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This 35 message thread spans 2 pages: 35 ( [1] 2 > >     
Ad Quality
slobizman




msg:1357582
 4:29 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

I run a conservative political website (<snip>). Google is serving me ads that are the exact OPPOSITE of what I can sell. Right now, I have 3 of the 4 ads trying to sell the Hillary Clinton book! That's been running for the last 24 hours it seems. At best I might get two ads that are something conservatives would want.

Google says that they are not able to define a site as on the right or on the left politically, and serve the correct ads. There are so many political sites out there, with the election coming up, it seems they have to address this issue. It's not only unproductive, it's embarrassing.

Does anyone have any suggestions, or know any work arounds?

[edited by: engine at 5:25 pm (utc) on Aug. 8, 2003]
[edit reason] No urls, thanks. See TOS [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]

 

killroy




msg:1357583
 4:35 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well, you tell us what keywords define the conservatives and which the .. erm others (republicans? democrats? I can never tell with american politics), and you got half the ticket.

Problem is with your site as with mine, by the time folks arrive there you kinda assume they know where they are, so you don't stamp "CONSERVATIVE POLITICS WEBSITE" all over the place.

Unfortunately for AdSense to work well, you must.

Good luck!

SN

Jenstar




msg:1357584
 4:41 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

slobizman, you should remove your URL, it is against the WebmasterWorld TOS [webmasterworld.com].

Unfortunately, other than loading your site with appropriate keywords (which those advertisers could have bid on anyway), your only other alternative it spend the time and start adding those URLs to your banned list. It will take some time, but others have spent hours doing precisely that, so they won't serve ads that inappropriate to their site for whatever reason, even though they are targeted.

Fairla




msg:1357585
 5:07 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Slobiz, I sympathize -- I have had a similar problem. In my case, I've been getting extremist religious advertising that is likely to offend most visitors to my site. I've also gotten some problematic political ads. This although my site is not about religion or politics.

Since I can only block 200 ads, I can't block everything that is likely to offend visitors. Google needs to give us a way to turn religious/political ads on/off. Best of all would be to permit some type of religious/political ads and turn off others. For instance, I don't mind mild religious things (ads for, say, Christian jewelry or Buddha statues or whatever), but when the ads make extreme statements that will only appeal to a particular group and offend everyone else, it's a problem.

In your case, advertisers will know whether their ads are targetting Democrats or Republicans (or both), and they should be able to flag them that way, giving you the ability to run only what fits your site. It certainly would not be impossible for Google to do this kind of thing. I hope they'll take notice.

europeforvisitors




msg:1357586
 5:18 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

In your case, advertisers will know whether their ads are targetting Democrats or Republicans (or both), and they should be able to flag them that way, giving you the ability to run only what fits your site. It certainly would not be impossible for Google to do this kind of thing. I hope they'll take notice.

I doubt if they'll do that just for the convenience of political or religious sites, but they might do it as part of a larger solution to the problem of irrelevant ads. (Yesterday I was seeing ads for beer-keg equipment and Midwestern tent rentals in an article on Munich's Oktoberfest. If I'd been able to use keywords to tag the article as being about "Oktoberfest," "Munich," "Germany," "German beer," etc., Google might have chosen more appropriate ads instead of making a wild guess based on the presence of the words "kegger" and "tents" in the article.)

Fairla




msg:1357587
 5:27 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Europe, you're right, the problem of "wild guessing" goes beyond offensive ads. Meta tags were invented for this purpose, to tell search engines what our sites are about -- I am perplexed about why AdSense doesn't make use of them.

A "camping" ad should only appear on page that is about camping or a topic complimentary to camping -- not on any page that happens to use the word "camp" once. But I feel confident Google will improve this in time. Letting publishers have input into the ads displayed will only improve the usefulness of these ads for everyone.

martinibuster




msg:1357588
 5:28 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

OR-
If advertisers were able to signify the intended context of their ads, to make context selections the same way we can select languages:

Business sites
Lifestyle sites
humor sites
software download sites
medical sites

The system would be helped along. Let's not forget that having advertisers included in the loop can be beneficial.

Let's not be myopic. It's not just a publisher problem.

europeforvisitors




msg:1357589
 6:04 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Martinibuster:

Categories might help, but I think keywords (or a filter that would make it possible to exclude certain keywords) would be equally useful. I've had pages about Venice, Italy display ads for apartment rentals in Venice, Florida. Being able to specify "Italy" or exclude "Florida" would easily solve that problem.

chiyo




msg:1357590
 6:40 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Wouldn't conservatives want to buy the Clinton book so they can read it and refute it? Seems pretty relevant to the readers of your page to me.

