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This 38 message thread spans 2 pages: 38 ( [1] 2 > >     
Major Adsense Changes Coming...
markus007

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 5:21 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

[siliconvalleywatcher.com...]

Can't say i'm to thrilled about any changes that could force my revenue lower! I can see it now, the more advertisers that block your site the more smart pricing discounts your clicks...

 

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 5:30 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

This was discussed in an earlier thread. As a publisher, I'm all in favor of more advertiser controls, because advertisers have a vested interest in helping to maintain the network's quality by voting with their "block domain" filters. A higher-quality network = more advertisers = more money for publishers.

Besides, publishers can block advertisers, so why shouldn't advertisers be able to block publishers?

Visit Thailand

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 5:31 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

All these dicussions of allowing advertisers to choose which sites their ads appear on etc makes little sense to me on how it could work.

Unlike advertisers on a publishers site there are hundreds of thousands of sites where an ad could appear.

Unless G decides to start categories like Travel, Hosting or whatever and then cut the publishers up into categories such as Premium, Gold etc I cannot see how an advertiser would go through all the hundreds of thousands of sites where their ads might appear.

Will be very interesting to learn more about this.

freeflight2

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 5:47 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I cannot see how an advertiser would go through all the hundreds of thousands of sites where their ads might appear.

exactly... everybody who ever actually advertised on the content network learns this lesson pretty quickly. Besides that it's simply impossible to evaluate a site just by "looking" at it.

markus007

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 6:12 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

when i buy big keywords on google there are 3 or 4 sites on the content network that account for 90% of the traffic via adsense... Doesn't really matter what topic you pick.

Powdork

WebmasterWorld Senior Member powdork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 6:26 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I cannot see how an advertiser would go through all the hundreds of thousands of sites where their ads might appear.
No, but they can mine their referrer logs and identify areas they don't want to be involved with. I would more likely opt in for content if I could block certain areas, like the domain parks.
Visit Thailand

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 6:43 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

No, but they can mine their referrer logs and identify areas they don't want to be involved with. I would more likely opt in for content if I could block certain areas, like the domain parks.

True but again a massive procedure with new sites being added daily, and potentially thousands sending a click or two per day. We haven't even started on the sites which do not send clicks.

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 6:48 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Similarly, web site publishers have virtually no control over what types of ads Google sends their way. This has caused some shifting to competitors such as Kanoodle that offer such controls.

Themeing?

MarkHutch

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 6:57 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

No, but they can mine their referrer logs and identify areas they don't want to be involved with. I would more likely opt in for content if I could block certain areas, like the domain parks.

I totally agree with what you're saying. We started out adding Adsense to our sites a year or so ago. We made good money for awhile, but then noticed a drop off in revenue. About six months ago we started advertising on Adwords. When we started I wanted to include "content" on our campaigns because of our experience with Adsense. However, it became clear in sort order that "content" didn't convert well for us and it was much more profitable to turn that option off. I guess we're not the only ones that have turned it off or this wouldn't be happening.

oliver25

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 8:54 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)


Is it not possible for advertisers to contact publishers directly this way?

Freedom

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 10:03 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think this is a smart move as it punishes low quality websites and rewards high quality websites in a democratic type manner.

I think that more Adwords advertisers will turn on their content network advertising thereby releasing a flood of new ads only seen on the SERPS.

Last but not least, I think that Adwords advertisers won't have any reason or excuse at all to b--ch and whine about content advertisering/adsense publishers. If they don't like who/where their ad appears - block it. But don't come over here (to the adsense forum) preaching about the end of adsense because of a few low quality and unscrupulous publishers. The AS doom and gloom posts are getting old.

IMO.

Macro

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 11:48 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've argued for a while that the people with the wallets should get to choose which sites their ads don't appear on. I say that it's a good thing.

1. This is another disincentive for scraper scum.
2. It'll also serve as a further disincentive for those publishers encouraging their visitors to click ads (this is in addition to the risk they face of being thrown out for TOS violations). Google can't catch all such recommendations; some of them are by email and not on the page itself.
3. This will allow the Smart Pricing principles to work on a wider basis. Some sites that don't now disclose conversion figures to Google will be able to take advantage of the fact that visitors from certain types of sites tend to convert to customers and visitors from other types of sites don't.

Sure, some publishers will take a hit. If they do, it should be a learning lesson. If advertisers don't want their ads on your site there is something on your site you can improve to make it more attractive to them. They won't ban your site simply because they don't like your name.

