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This 352 message thread spans 12 pages: < < 352 ( 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 > >     
Why does Google AdSense sponsor "scraper" spam sites
zeus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 11:17 pm on Mar 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

I remember when I signed up for google adsense I was a little nervous how professionel a site must be to be accepted, but I did not have any troubles.

I hope we agree on that site full of links/google search results is a pure spam site, if so, WHY does google adsense sponsor such sites, there are 10000 sites like that which a sponsored by adsense, dont they want good search results any more, be cause the more they support those site, more there will be in the serps.

I refuse to beleive that its just because of the money.

 

fischermx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 3:06 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't know why used cars dealers exists either.
Why, if you can deal directly with the individuals, can't you? (Of course, they add more value to the transaction, than scrappes sites to the search engine experience)

Intermediaries exists in ANY business outside the internet, guys, you need to see the outside world.

Atticus



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 3:18 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Tomorrow I'm going down to the local car dealership. I'll pose as a customer and get all the features on the cars.

Then, when a real customer comes in, I'll elbow the salesman out of the way, and I'll sell the car.

That's my new business model. Everybody will just have to get used to it.

Now everybody who thinks that's going to work and who would like to experience this while car shopping, take one giant step forward...

photonstudios

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 3:38 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Atticus,

Apparently you still don't get it. People create all kinds of sites for making money, be it content or scraper or plain keyword spamming site, they all have similar goal: make a living. It won't do you any good if you keep saying how good content sites are and how bad scraper sites are, both will always exist and your whining won't do anything about it but waste people's time. And by the way, your example above is pure irrelevant, this is absolutely two different things we're talking about here - offline, online. What works in offline business doesn't always work online and vice versa.

[added]
I personally create both high quality content sites AND auto generated sites that are not using search results. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages.
[/added]

aleksl



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 3:45 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

" Tomorrow I'm going down to the local car dealership. I'll pose as a customer and get all the features on the cars. Then, when a real customer comes in, I'll elbow the salesman out of the way, and I'll sell the car. That's my new business model. Everybody will just have to get used to it."

How is that different from openning your own car dealership? Is that illegal? Who prevents you from doing so? Heck, you can even place your ads in local newspapers ABOVE existing car dealers.

You're just about to convice me to build my own scraper site.

kpaul

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 3:51 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

photonstudios:

Building a content site does NOT always guarantee that it will turn out to be a long term money maker and requires a lot of hard work and persistence.

-----------

imho, it goes beyond just having the content now. you also need a thriving community. this is the long term goal for most websites i produce. this is even harder than throwing up content and linking to it from everywhere. it's worth it in the long run, though. trust me. once you have the community, not only are you getting free content (especially if you have some kind of moderation in place), you also get found by word of mouth, etc.

if content is king, community is queen.

(that sounds odd, though. lol.)

Atticus



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 3:51 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

photon,

I guess we'll never agree. I think it's wrong to take someone else's work and use it to deny that person the ability to make a living from that work.

I don't know how to be any clearer.

aleksl,

Forcibly tresspassing at a place of business IS illegal. Apparently you don't recognize an analogy that has been tortured and brutally murdered when you see one.

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 3:56 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Even if that were true, why should Google want to share revenue with scrapers who aren't adding value to the search experience? In effect, Google is subsidizing competitors who, in amny cases, are stealing Google's own search results.

Because without scraper sites, they don't have enough places to show ads.

kpaul

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 3:59 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

how many consider affiliate feed sites 'scraper sites'?

what if they have other content on the domain?

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 4:04 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

then why in the world would anyone ever again create even one more page of real web site content

Because not everyone is doing it for money.

Imagine how much better the internet would be without all those people out there creating pages and pages of "new" content so that they can rank better in search engine listings without providing anything that's really new. Don't kid yourself into thinking that by writing content that you are somehow providing a better user experience.

wattsnew

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 4:06 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

<<Intermediaries exists in ANY business outside the internet, guys, you need to see the outside world.>>

The major power of the Net is direct contact, the dissolution of money grubbing, information restricting, monopolistic intermediaries.