At one stage we were getting ads for mail-order brides on an article about the problems and poverty and negative side about marrying foreign women from poor countries. It didnt seem non-relevant to me, and indeed some may have come to the page who really were interested in these services or were trying to make up their minds.

Personally i find the whole business distasteful but that does not mean we chould ban those ads. If we did that for everything it is a lot of work, and we expect our readers our intelligent enough to make up their own minds after seeing both sides of the story.

slobizman




msg:1357591
 6:45 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Chiyo, I don't think they can stomach that fiction.

slobizman




msg:1357592
 6:46 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

To site owner:

Sorry about my URL in the ad. I was just trying to describe my site to make the problem mor eunderstandable, and forgot about the TOS rule.

slobizman




msg:1357593
 6:47 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Someone mentioned keywords. Is that the priamry way Google decides what the site is aobut, or is it more content-deduced?

martinibuster




msg:1357594
 6:57 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Visit the Applied Semantics web site and download their technology whitepapers to read about CIRCA.

You may also wish to visit the Google AdSense FAQ- there's a whole lot of information there too.

If you're a conservative site, and you've got Hillary Clinton's name all over it, it makes sense that ads for her are going to show up.

Same as if the Democracy Now website were to run adwords on their site, you may wind up seeing Ollie North's Bio being advertised on their site.

You bring up an interesting wrinkle.

slobizman




msg:1357595
 7:20 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Amazon is the vendor who is splashing the Hillary book all over my site. All 4 ads are for the same Hillary book!

I just went in to the Google filter and regrettably put www.amazon.com into it. Ten minutes later, they ads are still showing up. How long does it take? Or is Amazon just a big customer that Google does not block them?

slobizman




msg:1357596
 11:46 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Interesting. I blocked Amazon, and after a couple of hours it took. Now, I only get 1-2 ads--never more.

killroy




msg:1357597
 9:25 am on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

The problem is that it HAS to be on the publisher side. What if the seller of the Hillary book quite deliberately targets democrat keywords to put his book under your nose on purpose?

You could make powerfull statements to teh opposition on adwrods. So te blocking action must happen on the publisher side, and both URLs and keywords either may not be enough.

We might hasve to go as far as havign a special cookie set that gives you extra features in your adsense bar such s "ban this ad" for example, administration right there and then.

SN

Laisha




msg:1357598
 2:16 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm having the same problem exactly.

While we are a conservative site, we do offer a few books from "the other side."

However, I personally would rather not further the profits of some authors. (Not saying Hillary specifically...but not NOT saying it.)

I've been trying to figure out something for such situations. Perhaps a disclaimer explaining that we do not necessarily endorse the ads served by Google?

slobizman




msg:1357599
 2:36 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

It's now been a day since I filtered Amazon.com. At first, my ads were down to 1-2, but since last night I'm now back to four ads which, at least at this point, jibe with the conservative viewpoint of the site.

martinibuster




msg:1357600
 4:45 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

What if the seller of the Hillary book quite deliberately targets democrat keywords to put his book under your nose on purpose?

It's not necessarily that easy. I've targetted an ad for a specific (relevant) location, and it took me a half an hour to find the relevant keyword/creative combination to get in there- an oddball keyword phrase that I wouldn't use otherwise.

But I see your point.

I would prefer to see it from publisher AND the advertiser side.

Fairla




msg:1357601
 5:11 am on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

Killroy, your idea to allow us to just click "ban this ad" is brilliant and would save so many headaches.

At the end of the day, the webmaster knows better than anyone else what's going to interest (or annoy) visitors to that site.

In the meantime, I'm having to do blanket bans on sites like Amazon. It is helping. I'm just worried about running out of filters. (And also worried about the ads I'm not personally seeing which might be offending visitors.)

PolishGuy




msg:1357602
 8:02 am on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)


Killroy, your idea to allow us to just click "ban this ad" is brilliant and would save so many headaches.

it's lame, not brilliant: the servers of google would be more loaded if they would have to check whether web masters are logged in to display "Ban this ad"! of course I don't want it and I don't want that users see this "ban this ad" thing - it should be (if at all) visible only for logged in webmasters.

killroy




msg:1357603
 10:36 am on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

PolishGuy, well that's the entire idea. You click a button in your admin interface, it sets a cookie, and from thenon for that browser it shows the cookie. Time it out in 24hours but refresh it whenever you check your stats.

And to do this for the few 100s of adsense publishers in comparrison to the 100s of millions of other visitors should be bloody peanuts for their servers.

I'm surprised people are always so concerned about google's servers, it's jsut hardware, easy to increase the capacity of.

been there myself... spend a month trying to improve complex code, or spend a few bucks, buy a second server, double all speed and capacity, solve theproblem and get some spare too, all in a weekend.... easy choice, and I think if google have to add 10 or 20 comps for a few $$$ to add a feature, it's a simple choice.

