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This 352 message thread spans 12 pages: < < 352 ( 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 > >     
Why does Google AdSense sponsor "scraper" spam sites
zeus




msg:1367916
 11:17 pm on Mar 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

I remember when I signed up for google adsense I was a little nervous how professionel a site must be to be accepted, but I did not have any troubles.

I hope we agree on that site full of links/google search results is a pure spam site, if so, WHY does google adsense sponsor such sites, there are 10000 sites like that which a sponsored by adsense, dont they want good search results any more, be cause the more they support those site, more there will be in the serps.

I refuse to beleive that its just because of the money.

 

zeus




msg:1368066
 12:16 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google does know about those scraper sites, if you sign up, you are allowed to add the code on other sites and they can then later look at the site to see if its in complience with the Terma & Conditions, but thats where they sleep, they dont check the other sites, they dont have the time (I hope its the case), a typical scrpaer spammer adds alot of new sites/domains to the SE.

When you take a look, special a t google you can see the serps are full of scrapers, not all are sponsored by google but many and with time there will BE to many so they can not delete the owners anymore, because of finacial terms, so they have act fast before that happens or maybe that poiont is already reached.

The sad thing is also many of those scraper sites also use 302 redirecting which also get original sites filtered out for dublicate content, but thats another topic.

teeceo




msg:1368067
 3:44 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

"attenion everyone" if you "Really" want to know how adsence feels about scraper sites I say a few people here make one for themselve's and try to sihn up to google adsence (in say there wifes or friends name "with there permission ofcourse") and see if your site gets excepted into adsence as the "always" check out your site when you first sign up. If they don't like it they will not open the adsence account and you will have a deffenent answer (and you can come back here and share with us how it went:). ANY TAKERS or do you all just want to keep guessing about how they feel and keep crying that they bumped you out.

aleksl




msg:1368068
 4:16 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

K, to those happy "I create people content".

Forgive my English, it is not my first language, but

When Einstein was asked, if he has a notepad to write down all the genius ideas he's come up with, he replied that the original briliant ideas are so rare he'd manage to remember them all.

Don't kid yourselves. Taking a picture of product, writing a "review", even blogging or making newspaper articles is not "creating the original content". It is ment to be done for PROFIT. It is there to convice folks to buy your product, to click a link in your blog, or to buy a newspaper full of ads. NO ORIGINAL CONTENT IS CREATED IN THIS EXPERIMENT.

If you don't believe me, take a keyword for the page you created recently, and Google it. I bet more than 10,000 other pages will show up. So saying that "I create content" and "these spammers are bad" is hypocritical (hope I spelled this right).

Once your "pretty, original content" site is killed by Google (which happened to me before), and you go from making $XXXX and bragging how you managed to do that with "original content" to $XX and almost no traffic OVERNIGHT, come back and post here. Yeah, and there will not be any "customres that passed a coupon to the brother", 'cause that customer will never find you in the first place.

So back to the topic, why Google likes scraper sites - because Google.com is essentially a scraper site, pretied up, and with lots more traffic.

wattsnew




msg:1368069
 4:46 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

zeus,

Hair raising thoughts. So after an adsense account is approved, you can add any number of pages, sites? Placing an AdWords ad at least gets a review and it's for a specific landing page URL. Not multiples.

Once Yahoo and MSN start littering the SERPs the Web will not be a peasant experience.

teeceo,

Thanks for hanging in with your views.

If AdSense formally reviewed and approved every page you put up, would it change what you build, what content you use? If "made for AdSense" sites were really banned, would you turn your talents to optimizing content sites (as you offered earlier) to keep paying the big income tax? Or something else?

There are three available controls on rapacious commercialism harming consumer interest, all are slow and inadequate. Regulation, negative consumer response, and industry self interest. Perhaps if AdWords advertisisers indicated to Google that they do not want any ads with content other than approved by AdWords in the original ads? It might register if there was a way to avoid paying for those clicks.

Or the FTC needs to be prodded on behalf of consumers. Both the copyright and unidentified advertising aspects need some sort of stick hanging over them if the engines won't do the job voluntarily.

OK Google. It's time responsibility for this Web vandalism was taken seriously. Advertising Webmasters CAN be controlled, if not by a more restrictive TOS then by manual inspection and approval page by page, repeated when a page changes. You control the system, it's your job.

Atticus




msg:1368070
 5:07 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

aleksl,

Here in the USA we have something called intellectual property rights. Nowhere do our fine laws and customs say that "only works of supreme genius shall be protected."

On the contrary. Even the pictures on pizza boxes are owned by their creators, and that's that.

I know, I know. I've just convinced you to start stealing pizza boxes...

Delivery for I.C. Weiner!

Atticus




msg:1368071
 5:12 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

For those using G SERPs to create scraper content, please consider:

"The Google Services are made available for your personal, non-commercial use only...You may not take the results from a Google search and reformat and display them, or mirror the Google home page or results pages on your Web site. You may not "meta-search" Google."

