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Fraudulent clicks problem
PolishGuy




msg:1378947
 3:25 pm on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)


Why Google cannot secure some technical solution to fraudulant clicks problem? Just ignore clicks if these are more than one from given IP address. It is that simple.

Has anybody else an idea how to solve Fraudulant Clicks problem?

(by mistake, just when I was switching among windows, I clicked on my AdSense banner - it is ill and insane that I have to worry now that Google can drop me because of such innocence...)

This is nothing less than terror. Google is terrorizing us, AdSense using publishers...

 

chiyo




msg:1378948
 3:33 pm on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>Just ignore clicks if these are more than one from given IP address. It is that simple. <<

Not that simple...

does not take account of people without a static IP (eg: aol)

some clickers may legitimately wish to click on more than one ad, - on the same page, or different ones. They may want to compare prices, or see the different offerings of competitive advertisers.

the real smart guys who want to defraud an advertiser know how to "change" their IP address and click on them from many adsense sites and google serps.

Visi




msg:1378949
 3:57 pm on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Polish Guy...suggest some cold beer...a warm pool...and hot sunshine to correct this problem:)

No sense losing sleep over it...we found out that the web actually ran without us in the past couple of days. All here were surprised as we had no way to check it out every hour or so:):)

Relax....don't think Google really concerned about one accidental click...course you never really know...its like a first date kiss...they just keep you wondering:)

Jenstar




msg:1378950
 4:04 pm on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

PolishGuy, check out this thread. [webmasterworld.com] It appears that Google realizes how important this is, and will be implementing something in the future.

PolishGuy




msg:1378951
 4:16 pm on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)


PolishGuy, check out this thread. It appears that Google realizes how important this is, and will be implementing something in the future.

nothing special there, besides this I am speaking about some bullet proof technical solution here, not about "sending email to google each time you suspect something". I want to have peace of mind and time to create content and not to worry about fraudulant clicks terror...


Relax....don't think Google really concerned about one accidental click...course you never really know...its like a first date kiss...they just keep you wondering:)

exactly! this "you never really know" is the worst thing it can be. I want peace of mind. I don't want to worry about it. Google please do something serious about this problem!

Visi




msg:1378952
 6:25 pm on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Has response ready for when (if ever) I recieve the email. Feel free to substitute appropriate names as necessary:)

Dear Mr Adsense Guy (Gal)

In my humble opinion I shoould not have recieved the email. I am a cable user and as such leave my computer on. In the past I have noticed that my cat (mr Tom) sometimes plays with the mouse (as all cats love to do). Perhaps he has inadvertantly clicked on the ads? I know that this click was not humanly generated as we have a rule that all childrens hands must be in mittens when entering the computer room. We can vouch for the dog as he is too stupid to click the mouse, and has other interests such as sleeping that occupy his time.

As such we would request that you give consideration to letting us continue in the program. As your humble servant we will allow you to pick the appropriate punishment for the cat. Please note he has been previously fixed, so chose something else.

Polish-Guy...feel free to use the above if they contact you.:):) It's one of those situations you cannot control, so why loose sleep over it?

JasonHamilton




msg:1378953
 8:10 pm on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Actually you have complete control over clicking on the adsense ads, or rather, complete control over preventing yourself from clicking on them.

If you are really worried about preventing accidental clicks, so far as you'd not mind preventing yourself on clicking on adsense ads on ANY website, you can always add to your hosts file an entry for the adsense server to point to 127.0.0.1

HTH

jonknee




msg:1378954
 3:48 pm on Aug 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Can you not purchase stuff through your own ads? I haven't yet, but if I see something I plan on getting being advertised on my own site, I would sure click through and buy it.

Jenstar




msg:1378955
 4:35 pm on Aug 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

The Google terms make it pretty clear that you shouldn't click your own AdSense ads no matter what.

https://www.google.com/adsense/faq#basics9
Please note that clicking on your own ads for any reason is also prohibited because this has the potential to inflate advertiser costs.

There is just too much opportunity for abuse, even if webmasters are legitimately clicking, because where do you draw the line? Anyone could claim they were interested in 30 ads a day ;) This is exactly why so many AdWords advertisers are leery of having their ads appear as AdSense ads - because of the potential of fraud, and people clicking for not legitimate reasons.

Simply right click the link, view properties, then extract the destination URL from the ad, and you can go directly to it without charging the advertiser for a click (or get tagged for fraudulent clicks by Google).

yoyo8




msg:1378956
 8:01 pm on Aug 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

The Google terms make it pretty clear that you shouldn't click your own AdSense ads no matter what.

Although that is in the FAQ I found no mention of that in their terms of service. Therefore it would not be going against the terms to click on one's site ad, it would be going against the FAQ.

Maybe I'm mistaken and it is listed in the terms? BTW, I never click on my own ads, ever.

devlin




msg:1378957
 9:04 pm on Aug 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Jenstar said:

PolishGuy, check out this thread. It appears that Google realizes how important this is, and will be implementing something in the future.

