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Adsense ads opening in a new window.
getting the user back from advertisers page.
colinf




msg:1384934
 7:27 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ok, i think adsense has a lot of potential, very nicely done,my application was accepted.
I have uploaded a couple of links and it seems to me the only way for me to make any money is to ..er... delete them again!

I know it is new and needs ironing out, so a couple of arguable points from me:

1. Someone lands on my site because they made a search for "green shoes" with an IMPULSE to buy, and on the adsense links they see "blue shoes" they might think,
" oh...i'll have a quick peek" so they click on the link, and my site is gone because the adsense links do not open a new window in your browser, so they click here, click there, etc on the new website which appears, but then they say .... "no thanks i prefer to go back to the
"green shoes" website, but where is it? so the impulse for green shoes is gone and me in my infinate wisdom made 5 cents for an Ad click and lost 5 dollars on a potential sale because they could not get back
to me quick enough (not everyone understands the workings of a web browser).

Google, please let the links open up a new window so people can click till their fingers hurt,
but my site is still open somewhere on their taskbar.

2.
At the top of the links is "Ads by Google"
why don't they write "these links are here because this person has absolutely
no interest in what you are looking for, instead they want to make money from advertisements, no matter where they might lead you to
which is why they are slapping the words "ads from google" all over the place"?.

Google, it may be a small point but it looks so blatant.
why dont you first allow the use of center tags for "ads by google")
and write something like:

1. "Are these Ads helpful?"
2. "why are these Ads here?"
3. "help us help you"
4. "expanding your experience"
blah blah

So, got that off my chest, gonna drink a cold beer!

colinf

 

gopi




msg:1384935
 7:41 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)


At the top of the links is "Ads by Google"
why don't they write "these links are here because this person has absolutely
no interest in what you are looking for, instead they want to make money from advertisements, no matter where they might lead you to
which is why they are slapping the words "ads from google" all over the place"?.

LOL , but colinf i personally think associating that links with google brand name gives some sort of credibility .

Maybe instead of "Ads by google" they may use "Sponsored links by Google" - takes more space but sounds less commercial

ggrot




msg:1384936
 7:47 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Perhaps a commercial site that sells stuff shouldn't be running banner ads?

Shak




msg:1384937
 7:58 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Perhaps a commercial site that sells stuff shouldn't be running banner ads?

I agree.

Google are paying on CPC, so there is NO reason why you should be expecting their ads to open in a new window.

Adsense is GREAT for content, information sites based on relenvance of topic and targetted traffic, sure beats seeing a Gambling banner on a childrens site.

I think far too many expect Google Adsense to be a quick way of making money, where in reality its hard work, but if done right, the rewards will beat a lot of other types of online media from a publishers point of view.

Shak

ThatAdamGuy




msg:1384938
 8:36 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Shak said:

Google are paying on CPC, so there is NO reason why you should be expecting their ads to open in a new window.

I'm sorry, I don't follow. What does CPC have to do with the target window?

And Webmasters... can we think of ANY legitimate advantages to Google for giving us a target="_blank" option? I know WE want this (and understandably so), but I can't honestly think of compelling reasons to persuade Google.

gopi




msg:1384939
 8:45 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

>> can we think of ANY legitimate advantages to Google for giving us a target="_blank" option

Opening in a new window reduces a advertisers ROI , thats the reason even regular adwords open in the same window.

Anyway if the user dont like the advertiser's site and if the publishser's content is good they are going to clik the back button!

Shak




msg:1384940
 8:45 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm sorry, I don't follow. What does CPC have to do with the target window?

If a publisher is getting paid on a CPC basis, then he should acceept the fact that the user has found a destination more suited to his needs/requirements.

If they dont like it, then, they shouldnt be running the ads in the 1st place (imo).

My job as a publisher is to get them to MY site, and then make revenue out of them, personally I dont want them back.

As an advertiser, if I have paid for the VISITOR, then I will do as I wish :)

Shak

DavidT




msg:1384941
 8:59 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

My Google Adsense ads open in a new window. Site is in frames so clearly they factored this in.

ThatAdamGuy




msg:1384942
 9:02 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hmm. I guess you and I have different views on publishers' roles ;) I like to keep people on my site, engaging them for a good length of time so they are tempted to sign up for my newsletter and return often to see new features and info I've posted.