[google.com...]

Tigrou




msg:1368072
 5:38 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Atticus,

intersting post but I know for a fact that there are legal tools to meta-search Google and other SEs. Copernic is the best one I've seen. There are also other tools created "without approval" that Google hasn't stomped on.

Obviously the rules can be broken if it is in google's interest *ahem* or more likely if it hasn't come to their attention.

A point here that is skittered around is this :: if running AdSense is sign of a "quality check" (scraping aside) & MSN/Yahoo contextual searches are going to be used by scrapered-sites to reduce profile to google radar, then logically won't the G alorythm place more an emphasis on sites running AdSense?

Be easy to justify within the Plex and maybe even outside. Plus there is the minor aspect that this'll reduce the $$ for MSN/Yahoo.

CF
C'mon this is the third piece of meat I've put out this thread. More than one person's gotta bite on this thought. If not I'm taking my ball home and making my own thread :-p

[edited by: Tigrou at 5:43 pm (utc) on Mar. 25, 2005]

HughMungus




msg:1368073
 5:39 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

"The Google Services are made available for your personal, non-commercial use only...You may not take the results from a Google search and reformat and display them, or mirror the Google home page or results pages on your Web site. You may not "meta-search" Google."

What's mystifying to me about this is that it seems like Google or any other search engine could easily determine (algorithmically) what websites are using its search results. Maybe a system to check for such things is in the pipe.

Atticus




msg:1368074
 5:50 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Tigrou,

"If you want to make commercial use of the Google Services, you must enter into an agreement with Google to do so in advance."

[google.com...]

So yeah, there are legal ways to do it. But do we really believe that Scrapey Scraperson has contracted with Google?

blend27




msg:1368075
 6:35 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Tigrou -- MSN/Yahoo contextual searches are going to be used by scrapered-sites to reduce profile to Google radar --

Its funny that it does not applied to Google at all, they do not filter results that are displayed.

Recently, more than 3000 pages of a Scraper site were indexed and now are in the Top 6 on about 1200 keyword phrases on Google. The results displayed are on each page are:

Top 10 of Yahoo SERPS on any particular string - keyword phrase.

Scraper sites are a 11 subdomains of a .ORG domain with home page PR of 8 - the main site is a Community-oriented publishing software for PHP and MySQL. with Alexa Traffic rank of 6700 and has 130000 pages indexed by Google.

They just became a Super Scraper.

Now that what I call making a killing on AdWords. It even made me say Holly Cow!

Now, if anyone here would have say or think this is not how Google Supports their LOST Law Suits compensation, to foreign companies, please send me a Sticky, and I will send you the URL of the site. The name of website is quite intriguing as well.

<added>Google Adwords on every page take up 100% of the screen on 1024x768 resolution, on 1280x1024 20% is occupied with a link to an affiliate program that goes thru a redirect true qksrv</added>

[edited by: blend27 at 6:49 pm (utc) on Mar. 25, 2005]

europeforvisitors




msg:1368076
 6:45 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Never mind scraper sites--what about pages that have no content (not even scraped content) other than AdSense ads?

Just today, I clicked on the #12 search result for one of my major keyphrases and found a travel directory that had 15 AdSense ads listed under one of its country categories. The ads were disguised to look like directory results, and they were the only "content" for the country in question.

fischermx




msg:1368077
 6:56 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

What if the SERPS are taken from MSN or Yahoo?
Does it make a difference?

The Contractor




msg:1368078
 7:05 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

What if the SERPS are taken from MSN or Yahoo?
Does it make a difference?

Yes, it does make a difference - you would then be scraping their results not Googles and would be infringing upon them not Google :)

Atticus




msg:1368079
 7:11 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

To scrape Dr. Zaius, "I warn you fischermx, don't go to the Yahoo TOS. You might not like what you find there."

But he's just a big monkey, what does he know?

fischermx




msg:1368080
 7:14 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Good time to mention this, because, btw, Yahoo TOS nor MSN TOS have anything explicit against being metasearched or to show their results. Actually both Yahoo and MSN TOS are more intended to the use of their emails services.

fischermx




msg:1368081
 7:23 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)


Yes, it does make a difference - you would then be scraping their results not Googles and would be infringing upon them not Google :)

Wait a minute, are we against the scrappers at all, which I guess?
Or just the scrappers that shows results form google?
Or just the scrappers that show results from google and also have adsense?
Somehow I feel like, if this people were using someone else results, say Gigablast, Alexa, then instead of AdSense have just clickbank or similar stuff, then we really wouldn't care, would we? Since they were not interfering with our adsense earnings ...
Again, I smell some hypocrisy here.

Atticus




msg:1368082
 7:29 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Yahoo! provides users with access to a rich collection of resources, including various communications tools, forums, shopping services, search services..."

"You acknowledge and agree that the Service and any necessary software used in connection with the Service ("Software") contain proprietary and confidential information that is protected by applicable intellectual property and other laws."

