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How do advertisers view discussions by publishers saying "I made $$$$"
Isn't it a tad bit unseemly? Is there a downside?
Webwork




msg:1384833
 10:44 pm on Mar 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Anyone have any idea what advertisers think when they view discussions such as have appeared here recently?

Is this business of discussing earnings - with all the "wows" and "I gotta do thats" - reassuring to advertisers?

I understand the benefits of motivating publishers. Still, for me, this business of publicly declaring "I made $$$$" feels a bit cheesey, like I'm standing in a crowded room at a MLM conference (which I've only seen on TV or peeked at when passing by).

Is this best done publicly, as it is now evolving? Who can speak for the reaction of advertisers to the type of "money posts" that show up here and elsewhere?

Or am I just a wet blanket?

 

david_uk




msg:1384834
 11:39 am on Mar 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think somebody pointed out in another thread that other advertising programs don't have the restricition on discussion earnings that Google has until now had. Therefore, discussions of earnings elsewhere are not unusual.

tonygore




msg:1384835
 12:05 pm on Mar 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I started the 'How much do you earn?' thread and I don't think it's unseemly to discuss earnings. It's a similar scenario to employees of a small company talking about how much they earned last year in front of their boss. The boss knows how much his staff wages cost him, but he also knows how much profit his company made.

If advertisers thought AdSense/AdWords was either too expensive or not productive they wouldn't use it. The costs is justified for advertisers. That's why AdSense is such a success.

Jon_King




msg:1384836
 12:32 pm on Mar 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>this business of publicly declaring "I made $$$$" feels a bit cheesey

Couldn't agree more.

Webwork




msg:1384837
 1:43 pm on Mar 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't favor a "gag order". There's some value in a discussion of specifics. On the other hand, what downside do you see to the public discussion of earnings?

Publisher downside? Did you ever know a business where a few people were making a lot of money - until the rest of the world caught on? Do you imagine that a flood of new publishers will improve your income? How?

Advertiser downside? What is an advertiser's expected visceral response when they read posts such as:

"Wow! You earned $$$$ yesterday?! I've got to quickly make another 1,000 pages of cough . . cough quality content so I can make $$$ too!"

"Wow! You earned $$$$! I gotta get more people to click the ads!" (Is an AdSense click an exit/escape route or a natural progression of consumer behavior?)

And so on.

Anyone care to describe - without specific reference or quote - the type of posts or threads - that would tend to turn off advertisers? What are they? If they exist, does self-preservation dictate that some thought should be given to not exercising the rull range of free speech? You know, like "Hmmmm, sometimes I think I'd like to kill that bum, but I don't think saying it will advance my career, so I won't."

What will be the outcome of all the "free speech"?

More publishers and fewer advertisers?

Is this a thinking crowd, or is thinking an impediment to cranking out the next 1,000 pages of quality content?

Your observations and thoughts are invited. Enlightened capitalism is arguably a step forward. ;0)

Webwork




msg:1384838
 2:27 pm on Mar 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Egads! No sooner do I raise the question than I find myself reading the latest AdSense noob post about "building my OWN (AdSense) money machines". (Sorry, I've not violated my own framework for analysis about 'general posts', but the truth is the post and it's timing really drives home the point.)

If AdSense is not about making money for the advertisers then it will fail. Miserably. Promise. Lot's of $.01 clicks, if that. A system in decline, maybe saved by SmartPricing - if all the advertisers aren't scared away.

Dear AdSensers: Why isn't your discussion, thread after thread after thread, about "What can I do to generate qualified leads that will convert well for advertisers so that advertisers are happy and that brings in more advertisers and there's more money in the pot . . ."

Anyone get that? 90% "What's good for advertisers is good for me". 10% "Me, my money, my stats today".

No, a better yield for advertisers hasn't been the theme. Instead, it's incessantly me, more money for me, my income is down, my income trend is bad, I must make more websites so I make more money.

Me, me, me, me, me. This business of "now you can talk about your income" simply heightens the frenzy.

What is an advertiser to think?

Wake Up!

Folks, for this to work it needs to be about the advertisers. Not about "me", "my income", etc. IMHO there's a real need to shift the focus or locus of the dialogue.

Here's the great truth of the WWW: Where there's money to be made on the WWW the locusts will come. You know what locusts do, don't you? I see the same fate for AdSense without intervention.

Okay, so now I exhale. I've expressed an underlying thought, one that's been rumbling around day after day as I've been reading AdSense posts in an effort to educate myself, understand the industry, the trends. It's not a thought original to me. I've seen this vein of thought in EFV's posts time after time, accompanied by the occassional "Here! Here!".

Now, I will shut up and go back in my cave to await the arrival of your missiles, or, the big "so what, who cares" yawn. ;0)

markus007




msg:1384839
 6:06 pm on Mar 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Its up to advertisers to make money. We just let them have space on our sites, it is up to them to convert and entice our visitors. If they can't do that then they will lower thier bids, simple as that.

europeforvisitors




msg:1384840
 6:37 pm on Mar 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

If they can't do that then they will lower thier bids, simple as that.

Could that be why some publishers are reporting drastic declines in EPC and CPM? Maybe the locusts have already begun to destroy the advertising base in certain sectors.

