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This 57 message thread spans 2 pages: 57 ( [1] 2 > >     
Is AdSense gone crazy?
Noel

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 8:46 pm on Jun 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

This month I'm getting ridicules (and I mean REDICULES) high pay (till now) per click / day.

The clicks and hit's I'm geting are about the same as what I normaly get per day. The ads I get also look the same, and I did not change the layout and / or any text on the site(s).

Am I the only one here who is having this (nice) problem?

Noel

 

markis00

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 9:06 pm on Jun 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Some of my CTRs have had a very high PPC

others have had very low.

You're probably in a high CPC industry; good job.

shortz

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 9:12 pm on Jun 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Had the same thing for a time last month. Dried up as fast as it cropped up. Better hope that your clicks turn into conversions for the adverts or likely, it'll do the same.

Actually, I'm not sure what went with the good high payers... I dont' see a batch of them that I assumed were the goodies. I figured they ran out of budget or.. not converting enough. Hard to say. Would love to see it back tho! Same CTR, but much higher EPC.

Shortz

mquarles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 11:41 am on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

The swing has gone crazy for me. Record high earnings Wed followed by ridiculously low (7% of Wednesday) earnings on Friday. I've never seen swings like these on my pages.

MQ

asinah

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 11:47 am on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Nope, for me it has been going up for the past 10 days and yesterday was our highest earnings for a Friday. All ads have been well targetted for the past 9 days and we have seen 2digit CTR's for some of our channels.

trillianjedi

WebmasterWorld Senior Member trillianjedi us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 1:43 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yes, I noticed this on the site we have adsense on. Record takings followed by a big drop.

Impossible to say what it really is, but we have seen it before.

The best policy with AdSense is to look at your overal monthly averages - as long as the general trend is upwards, then don't worry about it. It blips like crazy.

TJ

markis00

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 4:17 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Also consider the fact that CPC differs greatly depending on what relevance your site is based upon. The highest CPC being the drug industry

Noel

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 4:29 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yes, I noticed this on the site we have adsense on. Record takings followed by a big drop.
Impossible to say what it really is, but we have seen it before.

The best policy with AdSense is to look at your overal monthly averages - as long as the general trend is upwards, then don't worry about it. It blips like crazy.

TJ

Well I'm now (5 days in the month) allready at my monthly averages! I've been with AdSense sinds September!

Today was again a ridicules day!

Noel

globay

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 4:40 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yesterday, I had my lowest AdSense earnings since july, only 40% of what I usually earn per day, while impressions were just slightly lower. My earnings come from several sites with different topics, and many advertisers, thus one advertiser dropping his campain can not be the reason of this drop. If this will not change until tomorrow, I will mail Google about it.

blaze

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 4:44 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Just in case you guys missed it the first time:


Had the same thing for a time last month. Dried up as fast as it cropped up. Better hope that your clicks turn into conversions for the adverts or likely, it'll do the same.
Actually, I'm not sure what went with the good high payers... I dont' see a batch of them that I assumed were the goodies. I figured they ran out of budget or.. not converting enough. Hard to say. Would love to see it back tho! Same CTR, but much higher EPC.

Shortz

This is probably exactly how AdSense is working right now.

You probably sent some traffic which *converted* so they increased your EPC.

If you send some *low* converting traffic, they will *lower* your EPC.

This is why it fluctuates, at least in part.

In affect, Google has pretty much implemented Pay Per Aquisition (PPA) versus Pay Per Click (PPC)

wonderboy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 4:48 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

There are still base levels for certain topics though, the higher paying areas will always pay out a minimum that would be seen as a maximum for another area.
W.

blaze

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 4:50 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm not sure that is compatible with Google's smart pricing, at least not how they described it.

https://adwords.google.com/select/news/sa_mar04.html


How smart pricing works
We are constantly analyzing data across our network, and if our data shows that a click is less likely to turn into business results (e.g. online sale, registration, phone call, newsletter sign-up), we may reduce the price you pay for that click. You may notice a reduction in the cost of clicks from content sites.

In order to maintain smart prices, if you're not converting then they're either going to have to ban your site, invalidate your clicks, or drop your EPC.

dhatz

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 5:51 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

This is probably exactly how AdSense is working right now.

You probably sent some traffic which *converted* so they increased your EPC.

If you send some *low* converting traffic, they will *lower* your EPC.

This is why it fluctuates, at least in part.

In affect, Google has pretty much implemented Pay Per Aquisition (PPA) versus Pay Per Click (PPC)

In my case I'm just beating a dead horse, but I guess it's not easy to just forget about it and move on, as I spent many hours on this. I guess it's throwing good money after bad, but...