If an intermediary can add value (some specialist directories do this coupled with message boards, industry news etc.) they will be popular and supported. Of course, good directories have taken an algorithm hit because spammers emulated them by the thousands a couple of years ago.

Scrapers do not add value. They don't cut down search time, they lengthen it. They don't enhance accuracy, they divert searchers. They add searcher frustration and take bandwidth. They only exist because surfers cannot identify them before clicking or do not recognize what they are, much like SE listings that were threatened by the FTC: results pages that disguised ads in the natural results. Scrapers are the same thing, for the same purpose, by the same players. They never go away.

Search engines want to be thought of as offering unbiased, relevant results. Searchers probably think of scrapers as just lousy advertising sites independent of the search engine. Once it becomes widely known that the search engines sponsor and pay for these pollutants, (repeat after me "Google Scraper SPAM" and put it on your blog) there may be some changes.

Atticus



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 4:07 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

kpaul,

Affilate feeds are delivered to an affiliate following the signing of a contract. Both parties willfully join in this relationship. This relationship is meant to be mutually benefical.

Scraper sites are meant to harm the sites they link to...why do so many folks fail to understand this?

I think its time to start reporting scrapers to Adsense. Never did it before, but so many people crowing about their right to steal my content makes me wanna puke.

Any of you proud scraper owners wanna post your URLs and help a fellow out?

kpaul

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 4:07 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

re: the IRL analogy.

while the used car dealer one doesn't work, i kinda found myself in a somewhat similar situation at my day job. (yes, don't laugh, i still have one...)

anyway, they were selling old computers for $10 a pop. there were 19 of them. i joked around that i should've given the IT guys $190 and resold them for a profit. (it was announced as first come first serve, so, technically, it would've been legal.) i realized, though, that a lot of people would've been mad at me, so i didn't do it.

being the first there, i did, though, grab one of the fastest and another with a lot of RAM. ;)

Atticus



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 4:26 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

HughMungus,

You're so right. Most people use search engines to find a lack of content. It actually makes people's lives more difficult when a search returns substantial information; I feel guilty about delivering it, now that you have opened my eyes.

I now understand that the world would be better off if Mother Teresa wrote content pages out of the goodness of her heart and then teeceo and photon scraped that together with the writings of Dr. Schweitzer and speeches of Dr. King into one big mess-o-links-and-by-the-way-you-wanna-buy-some-viagra-buddy?

wattsnew,

Well said. I used to sound all reasonable and intelligent like that before battling with the mutant scraper people ate a hole in my brain.

BTW, where's zeus? He should be here raining thunderbolts down upon the infidels.

fischermx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 5:19 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Building original content"

That's another sad history.
I wonder how many people here thinks that taking words from here and there, mixing them, blending them, its really "building original content".
Really, I mean, c'mon, original content? Even at ACM, you'll find most studies are 90% based on others which are based on others and so on, adding many times, too few new content... I hope don't get kicked from ACM by telling this.

So, really, the bright minds that really creates new stuff, therefore, new "content" for the web, not even come to WebmasterWorld. They might not even know we exist.

Finally, the real perls of knowledge found in the web, don't run ads.

scraperrob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 5:53 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Atticus,

So we are "harming" the sites we link to? I was thinking that last nite too. So with the urls I display I no longer link to your sites.. Instead I link to an affilate page of mine that offers different affiliates to chose from. Affiliate signups went through the roof today. Also, I am probably going to start ranking pretty well for your url. Just a few minutes ago, I put an explanation on this page stating to the effect that it has come to my attention that sites on my page do want want to be linked to. Choose from the many high quality widget here.

So I for one will stop "harming" your sites by linking to them..... I was actually losing traffic by users clicking on these links and you guys have convinced me of a better way to show these links.