The program will continue to evolve and the secret of succeeding is to be flexible enough to change and to continue providing what Adsense (and the advertisers) are really looking for.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 12:18 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

It would be great if advertisers could choose whose site their ads appear on because it's the proliferation of adsense ripoff sites that bleed advertiser budgets and lower bids for the better sites that particicpate in adsense. Sounds like a win-win IF its done right.

So, how do you present an advertiser with such options? It would be difficult to use a "screen out" out option due to the fact that a thousand different adsense sites may be carrying ads for particular keywords. A screen-in option might be easier but does that involve a "short list"?

And, if so, how is the short list created? Does it involve a vetting of sites. Didn't google post an advert on craig's list for website quality evaluation screeners recently?

darkmage

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 12:47 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am pretty sure that the new control will be like a beefed up version the URL filter we see on the Adsense panel. I suspect that an extra tweak maybe to show the top sites generating clicks, with an option to turn them off. This kind of advertiser control already exists in other ad networks.

After all, an advertiser won't care about the sites that don't generate clicks. That costs them nothing.

An extra twist would allow an advertiser to put in a tracking code so they can see conversions.

BTW: this is only conjecture.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 2:26 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

"I suspect that an extra tweak maybe to show the top sites generating clicks, with an option to turn them off. This kind of advertiser control already exists in other ad networksA"

It would be nice if an advertiser had the option to turn off all the scraper crap and bogus directory garabage. It would increase roi and possibly inflate bids. Better for everyone including publishers. Which ad networks just for curiosity's sake?

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 2:28 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

anyone have any clue as to the timetable for the rollout of these possible changes?

howiejs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 3:10 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

If there is such a feature it should be a site specific opt out vs opt in

Google would NEVER share / disclose a list of all of its publishers and ALL of their sites . . .

So advertisers could not say I like a, b, c

The change that we could see is an advertiser having a URL filter that says I dont want to be on site xyz.com

itisgene

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 3:14 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

As a Adsense advertiser, we will only look at the top 80% traffic drivers. I am guessing it will be only handful of publishers driving 80% of traffic through Adsense. We know which keywords are driving traffic and sales thorugh our internal reporting. We just don't know which site is driving traffic for specific search terms.

If I know one site is driving traffic to us that doesn;t convert, the site will be the first to go...

steve40

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 3:29 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

It might be nice if AS was to start a thread asking advertisers what they would like to see from a change in adwords and the type of interface they would like to see and use
This can only be good for all involved as it will help advertisers with ROI and possibly allow the cpc to rise on quality referrers , Also may encourage back some of the advertisers to turn content back on
As an advertiser I have been forced to turn content off completly on many campaigns due to poor ROI if i believed my poor ROI could turn back to profit would turn content back on

PS It may be nice if G also helped publishers by being much more stringent on some of the ebay
"find dead presidents" etc adds
As a publisher I would prefer 2 correctly targetted adds to my visitors only displayed than 2 targetted and 2 absolute c?p , but do not have the time or inclination to be spending time on a daily basis to find who is creating the latest load of garbage to bypass quality checks

Maybe G could add to the publishers a box that says only display truly targetted adds similar to broadmatch / exact match for publishers

steve

ogletree

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ogletree us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 3:34 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

It won't affect things that much. Most people don't know how to use the features in adwords right now. Also very few people know what logs are much like how to look at them.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 3:54 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Is it not possible for advertisers to contact publishers directly this way?

Advertisers can contact publishers directly now. Most don't, for several reasons:

1) It's seldom cost-effective to deal directly with publishers unless the publishers can offer a high volume of impressions.

2) Only in very rare cases would a publisher be able to offer the degree of contextual targeting that's available through AdWords/AdSense.

3) AdWords/AdSense lets advertisers spread their money (and their risk) around by aggregating impressions and click referrals from many sites.

As for another poster's suggestion that domain blocking for advertisers is impractical because there are too many publishers, that's like saying that domain blocking for publishers is impractical because there are too many advertisers.

IMHO, AdSense ads with more advertiser controls will come, either because Google recognizes the need or because the next generation of AdSense competitors forces Google to protect its market share. As I've said before, AdSense is a first-generation product, and one would have to be naive to assume that Google will never offer product extensions that can attract a greater variety of advertisers and offer higher profit margins.

