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Google AdSense Forum

    
Think About Our Customers
We should remember whose money we are receiving!
devlin

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 5:53 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have found this a fascinating forum, with some really insightful comments.

I have also seen a lot of naked greed! OK, we're all excited about this excellent income generation model for content-rich websites. And naturally, most of us would like to optimise our income (I avoided using 'maximise' for reasons given below).

Now, we are the suppliers in the AdSense project; our customers are the advertisers. There have been many posts which have clearly focused on "ME". As someone who has been involved in selling and marketing for more years than I care to remember, I know from bitter experience that one of the quickest ways to lose a sale is to think about what I, the salesperson, want from this sale. The most effective selling techniques focus continually on what the customer wants.

And what do our customers want? Increased sales through genuine prospective customers clicking on an AdSense link on our pages.

So any attempt by us to 'maximise' our AdSense revenue by any little trick our attempt to get around Google's TOS is likely to have an adverse effect on our customers. And what will our customers do? Uncheck the box on their AdWords account that will prevent their ads being displayed on our websites. It's as simple as that (I think - I'm not an AdWords user, yet).

So, what prompted me to make this post? It was a quote from an AdWords user in the LED Digest, a moderated discussion list widely read by savvy marketers and Webmasters. He said:

I know the (AdSense) program is new and Google will try and work the kinks out, but we've shut it down on every site because it *doubled* advertising costs and generated *no sales*.

This is quite scary. AdSense is now entering its third month - long enough for advertisers - our customers - to start appraising it effectiveness in terms of conversions to orders.

There has already been a thread on this forum commenting on a fall in CPC rates ( [webmasterworld.com...] ). It could be that the high paying advertisers - those savvy enough to monitor their sales conversion rates - have started to pull out.

The worst thing that any of us could do is to alienate more of our customers by attempts to 'maximise' our revenue.

Let's think of the long term. We need this project to succeed in the long term. That's the difference between 'optimising' and 'maximising'; long-term income vs. short-term income.

Sorry about this long post, but I think we should all be concerned about the long-term.

D

 

cornwall

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 6:10 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Devlin

I, as you, am concerned about the long term too ;)

You do have to be quite careful about reading perhaps too much into what posters put either here or in the AdWords forum..

Certainly I have not seen any drop off in my CPC or CPM, quite the contrary, working on better targeting of sites has enabled me to increase both these figures over the last few weeks. My (good content travel) sites are a reasonably high volume, and deliver figures that are large enough to be statistically valid.

On the other side, you have to be careful in reading what
"advertisers" say. Are they representitive of advertisers in the long term? And do they currently represent a large enough percentage of advertising revenue to be considered to be a valid sample of the whole market?

Personally I believe that Adsense will change the whole way that advertising is done, nobody really knows, but Google think it is worth doing to test the market.

Whilst the "boilerplate" guys will be around, it is a much smaller sample to "police" for Google than the total web. In other words they do not have to rely just on their algo to deliver decent serps, they can monitor the more limited number of content suppliers and exclude the ones they do not like. I know they claim 100,000 advertisers - but I have seen no claim for number of content providers

By simply raising the minimum dollar payout, they can control the number of sites they have to police.

valortrade

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 6:30 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

On the other side, you have to be careful in reading what
"advertisers" say. Are they representitive of advertisers in the long term? And do they currently represent a large enough percentage of advertising revenue to be considered to be a valid sample of the whole market?

If it would not even start with "short term", how could you get the "long term"? If you would not consider the individual advertiser, how could you think about others? Just nonsense to me!

You do have to be quite careful about reading perhaps too much into what posters put either here or in the AdWords forum..

I would definitely pay much more attentions to what the advertisers said. They are our "indirect" customers!

On the other hand, I have less interest in "double CTR", ...

By simply raising the minimum dollar payout, they can control the number of sites they have to police.

I just do not think Google would have the same feeling/plan as yours. It would keep lots of publishers (including me) happy if Google could even keep the current payout rate in the long run! Keep in mind, advertisers are savvy and they know the rule of ROI well and would be sensible to the results!

ap_Rhys

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 6:36 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

So, what prompted me to make this post? It was a quote from an AdWords user in the LED Digest, a moderated discussion list widely read by savvy marketers and Webmasters.

Really.

Spam, I think.

devlin

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 7:57 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

ap_Rhys ...
Spam, I think.

I think not. We can't put URLs in here, but if you Google "LED Digest", select the second search result "Archives of LED@LED-DIGEST.COM.", then, on the archives page, click on "LED Digest 1626: What about AdSense Advertisers?", you can read the full post for yourself.

OK, it's just one guy posting, and maybe not representative of all AdWords advertisers. But, if you look at the archives of LED Digest, you'll see that there's other advertisers also sounding off.

We can't ignore these guys.

cornwall ...
By simply raising the minimum dollar payout, they can control the number of sites they have to police.

I think that might have to be an option for Google. I for one would not be unhappy with a significant increase in the minimum payout - say $500 or $1,000. After all, being a Brit, my bank charges me UKP5 for every US cheque (that's 'check' for you guys on the other side of the puddle :-) ) that I present. And no, I'm not into overseas income volumes that would justify setting up offshore banking arrangements, as another thread has suggested!

I know that there are some AdWords advertisers reading this forum. Feedback from you guys would be insightful.

D

PolishGuy



 
Msg#: 287 posted 8:19 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

It could be that the high paying advertisers - those savvy enough to monitor their sales conversion rates - have started to pull out.

I wish AdWords users could be more selective than just check box "use add AdSense or not"... they should monitor sales conversion rates in particular content sites, and not in a whole AdSense! Google should allow them to see results from specific content web sites!