No thanks is necessary for my removing your links.

blend27

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 6:03 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

fischermx - on others and so on, adding many times, -
but ca you describe the widget in your own words, or is it easier to just sound like you can - this does not apply to you please take no offence.

I have a real, original content site, I took a picture of every widget that we sell, I also rewrite the description depending on the season in my own words, 2 years in business. Do I know that mister Smith went to Google and searched for the widgets of my kind, I am positive he did, but he came back and got a brand new widget from our online store, this widget is also unique in the whole world. Mister Smith also has a website, personal site, not a biggie, writes about life in the woods, he placed a link to my site, but first he asked me if he can. Surly I was Glad that a link was pointing to our online store. I sent Mr. Smith a small coupon to comeback and buy more widgets from us. He did not use the coupon, I was starting to worry, did I do a right thing? I wasn't really sure what happened, but it all became very clear to me after his brother place an order, nice order, guess what, he used a coupon. Was I amazed and a happy camper that day.

The moral is that if you are in business and give your customers a reason to comeback they will, they will tell their friends and buddies, brag about it, if you will… Google does the same thing but on the larger Scale, I mean compensation for the Scrapers sites with AdSence Ads. They did have a good reputation, as a search engine, but that was back in a day, when there was cense of decency. Even my Grandfather says so. Old man has an Athlon64 with a Gig of Ram Laptop ans speaks 7 languages.

Every time I see a Scraper Site it make me think of the Stinky Idiot that runs a hotel in Deadwood who runs around and tries to spy on the others people success, and I don’t mean Al Sweringer(I hope I got his name right). 2 years from know, the person who bought a widget from me for the first time, will never remember if he found my store via Google, MSN, Yahoo or even a scraper site, they will just remember the name of the store, online where he bought it, I guarantee that. It makes me proud about what I do. And if you run a Scraper site operation, God Bless you!, but in the mind of yours you always hold that thought and remember that the money that you used to pay for the new ashtray, came from stealing others people ideas.

Blend27(Wonder where that came from…)

wattsnew

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 6:04 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

add a little 302 redirect....and ya got yourself a business!

photonstudios

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 6:11 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

kpaul,

Sorry should have been more clearn on "content site". The guy I know has a community site along with news, original content, reviews, product pictures, etc... It's a dynamic, interactive site which attracts lots of people. But the fact is, he is barely getting any traffic from google now that his traffic is down 80%.

atticus,

I do NOT create scraper sites. If you have read my posts more carefully you would have known.

[added]

blend27,

Every time I see a Scraper Site it make me think of the Stinky Idiot that runs a hotel in Deadwood who runs around and tries to spy on the others people success

That thinking is due to your ignorance. The assumption that you make and think that this is the only thing that those people do makes me laugh....Actually some of those "idiots" are the most brilliant and creative people that keep an open mind to creativity unlike you.

[/added]

blend27

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 6:17 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

P.S.

teeseo
--- "15" adsence accounts banned and thats just part of the game ---

I even have a teashirt that says that and I count the cuts on my Stick for every one of them, do you have a teashirt that Says, AdSence?

just Humor
<added>
thanks photonstudios, i always wondered what it is that i should do next.</added>

Atticus



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 6:22 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

scraperrob,

Let me understand this...you're telling us that you display descriptions and URLs for third party web sites in your directory without the owners' knowledge or consent, but these site descriptions and URLs actual link to some other ads you have on the site?

If that is the case then you have officially crossed the line where "fair use" becomes copyright infringement, in that your are purposefully and in negative way causing an "effect...upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work." (see [copyright.gov...]

Please post your URL so that I may do you the favor of filing a federal suit against you. You need not thank me for my efforts.

fischermx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 6:34 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I made a mistake, selfdeleted.

[edited by: fischermx at 6:44 am (utc) on Mar. 25, 2005]

Atticus



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 6:37 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Photon,

Forgive me if I spoke in error. But also recall Aesop's tale of the Farmer and the Stork. Or maybe that's now teeceo's tale of the Farmer and Stork. Or scraperrob's, I just can't tell any more...