And here are my arguments for opening ads in a new window:

  1. Users may be buried on a deep page on my site in an information section (say, about specs for a particular camera). I think most users are accustomed to ads opening in a new window, and when this doesn't happen, they're likely to be confused and/or annoyed at losing their place.[/li]

  2. ALL major affiliate programs I've ever been a part of (amazon, cj, befree, linkshare) allow the publisher to open ads in a new window.[/li]

  3. As an ADVERTISER, I'd like having my page displayed separately, not having to worry about users tempted to hit the back button to get back to an interesting page on the publisher's site.[/li]

What are some arguments AGAINST Google allowing this?

Shak




msg:1384943
 9:11 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

different opinons is what makes this place so great, we agree on that right :)

Users may be buried on a deep page on my site in an information section (say, about specs for a particular camera). I think most users are accustomed to ads opening in a new window, and when this doesn't happen, they're likely to be confused and/or annoyed at losing their place.

Most users are accustomed, because the publisher wanted it this way, NOT the advertiser.

ALL major affiliate programs I've ever been a part of (amazon, cj, befree, linkshare) allow the publisher to open ads in a new window.

Why should Google adsense be the same as affiliate programs.

As an ADVERTISER, I'd like having my page displayed separately, not having to worry about users tempted to hit the back button to get back to an interesting page on the publisher's site.

As an advertiser, MY job is to make sure they even forget how they got to MY site, and instead worry about quick they can type their credit card details in on MYorder form, and make ME lots of $$$s.

I will agree that my arguements may not be that strong, but to make a big fuss over the new window, on a program which could potentially change the whole money making route for small content/information sites is a bit crazy (iMo)

Shak

europeforvisitors




msg:1384944
 9:45 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

I like "Ads by Google" just fine.

First, the caption makes it clear that the ads are coming from Google and its advertisers--not from me.

Second, I'd much rather have an ad called an "ad" and not a "sponsored link." (The latter suggests a relationship between the advertiser and my site, and it also suggests that I had a role in selecting or at least approving the link.)

As for the question of whether advertisers' pages should open in a new window, I prefer the option that delivers the highest ROI for advertisers. Higher ROI = happier advertisers = more competition for AdSense ads = higher clickthrough payments.

woop01




msg:1384945
 9:56 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think this pretty much settles my decision of whether to keep funding Adsense ads or not. Iíve already seen too many examples on WW of webmasters trying to find ways around the way the system is designed. Couple that with the fact that I canít track the difference between Adwords and Adsense and itís a cut and dry case.

Iíll be honest with the posters who want the clicks to open in a new window. If you want to keep your users on your site, Iíll keep my money in my pocket. If you were an affiliate of mine, you could do whatever you want with the links. However, if you expect people like me to pay you for the clicks, I expect you to send me the users Iím paying for.

Of course, if Google adds the ability to track the Adsense clicks, I'll be right back in it.:)

europeforvisitors




msg:1384946
 10:38 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Iíll be honest with the posters who want the clicks to open in a new window. If you want to keep your users on your site, Iíll keep my money in my pocket. If you were an affiliate of mine, you could do whatever you want with the links. However, if you expect people like me to pay you for the clicks, I expect you to send me the users Iím paying for.

There's certainly plenty of precedent for the "new window" alternative. Banner and other display ads often open in a new window, and--more to the point--so do the AdWords leaderboards, skyscrapers, and banners that are running on at least two ad networks.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing in favor of the "new window" approach. If you were advertising on my site, I'd give you whatever window you wanted. :-)

colinf




msg:1384947
 11:41 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am arguing in favour of the new window approach and i find it tragic that most of you do not get it!

THE REASON, repeat THE REASON someone CLICKED on my link from google/yahoo/atw/lycos etc is because what i offered in the title/description of the search engine is exactly what they were looking, and when they land on my site they see the "Green shoes" they want, but out of PURE curiosity they see a link for Blue shoes and just want to look, so why, OH WHY, can that link not open in a new window?
If they like the blue shoes on that site they can buy them, if they go deep into that site and eventually get sent to another site and another and after 5 minutes surfing decide MY offer was the best and want to go back, they suddenly realize they have to work their way back. The impulse is gone.