Livenomadic

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 4:00 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I cannot wait for Google to impliment a way to make it impossible to click on my own ads accidently.

My last accidental click was over a year ago but I will admit that I am paranoid about browsing my own site on my home computer.

There have been a couple close calls (mainly when I click in a window to bring it to the front only to get very close to clicking on an ad).

I would be so happy if google could figure out some way to make my own clicks not count... No idea on how to do this... but I am not getting paid to think about it.

loanuniverse

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 4:04 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I do not have a problem with this. Just hope that the few thousand impressions a day that my site has is enough to keep me in the radar. However, "themeing" should improve the ROI for advertisers as they can probably target better.

How about, big category such as "Travel & Leisure"

sub-cats such as:

"Portals" "Hotels & Resorts" "Travel Agencies" "Geographical distinctions" etc.

A particular site could match up with several sub cats.

In addition, further targetting could be acomplished by traffic sub-cats such as traffic available

1-50,000 Impressions
50,001 - 100,000 Impressions
100,001 - 250,000 Impressions
... so on ....
Run of Network

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 4:24 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Only in very rare cases would a publisher be able to offer the degree of contextual targeting that's available through AdWords/AdSense"

however, if you exist in a niche where the advertisers are bent on capturing form information i.e. referrals, then contextual ads and targeting aren't part of the equation. Simply capture the form data yourself and have the advertiser receive it directly.

"AdWords/AdSense lets advertisers spread their money (and their risk) around by aggregating impressions and click referrals from many sites."

In my niche, nearly every other publisher is a scraper or bogus directory site.

efv, when did the rules change regarding publishers contacting advertisers?

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 5:30 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

however, if you exist in a niche where the advertisers are bent on capturing form information i.e. referrals, then contextual ads and targeting aren't part of the equation. Simply capture the form data yourself and have the advertiser receive it directly.

Many of the advertisers that I see on my pages are seeking leads, not immediate e-commerce transactions. Contextual advertising is very cost-effective for them. Take a travel agency that's advertising for the keyphrase "Elbonian luxury raft cruises": It can reach readers of my handful of pages that are devoted to Elbonian luxury raft cruises, along with readers of Elbonian luxury raft cruises at other European travel and cruising sites.

efv, when did the rules change regarding publishers contacting advertisers?

They didn't. The question was about advertising contacting publishers. That's pretty easy for advertisers to do in many cases. For example, the travel agency that's selling "Elbonian luxury raft cruises" can do a Google search and find any number of pages on that topic (including pages with AdSense ads). And, of course, some advertisers will know from referrer logs where those Elbonian luxury raft-cruise clicks are coming from.

universetoday

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 8:00 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think this is a great idea, and I feel confident that advertisers won't turn my site off for Adsense; however, I've got a few comments:

- advertisers should see some kind of percentage beside different publishers to see which are the most "trusted" (least canceled). Maybe they could even sort by this criteria.

- there should be a way for Adsense publishers to know that advertisers are rejecting them (not necessarily which ones). This will encourage them to clean up their act.

- there should be a way for publishers to beg advertisers to give them another chance. In other words, if I've fixed the problems and cleaned up my act.

- Adsense publishers should be terminated if too many advertisers cancel them.

Paul_N

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 8:09 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Can anyone give me an example of what exactly a scraper site is?

Macro

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 8:22 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>some advertisers will know from referrer logs where those Elbonian luxury raft-cruise clicks are coming from.

Do they? I didn't think the publisher showed up in the referrer logs.

Paul_N, you've got a sticky (to prevent the thread going off topic).

loanuniverse

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 8:27 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Can anyone give me an example of what exactly a scraper site is?

There are several types. The most accurate would be one that has pages that resemble SERPS on high-value keywords. Think of the result page that you get on Google when you search "widget" and imagine a page just like that with Google adsense ads. The thing is that these can be generated by a script and because of the way that they are generated "I suspect using Google's own SERP database" they achieve excellent targeting for the terms that they are going for.

There are a lot of other low-quality sites out there using the "gibberish keyword blah blah keyword yada yada yada keyword" method also, but not sure that those would be considered scraper.

howiejs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5170 posted 9:16 pm on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Giving a URL filter to advertisers to block sites would be OK.

It would work if they saw a site they did not like (for whatever reason)

But how do they know which publishers are running their ads?

I can't imagine google EVER disclosing all of their publishers

This 38 message thread spans 2 pages: 38 ( [1] 2 > >
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