Yes, but in this thread I said that I had a different reply from that that the topic starter, pmkpmk had.

Google told pmkpmk that they would discount clicks from a specific IP address.

But Google told methat:

They do not filter clicks from specific IP addresses Do not filter clicks from specific IP addresses and saying "To avoid the possibility of fraudulent clicks being associated with your account, please do not click on the ads on your site(s)"

It seems (obvious conclusion) that the best way to avaoid the 'terror' messages is just NOT to click on ads on your own site. Seems pretty clear to me.

D.

Jenstar




msg:1378958
 9:04 pm on Aug 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>> Although that is in the FAQ I found no mention of that in their terms of service.

It is a part of the AdSense terms, because the terms refers to the FAQ as being a part of it. Right at the top of the terms (capitals were Google's, not mine):

PARTICIPATION IN THE GOOGLE ADSENSE PROGRAM INDICATES THAT YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND THE FAQ. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OR THE FAQ, PLEASE DO NOT REGISTER FOR THE GOOGLE ADSENSE PROGRAM.

followed by:

This agreement ("Agreement") between You and Google Technology Inc. ("Google") consists of these Google AdSense Program (the "Program") Standard Terms and Conditions ("Terms and Conditions") and the Program Frequently Asked Questions ("FAQ") (either of which may be modified from time to time),

So as terms of the program you are agreeing to follow everything in the FAQ and everything in the "Google AdSenseTM Standard Terms and Conditions".

And the fact is, Google knows they have a much better chance at getting people to read a FAQ than any of the legalese found in the terms ;) Although I must commend Google - theirs is pretty short compared to many of the terms I see (and yes, read). But I do agree with you, why wasn't it specifically mention in the terms as well? The closest it comes to it is

You shall not, and shall not authorize or encourage any third party to: (i) generate fraudulent impressions of or fraudulent clicks on any Ad(s)

but that wouldn't cover the webmaster "honestly interested in one of the ads". But perhaps that is why they give us the 2 or 3 test clicks without getting a fraud warning, but anything more than that would likely be fraud anyway.

I wonder if there will be an update to those terms to include specifically this at some point ;)

Jenstar




msg:1378959
 9:08 pm on Aug 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

It seems (obvious conclusion) that the best way to avaoid the 'terror' messages is just NOT to click on ads on your own site. Seems pretty clear to me.

I completely agree - even if I could discount my IP, I'd be looking at it mainly from the impressions point of view. You still wouldn't catch my clicking one of my AdSense ads, even if I WAS legitimately interested in it. Too much risk IMO, and what if I had a new IP and forgot to change it with Google? I could have gone on a click-happy spree, and would then get the treaded fraudulent clicks/impressions email. Even pmkpmk admitted it took him 3 days to get up the courage to click a single ad ;)

yoyo8




msg:1378960
 1:06 am on Aug 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

It is a part of the AdSense terms, because the terms refers to the FAQ as being a part of it.

OK, I see now. I understand how more people read the FAQ but still, that seems awkward to say the least that contract points would be included in the FAQ but not the actual terms. After all, FAQ is Frequently Asked Questions, which should be a SUBSET of the terms etc, not the other way around.

Visi




msg:1378961
 1:31 am on Aug 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Jenstar...nice to see someone else reads before they sign. Found Googles terms like you, refreshingly short. Try reading some of the others out there, and ones we have left unsigned that have penalty clauses for breach, involving dollars you pay. The breach of the contract was at their sole discretion. At least Google just sending letters and discontinuing the contract rather than sending a bill with it. It pays in more ways than one to understand the contract you are entering into, and what constitutes a breach of that.

In this case Google has made it clear they are the sole judge and jury. You have the option of opting out. Terms are stated clearly. As far as FAQ being addendum, not that unusual and allows them to define issues more clearly without reissuing complete terms. I can live with that, I just wish they would send an email notifying me of this rather than the statement, that I must read again and again, to find differences. In my opinion Google is going above the stated terms by notifying of a possible issue, before removing the accounts. That is why I cannot regard these notifications as "terror" mails, but see them actually as the opening of dialogue between partners that a potential issue exists.

Jenstar




msg:1378962
 2:08 am on Aug 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

It easy for Google AdSense to add to the FAQ as needed, but any rewrite to the terms would require a legal team combing through the entire thing again. So it does make sense for them to include the reference to the FAQ as being part of the terms a publisher agrees to.

I do wish they'd date the FAQ so we know when it was updated, especially since we need to keep up on any changes. The last change to the FAQ (as far as I can tell) was right before they added the related searches and color schemes. The actual terms haven't been updated since pre-launch.

That is why I cannot regard these notifications as "terror" mails

Neither do I. But I am sure they get the heart pounding when it first arrives in a publishers in box! But if they didn't have them, the system would be too easy to abuse, and in the end it would be the honest and legitimate publishers that would lose out.

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