#### LOL , but colinf i personally think associating that links with google brand name gives some sort of credibility#### wrote someone above.
Credibility on what basis? are you telling me that every internet user knows Google? who associates google with advertising "green shoes"? does google make these shoes, do they pay you back if you are not satisfied? If i have a problem with one of these ads when i buy from there website can i set my lawers on Google beacause they offered credability to said Ad?

#### Perhaps a commercial site that sells stuff shouldn't be running banner ads? ####
now i am losing the plot!, what percentage of "commercial" sites do not run ads on the internet?
If i sell "green shoes" i may want to advertise membership to a "Green Shoe" club so i can earn commission on each new member, i may want to sell "Green shoe" cleaner and make a commission on each sale.

### If a publisher is getting paid on a CPC basis, then he should acceept the fact that the user has found a destination more suited to his needs/requirements.###
how does he know he has "found a destination more suited to his needs/requirements" UNTIL he clicks on an Ad (wonderful, then i have made 5 cents) maybe he then realizes he has not found a better offer, but he was taken so deep into the new site that he cannot get back to me! so even more wonderful, i have lost a potential $5 commission sale.

## My Google Adsense ads open in a new window. Site is in frames so clearly they factored this in. ###

i do not build frame based websites because then i would probably confuse the search engines and not be listed high enough that anyone finds my site anyway! so my whole argument would be irrelevant!

#### Hmm. I guess you and I have different views on publishers' roles ;) I like to keep people on my site, engaging them for a good length of time so they are tempted to sign up for my newsletter and return often to see new features and info I've posted. And here are my arguments for opening ads in a new window: Users may be buried on a deep page on my site in an information section (say, about specs for a particular camera). I think most users are accustomed to ads opening in a new window, and when this doesn't happen, they're likely to be confused and/or annoyed at losing their place.####

oh lord...finally, someone gets it.

I wont reply to Shaks mail, the words fail me.

#### First, the caption makes it clear that the ads are coming from Google and its advertisers--not from me.### wrote someone above.

Obviously it makes it clear the ads are coming from Google, everyone knows they are adverts, but not everyone knows Google, as i stated in my original mail why not say something like:

1. "Are these Ads helpful?"
2. "why are these Ads here?"
3. "help us help you"
4. "expanding your experience"

and do you know what? that will make people more curious and they will click on the links (..now only if a new window opened up!)

### Second, I'd much rather have an ad called an "ad" and not a "sponsored link." (The latter suggests a relationship between the advertiser and my site, and it also suggests that I had a role in selecting or at least approving the link.)####
I do not recall saying it should be named a "sponsered link", and OBVIOUSLY you had a role in selecting the link if you joined adsense, just like i did, MY GOD, i love the fact that they came up with this idea, i just want to argue that a new window should open!

Finally (..who said that?)
IF a new window opens it means MY page is still there, THAT MEANS ....wait for it...all those adverts are STILL THERE, if they click on another Ad another window opens but my window is still there, THAT MEANS
... wait for it... THE ADVERTS are still there, the possibilities are endless, now if that is not good for google or the advertisers OR for me, then i give up.

ThatAdamGuy




msg:1384948
 11:55 pm on Jun 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

[ I moved the content of my original post here to a new thread [webmasterworld.com] since it was really veering towards a separate topic. Specifically, in the new thread I talk about communicating info about AdSense and its presence on my pages to my users -- Adam ]

woop01




msg:1384949
 1:17 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

colinf,

In that case, Iíll loan you the white flag to give up. The only person who profits in the situation you just described is you. You completely ignore whether or not the advertisers make money or not and only focus on whether you get credit for another click for your site. Itís disturbing that you believe that you can describe a successful publisher/advertiser relationship without even mentioning whether or not the advertiser made a sale.

Remember, unless the ADVERTISERS make money off of the clicks, the entire deck of cards falls. Would you be willing to tell every Adsense advertiser in person that you want their link to open in another window so the user could come back to your site? More importantly, would you be willing to let them know which website you manage so they could block you from getting their ad if they then wished to do so?

