that attracts useless visits.

europeforvisitors




msg:1368123
 2:22 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

A "skyscraper site" generating money for the advertiser will have more preference than a site with great content that attracts useless visits.

Yes, and a site with great content that generates money for the advertiser will be preferred over a scraper site that sends worthless traffic. But why waste any more bandwidth by pointing out the obvious?

yosemite




msg:1368124
 3:19 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

In my experience, sites with great content do attract relevant visitors.

rfung




msg:1368125
 3:40 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

until the scraper sites with their 302 redirects hijack your site...

seriously, anyone considering a decent content site should take that into consideration...

HughMungus




msg:1368126
 4:43 am on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

The key issue here is an element of determining "fair use" that attempts to figure out whether or not the VALUE of the copyrighted work has been diminished by its unauthorized use on another site.

I submit (and Google maintains) that search engine listings do not devalue the copyrighted content on one's site.

Sure it does. Now, when I need a phone number for a local business, I type in the name of the restaurant and the area code and the whole number comes up in the snippets. I never have to visit a website other than Google. Do you think the companies that have directory sites think that this hurts the value of their content? How is it fair use if Google does it but not if I do it? That's just one example. Caching is another.

This 352 message thread spans 12 pages: < < 352 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 > >
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