Anyways, was just an idea, no need to get argumentative. ;)

And besides, Google is God appearantly, so no problem ;)

SN

PS: how about a page in the administration, plug in URL of one of your pages, and it shows the top 100 ads that you can then check and ban. rinse and repeat until the page is clean and still shows 4 ads. Again, just an idea, less usefull for huge sites.

RobbieD




msg:1357604
 12:28 pm on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

it's lame, not brilliant:

Are all PolishGuy's this positive and uplifting?

You bring a ray of light to WW ;)

PolishGuy




msg:1357605
 12:47 pm on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)


how about a page in the administration, plug in URL of one of your pages, and it shows the top 100 ads that you can then check and ban.

but your solution does not solve the problem globally, just locally.

we should be able to block keywords (for example I would like to block word "God") from URL and text of AdWords advertisements, not just URLs...


Are all PolishGuy's this positive and uplifting?

no, I am exceptional b~stard.

RobbieD




msg:1357606
 12:50 pm on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

no, I am exceptional b~stard.

lol. Great reply :)

dmorison




msg:1357607
 12:50 pm on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

We all know that the meta keywords tag has been all but depreciated in terms of search engines, but is this also the case with mediapartners-googlebot?

It would make perfect sense to use the keywords meta tag in order to instruct AdSense as to the type of ads they should serve.

PolishGuy




msg:1357608
 3:47 pm on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)


but depreciated in terms of search engines, but is this also the case with mediapartners-googlebot?

According to my experiences with AdSense meta tags are being completely ignored in targetting of banners by AdSense.

On one page I have changed content totally, and Google is ignoring keywords from meta tags and is also not re-spidering it. The AdSense banners on this page previously were also false - totally different than meta tags, but just based on mistakenly picked words from the content.

So advice is simple: put more text on to your pages and try to put maximum text first and only the switch the AdSense banner (because re-spidering can take long long time and you need to get targetting right the first time).

[edited by: PolishGuy at 3:48 pm (utc) on Aug. 10, 2003]

martinibuster




msg:1357609
 3:47 pm on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

We all know that the meta keywords tag has been all but depreciated in terms of search engines, but is this also the case with mediapartners-googlebot?

I thought about that and experimented with a publisher's meta keywords in order to land my client's ad into a specific page, but it didn't seem to work.

What did work is using on page data. Realistically, nobody can give a definitive answer, but after reading Google's AdSense overview, and reading the Applied Semantics whitepapers about their CIRCA technology, I don't think they use it.

So, that's my opinion- it isn't by any means definitive.

The award-winning and proprietary Google search technologies are the foundation for AdSense. We go beyond simple keyword matching to understand the context and content of web pages. Based on an algorithm that includes such factors as keyword analysis, word frequency, font size, and the overall link structure of the web, we know what a page is about, and can precisely match Google ads to each page.

The Linguistic Processing Engine works in conjunction with the Applied Semantics Ontology to understand the individual words and phrases in a unit of content, identify how they are being used, and determine the meaning(s) that best support the context of the content.

[edited by: martinibuster at 3:53 pm (utc) on Aug. 10, 2003]

PolishGuy




msg:1357610
 3:51 pm on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)


What did work is using on page data. Theoretically, nobody can give a definitive answer, but after reading Google's AdSense overview, and reading the Applied Semantics whitepapers about their CIRCA technology, I don't think they use it.

exactly,
and let me put your scientific comments into simple words:
you, publishers, have to produce as much text as possible to get proper targetting. Nothing, neithr tags, nor URLs with keyword, will replace maximum number of text. This is simple rule of thumb for AdSense: if you need good targetting, then place as much text as possible.

cornwall




msg:1357611
 4:07 pm on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>I thought about that and experimented with a publisher's meta keywords in order to land my client's ad into a specific page, but it didn't seem to work

martinibuster

Thats a very valuable little bit of research on meta tags - though I think I would have been surprised if Google suddenly started using them.

On some of my frames pages, Google has struggled to supply spot on targetted ads. These pages have been fully optimised on meta tags and on the image map tags.

Its only by adding text (which I do not really want, or need from the browsers point of view) that one can make the targetted ads appear...

...though not in all cases. EuropeforVisitors has had similar problems on the odd page that is not frames, with ads appearing for the wrong country.

My guess is that both publishers and Google will struggle for some time to get this right, but in time will get there. Certainly as I have improved targetting, CTR has increased. Having got a stable CTR, I am on to experimenting with colours to try to increase it again)

This 35 message thread spans 2 pages: 35 ( [1] 2 > >
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