Also there was the time you said, "I am after the money and I'm going to use any way possible to get as much money as possible and I couldn't care less about your ethics towards searchers, advertisers or search engines."

Sorry if I misinterpreted that. Ripping off customers and advertisers IS perfectly legitimate if you don't actually run a scraper site, but merely defend them in fora.

I do applaud you (really) for correctly using the phrase, "couldn't care less." It drives me up a wall when folks say "could care less." Kudos.

fischermx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 6:50 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)


I have a real, original content site, I took a picture of every widget that we sell, I also rewrite the description depending on the season in my own words, 2 years in business.

You mean a photo from a physical object that you sell?
Than you don't have a "content site", you run an internet based business, then. The honorability of your business is out of discussion, and not even fall in what we have in this thread.
IMHO, this has been a discussion between, the people who create simply, silly, either manual or automated listing of sites or pages and those hyper-smart genius that feel greater because they put more words together, then call it an "article" or a "revision" and then they say "we create original content".

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 6:56 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

You're so right. Most people use search engines to find a lack of content. It actually makes people's lives more difficult when a search returns substantial information; I feel guilty about delivering it, now that you have opened my eyes.

Real website content is one thing. Content that adds something to the world is something else. Most people who are "creating content" aren't creating anything new or useful. They're creating a lot of crap and clutter that DOES make people's lives more difficult (when they're trying to find information).

Atticus



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 6:59 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

fischermx;

The difference between, "the people who create simply, silly, either manual or automated listing of sites or pages and those hyper-smart genius that feel greater because they put more words together, then call it an "article" or a "revision" and then they say "we create original content," is the difference between Dr. Frankenstein and God.

You see, it's not about "putting more words together." Anybody can dismember a website and sew the scraps together; the act of creation is greater than mechanical artiface.

And brevity is the soul of wit.

[edited by: Atticus at 7:04 am (utc) on Mar. 25, 2005]

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 7:01 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I do applaud you (really) for correctly using the phrase, "couldn't care less." It drives me up a wall when folks say "could care less." Kudos.

I noticed that, too, and breathed a rare sigh of relief.

Atticus



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 7:03 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

HughMungus,

To scrape George Bailey in It's a Wonderful Life, "And that goes for YOU too!"

I shall say no more as it's time for [adult swim]

PS -- At least that's one thing we can agree on...how do you feel about the way people throw the word "literally' around like it was...literally water?

[edited by: Atticus at 7:09 am (utc) on Mar. 25, 2005]

fischermx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 7:08 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)


Real website content is one thing. Content that adds something to the world is something else. Most people who are "creating content" aren't creating anything new or useful.

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 7:16 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Oops my bad, fischer.

I meant to contrast content created that is basically a re-hash of existing content and content that actually provides new or more-enlightening informatin.

Att, my other peeves is "very unique" and people who can't pronounce "nuclear". GRRRR.

The Contractor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 11:55 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

If G is aware of scrapers in the Adsense program but are 'OK with it,' then why did teeceo get kicked out?

I meant that Google's "search" is ok with it as you see an awful lot of them - not that AdSense is OK with it.

zeus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5761 posted 12:16 pm on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google does know about those scraper sites, if you sign up, you are allowed to add the code on other sites and they can then later look at the site to see if its in complience with the Terma & Conditions, but thats where they sleep, they dont check the other sites, they dont have the time (I hope its the case), a typical scrpaer spammer adds alot of new sites/domains to the SE.

When you take a look, special a t google you can see the serps are full of scrapers, not all are sponsored by google but many and with time there will BE to many so they can not delete the owners anymore, because of finacial terms, so they have act fast before that happens or maybe that poiont is already reached.

The sad thing is also many of those scraper sites also use 302 redirecting which also get original sites filtered out for dublicate content, but thats another topic.

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