Because otherwise we, content websites providers, really cannot do anything to prevent this "unchecking of AdSense checkbox" from happening!

PolishGuy



 
Msg#: 287 posted 8:29 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I for one would not be unhappy with a significant increase in the minimum payout - say $500 or $1,000.

you are reading my mind!

I would like to have the limit increased or at least to give us possibility to withhold "check sending" until:

- certain amount of money (say 1914 dollars) is reached.

- until AdSense user says in the control panel "pay out now!"...

this $100 is too low, much too low..

loanuniverse

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 8:35 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hmmm, IMHO my customer is google not the advertisers. I am not foolish enough not to understand that the ultimate decision of the advertisers will not dictate the price of the clicks, but there are so many other factors that need to be taken into account.

1- No easy way to differentiate the clicks from adwords that got you the sale.

2- The competitive nature of advertisers and the feeling that you need to be "there" since your competitor is "there" already.

3- The massive influence of Google.

4- The fact that some of the people caught in the fraud net were probably cheating {I am not saying the people that claimed that here were cheating, but you got to be naive not to think someone, somewhere wasn't}

5- You got forces at work here that determine price and participation and the fact that there are desilutioned advertisers is just one of them. You got to account for new advertisers too and the possibility of a competing network coming out soon.

Well enough for now...

certain amount of money (say 1914 dollars) is reached

Wouldn't it be upsetting if you were about to reach that amount four months later and your account got suspended? I mean you got a warning already so this could happen....

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 287 posted 9:14 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

devlin wrote:

Now, we are the suppliers in the AdSense project; our customers are the advertisers.

Our customers are our readers. As long as we serve our readers well, we'll be providing the quality editorial environment that's good for advertisers.

So any attempt by us to 'maximise' our AdSense revenue by any little trick our attempt to get around Google's TOS is likely to have an adverse effect on our customers. And what will our customers do? Uncheck the box on their AdWords account that will prevent their ads being displayed on our websites.

That's a real concern, and Google may come to regret both its loose enrollment standards and its willingness to permit AdSense code on any of a publisher's sites.

cornwall wrote:

Personally I believe that Adsense will change the whole way that advertising is done, nobody really knows, but Google think it is worth doing to test the market.

I agree. AdSense is far more revolutionary than, say, Sprinks or Overture Content Match, because it leverages the "niche-riche" nature of the Web to a degree that's impossible on large general-interest "corporate partner" sites like MSNBC and CNN.

devlin wrote:

There has already been a thread on this forum commenting on a fall in CPC rates....It could be that the high paying advertisers - those savvy enough to monitor their sales conversion rates - have started to pull out.

Advertisers who frequent Webmaster World are more likely to be affiliate-site owners than advertisers who aren't WW regulars. For the affiliate-site owner, success is measured by a mathematical formula involving CPC, conversion rates, and commissions. If the cost of clicks is more than the commissions generated, the affiliate will look for another way to generate traffic. So it's inevitable that many affiliate sites will opt out of "content ads" as competition from other advertisers puts upward pressure on CPC rates. These affiliate advertisers will complain on Webmaster World that content ads have a low ROI, and they'll be right: but only from their limited perspective.

The situation is different for the non-affiliate advertisers who, by and large, don't frequent sites like Webmaster World. Those advertisers are more likely to be interested in the cost per lead than in the conversion rate. A company that's been selling barge cruises, home winemaking equipment, garden tools, or travel clothing through ads in the back of THE NEW YORKER is likely to be overjoyed by the low cost of leads from targeted text ads on special-interest content sites. Similarly, a mail-order vendor that currently obtains customers by mailing expensive catalogs to names on rented mailing lists may find that it's cheaper (with a higher ROI) to run "content ads" that drive traffic to its Web site. Such advertisers are likely to drive up the CPC for desirable keywords, which is bad for low-margin advertisers (such as affiliate sites) but good for publishers and for advertisers who are used to paying even higher rates for offline leads.

itisgene

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 11:38 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have an adsense account and adwords account.
I also manage a fairly large adwords account for our company. I opted out from content ads from the beginning because there was no way to tell the difference between search traffic and content ads traffic for each keyword.

We calculate ROI for each keyword.
Since content ads do not have keyword specific stats, I cannot calculate ROI for each keyword.

Google Rep said there is no way to differentiate them in the near future. He also said it didn't reach the mass they can speak of, yet.

I decided to wait until Google provides a way to track the traffic for each keyword.

As you may know from adwords interface, the report for content ads is SIMPLER than adsense report.

danny

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 12:24 am on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

Our customers are our readers.

I'm with EFV on this one. I was writing before the Web existed, let alone Google. And the primary goal of my web site is to make it as easy as possible for people to find and read what I write. AdSense is just a nice extra.

buckworks

WebmasterWorld Administrator buckworks us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 12:57 am on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

<puts on Adwords user's hat>

I wish it were possible to enter separate bids on content ads and regular Adwords ads. If ROI could be tracked separately then advertisers could bid according to what the ads were worth to them, and market forces would sort things out.

ahsanshami

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 2:16 am on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well, I suppose the advertiser could opt out of being diplayed as part of AdSense on one account and then open a second account and opt in to Adsense, but opt out of the search traffic ads.

That'll split the two types right down the middle and make tracking pretty easy for those interested in the difference.

Having said that, I'm not sure if an advertiser can opt out of the search traffic ads. Anyone know?

RobbieD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 287 posted 2:22 am on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

Having said that, I'm not sure if an advertiser can opt out of the search traffic ads. Anyone know?

They can opt out of the Search Partners not Google itself.

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