ThatAdamGuy




msg:1384950
 1:37 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think one of the assumptions I'd like to challenge here is the notion that advertisers would really care one way or another whether their site opens up in the original window or a new window. In either case, they've got someone's attention.

If a significant number of advertisers really had a problem with this -- especially with it being an advertiser's market so strongly these last few years -- do you really think *ALL* the major ad firms (Burst et al) would be serving the majority or all of their banners and text links to open in new windows?

This is what web surfers EXPECT. Click on a link that leads to a page within a given site, that page appears in the same window. Click on a link -- particularly of an advertiser -- that leads to a page on a different site, it appears in a NEW window. If anything, I'd think users might resent being sent to a separate site and losing their original place.

I'd like to hear from some more advertisers here, specifically:
- Do you have any preferences on this topic? If so, why?
- Can you explain why the vast majority of ad brokers have served ads that open in a new window?

europeforvisitors




msg:1384951
 1:46 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

THE REASON, repeat THE REASON someone CLICKED on my link from google/yahoo/atw/lycos etc is because what i offered in the title/description of the search engine is exactly what they were looking, and when they land on my site they see the "Green shoes" they want, but out of PURE curiosity they see a link for Blue shoes and just want to look, so why, OH WHY, can that link not open in a new window?
If they like the blue shoes on that site they can buy them, if they go deep into that site and eventually get sent to another site and another and after 5 minutes surfing decide MY offer was the best and want to go back, they suddenly realize they have to work their way back...

Google may allow commercial sites to run AdSense ads, but I think it's pretty clear that the ads are geared toward content sites. Google's own promotional text for AdSense refers to "publishers" (not "marketers"), "readers" (not "prospects" or "customers"), and "content pages" (not "product pages" or "shopping carts.") So a more accurate scenario would be that the reader is looking for information on high heels, finds a page about that topic at historyofshoes.com or shoefetishists.org, and is intrigued enough by an AdSense ad for green shoes to click on it.

I think Google is going to have to take a long, hard look at either limiting the use of AdSense ads on commercial sites or giving advertisers the ability to select the sites where they want their ads to run. Otherwise, advertisers are going to end up paying through the nose for casual clicks by shoppers who see AdSense banners on competitors' e-commerce sites and decide to compare prices before buying their $19.95 widgets or $25.99 whatsits.

woop01




msg:1384952
 2:02 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thatadamguy,

I may be able to agree with you regarding the impact of opening a new window.

However, the entire idea behind what this thread was started over, a user clicks on an ad goes to the site and the goes back without doing anything, is what bothers me. If publishers consider that type of scenario a success, it ruins the program. The only person who benefits in that type of transaction is the publisher. That's good for the publisher only until the advertiser figures this out and drops Adsense all together.

BTW, just for reference, I run an online community and use Adwords to get new users and also run Adsense ads to our non-subscribers. The only things we sell on our site are subscriptions.

[edited by: woop01 at 2:54 am (utc) on June 26, 2003]

buckworks




msg:1384953
 2:27 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think it's flatly inaccurate that "most" users expect ads to open in a new window. Have you ever done any usability testing to verify this?

I have, and because of what I observed looking over some shoulders, I ended up redoing a 10,000 page site so that every link opened into the same window. New windows simply caused people to become disoriented, and broke one of the web's most basic navigation devices, the Back button.

Another thing to consider: some too-eager popup blockers will prevent target=_blank windows from opening.

As an advertiser, I don't want anyone or anything except my own copy inducing people to click my ads. The less you say about it, the better.

danny




msg:1384954
 4:45 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I loathe and detest having new windows open when I follow links. If the AdSense ads did that without opt-out, I'd probably drop them.

colinf




msg:1384955
 6:17 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Some excellent points made above,
now i understand why there are arguements against it.

Obviously Google cannot please everybody but maybe, as mentioned above, there could be an option from Google to have or not have a new window open, (if technically possible) then Google WOULD please everybody, especially me!

ThatAdamGuy




msg:1384956
 7:29 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Speaking of pleasing everyone, Google really could offer BOTH publishers AND advertisers to choose whether ads open in new windows.

On an Advertiser control panel:

Do you wish to allow having your ad displayed on a new page (new window) when a visitor clicks on your link? By choosing YES, your impressions and click-thrus may increase due to greater publisher acceptance.