[docs.yahoo.com...]

"Copyright and Intellectual Property Agent for Notice
Yahoo! respects the intellectual property of others, and we ask our users to do the same. Yahoo! may, in appropriate circumstances and at its discretion, disable and/or terminate the accounts of users who may be repeat infringers."

"If you are seeking permission to use Yahoo! trademarks, logos, service marks, trade dress, slogans, screen shots, copyrighted designs, or other brand features, please contact the permission requests department, not the copyright agent."

[docs.yahoo.com...]

Atticus




msg:1368083
 7:33 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

fischermx

"Again, I smell some hypocrisy here."

People who sign a contract for use of services have a right to use those services as specified in the contract.

People who use services without permision are thieves. Why is this sooooooo hard to understand?

"After all, we are not communists..." (Barzini scrape)

fischermx




msg:1368084
 7:54 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have the mania of tell half statements, I'm sorry, but here I go:

I told they don't have "anything explicit", as Google does:
No Automated Querying
You may not send automated queries of any sort to Google's system without express permission in advance from Google. Note that "sending automated queries" includes, among other things:

- using any software which sends queries to Google to determine how a website or webpage "ranks" on Google for various queries;
- "meta-searching" Google; and
- performing "offline" searches on Google.

And I think they should, cause I don't think a SERP can be subject of copyrighting, at all.

Atticus




msg:1368085
 8:04 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

fischermx,

see:

[yahoo.com...]

"Copyright 2005 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved."

I really don't think that the opinions of those who advocate intellectual property theft carry much weight in a court of law. Still, feel free to prepare an amicus brief if you wish.

fischermx




msg:1368086
 8:08 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

insisting in copyright on SERPS?
Well, what about taking SERPS from several engines, which allows you, even provide you API to query their SE, then you mix them all, just like "vivisimo" does. You have create a new work, if it is substantially different, therefore, it will be no way to claim copyright on it. Then you have a legal scrapper.

Atticus




msg:1368087
 8:24 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

fish,

If you contract with a service and use the service within the terms of that contract, then everything is hunky-dory.

Thought I said that already.

But make sure you READ and UNDERSTAND the 'small print.' That's what it's there for....

Tigrou




msg:1368088
 8:50 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

thanks for feedback...my ego is recovering now :-)

Wow, y'all are posting quickly today.

Some interesting finds there:
-15 ads only on a results. 5*3 units?
-Pr8 site "risking it all" for good $$ per day. (obviously they feel there is no risk...or that the profits for a short time justify that risk)

The other point that its the scrapers inclusion in SERPs not AdSense thta is the problem. Plenty of other semi-contextuals to work their way through.

CF
ps HughMungus - I like how I say "nuclear". Wasn't until 2000 that I started having to avoid the word.

Atticus




msg:1368089
 9:42 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hey, I've ranted and raved my way to a junior membership!

Kewl....

BTW, supposed I wanted to give the whole scaper thing a try, where would I start?

Tigrou




msg:1368090
 9:53 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

BTW, supposed I wanted to give the whole scaper thing a try, where would I start?

LOL.

Well at least you've got an open mind.

Best,
CF

The Contractor




msg:1368091
 9:54 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Somehow I feel like, if this people were using someone else results, say Gigablast, Alexa, then instead of AdSense have just clickbank or similar stuff, then we really wouldn't care, would we? Since they were not interfering with our adsense earnings ...
Again, I smell some hypocrisy here.

Nah... no hypocrisy here... a thief is a thief no matter who they steal from...
Sorry I don't like thieves.

bluelook




msg:1368092
 10:17 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Im tired of seeing fake Adsense pages. Even yesterday I reported a site, that had nothing except adsense ads, and other ads... and it was the other ads that were triggering adsense...

photonstudios




msg:1368093
 10:41 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Why does Google AdSense sponsor "scraper" spam sites

1) "Scraper spam sites" make google a lot of money.

2) "Scraper spam sites" ARE legal.

3) "Scraper spam sites" convert good and bring targetted trafiic.

Anyone want to add?

fischermx




msg:1368094
 10:54 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

4) There's no much difference between a scraper and a directory at the bottom.

5) The only difference between the business model of a scraper and a search engine is the crawler.

Though, I have to admit, at the bottom, I really don't like them :)

ken_b




msg:1368095
 11:03 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

So what can a "content publisher" learn from the "scrapers"?

Well, I don't know exactly what, but I'm pretty sure these "scarper" folks aren't doing it just for kicks.

And it seems to work at some level.

That pretty much means there is probably something of value for the "content publisher" to learn.

Maybe something about keyword density?

Maybe something about link structure?

Maybe something about anchor text?

Yes? No?

Other possibilties?

Atticus




msg:1368096
 11:04 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sure photon,

I'll add:

Google is such a big outfit that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

That pretty much sums it up right there.

That is why when AdWords advertisers report these poor quality sites they are removed.

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