[edited by: europeforvisitors at 6:42 pm (utc) on Mar. 19, 2005]

garyr_h




msg:1384841
 6:40 pm on Mar 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't beleive anything 'bad' will happen because of this. The only locusts which will come are the smaller guys who won't make much out of adsense anyways. And the cheaters will be caught. As for the big guys who come, I don't see anything bad about that. They will more than likely give the publishers what they want, and the more people who are giving publishers what they want, the more publishers who will come.

I'm sure google thought this through for a very long time before they made the decision. Just have faith.

7_Driver




msg:1384842
 7:10 pm on Mar 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

As both advertiser and publisher, I have no problems with "I made $$$$" threads. As an advertiser, I don't begrudge publishers making a decent profit - as long as I get to make one from my advertising too.

It IS important that advertisers make money - but as publishers, we really don't have much perspective on how what we do affects the publishers return. I think that's why there aren't many threads on how to improve publishers returns - how would we know? All we get to see are our own stats - so we work with those - while trying not to do anything which would obviously harm publishers.

For example: blending ads in. Seems to work well for most publishers. Some users may mistake ads for navigation links and click through. We don't know what effect, if any, this has on advertisers, we can only speculate. In the absense of evidence, most of us do what works best for us.

If I had stats that said "you're killing the golden goose" - I might think again. But I'm not going to take a hit of thousands of dollars on the offchance!

robsynnott




msg:1384843
 12:21 am on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Erm, TV companies publicly say "I earned $$$$$$$$ from advertising", the advertisers don't seem to mind. Unseemly indeed...

rfung




msg:1384844
 12:45 am on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

this is silly - the question is why aren't we seeing adwords merchants asking how they should improve things on their end. Or, then again, why aren't we seeing merchants post 'how can i improve revenue for my publishers'?

besides isnt that where adwords forum is for?

posts of the nature 'I've made #*$!x' is almost in the same league as the mere existence of this Adsense forum. Sharing information? no way! it's just promoting new adsense users to jump into the fray. And yet, here we all are, sharing on the ups and downs, and trying to learn more from each other.

:)

jetteroheller




msg:1384845
 5:52 am on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Conversion rates?

My first big web site was for a carpet merchant.
More than 86.000 visitors in one year, but not one carpet for $500 per squaremeter minimal price sold.

He told me years leater, that it was a failure to mention the price.

An other client was always to tired to read his emails. Valuable leads for millions turn around.

A winegrower was 1 year not able to look on his emails and vailed the web site is good for nothing.

freeflight2




msg:1384846
 6:24 am on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

any idea what advertisers think when they view discussions such as have appeared here recently?
A:how can I sign up for adsense, too?
=> this way google can create a circle and profit multiple times.

OptiRex




msg:1384847
 1:27 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Anyone have any idea what advertisers think when they view discussions such as have appeared here recently?

Every advertiser in my niche love my directory site since it delivers them a global targeted viewing audience at very minimal cost.

To advertise with Google costs them probably USD 0.30 per click, to advertise in one national trade magazine for a full colour page with absolutely no guarantee that anyone will read the advert and a readership of some 7,500...USD 2-3000!

Multiply that by 30 magazines worlwide, now on which would you rather spend your advertising Dollars? I can get a press release on the site within minutes and to our entire subscriber base within 2 hours.

And, here's the killer...one of our major trade magazines (US based) has actually just asked us to feature them plus requested advertising rates, and only five years ago they dismissed us as "fly by nights"!

jahfingers




msg:1384848
 2:26 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

G wants everyone to talk about their adsense revenues, or else they wouldn't have changed the terms. What is good for G is good for me!

howiejs




msg:1384849
 4:18 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have mixed feelings about this. Also - don't believe everything you read :)

OptiRex




msg:1384850
 9:48 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Also - don't believe everything you read :)

howiejs - I'm not too sure where you're sitting on this but never mind, the fact is that not only do I have repeat Google Adwords advertisers for more than one year, I have noticed that some of them have actually increased their volume of advertising recently to 3 and even 4 different ad units.

This can only mean one of two things:

1. They're struggling and trying to get any business as fast as possible.

2. They regard it is so successful they want more of the same.

Of course there could be loads of little if's and but's however that is what is happening and the guys I personally know in my niche who do this are very happy with their advertising results.

They just cannot believe advertising can be so simple, effective and quantifiable.

howiejs




msg:1384851
 9:56 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

I meant - don't believe everything you read from publisher statements.

I agree advertising is up online (I play on both sides as an advertiser and publisher)

I am just saying, sometimes people throw out numbers to brag, sometimes they throw out numbers to put people off track (like their niche only earns $.03 cents a click . . . )

Tropical Island




msg:1384852
 10:17 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am now playing both sides of the game - AdWords & AdSense.

We are not currently using content however as the Easter season passes we will reactivate it to keep our visitor level up.

Content, last year, converted well within our expectations. We will see how it goes this year.

I don't mind seeing the earnings level of others - curiosity reigns supreme.

Being on both sides is teaching me that changes to our websites are necessary to benefit both user and AdSense.

beren




msg:1384853
 3:12 am on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm an advertiser, not a publisher, and when I saw that thread the first thing I thought was: this is going to induce more fraud. Some small earners are going to be so jealous of the big earners, that their tendency to click ads on their own sites will grow. "It's only fair, right? Why should others make hundreds and thousands per month and I make only $20 after all the work I put in." That's what I imagine going through heads.

Honestly, many threads here at Webmasterworld are ammunition in my attempts to keep publishers from activating content match. I've bookmarked several threads. There was even one thread where people explicitly bemoaned that they weren't making what they expected in one of my major sectors.

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