And on an AdSense control panel:

Do you wish to have your AdWords links open a new window when clicked? Be aware that -- due to publisher preferences -- selecting YES may potentially limit the diversity and/or amount of ads available to you.

As noted above, I'd frankly prefer to have the default for everyone be target="_new" but I'd think that my proposed compromise above would make everyone happy :). Advertisers would have the option of having their ads shown ONLY in the 'same' window as the link, and publishers would have the option of getting ads displayed in a new window.

What do you think?

bcc1234




msg:1384957
 8:19 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

ThatAdamGuy, you are missing two points:
1) There are plenty of people who are just learning to use the Internet and browse pages. You would not believe the stupidity (in technical sense) of some requests and comments I get from my customers over the phone and in e-mail. Most of those people get disoriented by new windows popping up. It does break concentration (and they need a lot of it).

2) The savvy ones who are fed up with pop-ups, subconsciously perceive anything that pops up as something negative. An advertiser would still get his eyeballs, and the visitors would still browse the site, but the buying implse would be held back by that feeling.

In both of those cases ROI suffers.
The advertising is not about publishers, but about advertisers and consumers. Those two parties and the ones that matter - especially with the current economy.

CherryHintonBlue




msg:1384958
 8:38 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I thought what we should all be aiming for in good, considerate web design is to leave the user in control? Forcing new windows to open is simply forcing the web designer's (possibly unwanted) preferences on the users, who are quite capable of right- or option-clicking on the ad and opening it in a new window if they want to (but only if they want to).

I'm not sure if this "new window keeps readers on the site" argument stands up anyway. The ad opens up in a new window, the users are then in that window, and can't go "Back" to the original site with navigation buttons. They stay in that new window for the rest of their session, and may never even remember, lurking in the background, the original site where they saw the ad. As a user, I'd rather stay in the same window, take a look at the advertiser's site, then if I want to go back to the original site, I can do so with just a few clicks of the "Back" button (the instinctive thing to do). Give me a new window (and a greyed out "Back" button) and that's it for the original site, as far as I'm concerned. I might notice it flashing before my eyes again later as I quit out of the browser and the windows close down.

It's many years since Jakob Nielsen described new browser windows as "self-defeating" and "like a vacuum cleaner sales person who starts a visit by emptying an ash tray on the customer's carpet" - [useit.com...] - but I'm not sure much has changed.

If it was possible for the *advertiser* to choose "new window or not", then that would be OK by me. But it must remain the choice of the *advertiser*.

uioreanu




msg:1384959
 10:15 am on Jun 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

adsense is just a new-born kid. If you look at the JavaScript code, there are variables that control the layout, and surelly there are hidden variables that can say if the links should popup or not and background color control and so on; it's just that we don't have them yet. They started with a "fixed" structure, and they will follow the common-sense requests

TravelMan




msg:1384960
 7:42 am on Jun 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Great thread!

Id like to have the option to specify in the code target=blank too. For the time being I'm considering adding a little bit of text to say "Right click to open in new window") Sure, lots of people know this already, but many many do not! (Well, my Dad didn't until I showed him)

I hear the arguments around advertisers and the roi differences between parent and blank. With regard to advertisers and tracking, I agree with the sentiments expressed that indicate a need for advertisers to see where their clicks came from and whether they converted or not. If site x sends me 1000 visitors a week costs me £500 but only gives me £100 worth of sales then, as an advertiser, I'd want the option of dropping them like a hot brick.

Someone remarked that perhaps adsense shouldnt really be on commercial websites. Well, I think that ultimately it doesnt really matter, I think it can still be a win win situation.

If you are selling a product and you want to make a sale then of course, you should have sufficient hooks within your webpage to make it happen. If adsense is there too and sharing a part of the terroritory, and a user happens to click one and find a better product at a better price then so be it. I may have lost out to a cheaper option, or better product but I still win a little. I obviously do not have what the user *really* wanted, otherwise I would have made the sale. Far better IMHO to have adsense there regardless of whether its 'commercial' or 'content' based material.

From an adwords customer perspective, I guess that ultimately you can always specify whether your ads appear in the adsense network, so, if you have any concerns you have a quick exit route.

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