I'd appreciate people's feedback. Btw, I've never been able to get a non-canned answer from Google. Always very polite, very nice, but only canned answers (either for tech matters e.g. the bug with non-Latin charset adsense ads on content-sites, to this one).

So let's think about EPC.

An indirect PPA is fine for B2C stuff. OK, so 1 out of 50 visitor sent via Adwords, buys ie completes a transaction on the e-commerce site's cart. Fine, the publisher's site gets some bonus, for sending "quality leads".

But what about B2B?

How would one measure conversions on a B2B site? I would say, pages-per-visitor and time-spent-per-visitor, right?

I've visited a sample of about 40 sites of advertisers who got clicked via my pages, and I can't find the conversion code anywhere.

I ran an Adsense monitor script, so I look back at the clicks on my test site, to advertisers: some Adwords advertisers I sent clicks to are small manufacturers and are some big companies, like Bayer pharma or Shell (oil, you know). On subjects like "oil refinery performance tuning". I do some WHOIS investigation of clicker's IP, and sometimes come up in intranets of large companies in the same industry.

Yet, all it ever got was rock-bottom EPC.

And btw I'm talking about pretty good (imo) content, not "phony directory" kind of stuff, DMOZ ripoffs etc etc. Data was compiled & verified independantly, 2200 pages, 400 of them translated in 5 languages (by pro translators).

Any suggestions?

blaze

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 6:10 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Sounds like you are pretty perceptive. Have you considered using your obvious understanding and talents in something more suitable like affiliate marketing?

AdSense is really meant more for people who don't understand things like "conversion code" and "pages per visitor".

They just write content and put this thing on their website and make money. Unless your content really needs AdSense in order to work, I think you may want to use your abilities more profitably..

As for the thing you asked about, that could very well indeed result in low EPC simply because very poor tracking is in place.

SlowMove

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 6:21 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

You probably sent some traffic which *converted* so they increased your EPC.

I have a dumb question. How does Google know what converted?

fezziwig

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 6:37 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have a dumb question. How does Google know what converted?

Perhaps they don't. Perhaps it's all part of their smoke and mirrors routine.

Google allows AdWords advertisers to place some code on their "success" page (the page that would indicate that the visitor has bought or signed up for something).

Placement of that code is arbitrary.

Perhaps Google is using this nebulous measure as a way to lower the EPC of its small to mid size AdSense publishers to increase Google's profits and to fund the placement of AdSense on low converting high traffic publishers?

blaze

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 6:38 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

A percentage of AdWords customers track conversions. What this percentage is exactly is unclear. Presumably with the advent of smart pricing more adwords customers are using tracking more in order to get better prices.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 7:08 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

AdSense is really meant more for people who don't understand things like "conversion code" and "pages per visitor"

No, AdSense is meant for "web publishers who want to make more revenue from advertising on their site while maintaining editorial quality." (Those are Google's own words.) Whether those publishers understand things like "conversion code" or "pages per visitor" is irrelevant.

For publishers who do understand things like "conversion code" and "pages per visitor," the real strength of AdSense is its ability to generate incremental income from existing revenue-producing pages and new income from specialized subtopics that don't have enough traffic to justify affiliate partnerships or direct ad sales.

BTW, it's worth noting that Google uses the words "publisher" and "editorial" in the opening statement of its pitch for AdSense. Such language goes a long way toward explaining why Google doesn't feel the need to provide the kind of detailed page-level statistics that some Webmaster World members regard as their due. Publishers normally don't create content to attract specific ads; they create content for their readers and use that content to attract ads that fit their subject matter and demographics.

blaze

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 7:26 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Dangerous advice which really short changes a lot of people here.

To simply give up such a huge percentage of the juice to Google for "editorial quality" is exactly what Google wants you to think.

You're basically saying - "don't bother trying to make more money .. just give it all away to Google!"

There are certain circumstances, like big newspapers, where it makes sense or when you don't have the time or inclination to be more involved in your own marketing. However, to say that AdSense makes more financial sense than going straight to the Advertiser is like saying it makes more financial sense to buy from a posh electronic retailer on Robson Street than it does from a warehouse directly.

If you don't know better or don't have the time - pay the finders fee but don't go around telling other people that it's the smart way to go.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 7:40 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

However, to say that AdSense makes more financial sense than going straight to the Advertiser is like saying it makes more financial sense to buy from a posh electronic retailer on Robson Street than it does from a warehouse directly.

No, because AdSense lets you monetize content that you wouldn't be able to monetize on your own. Even on a large special-interest site, there may be many subtopic pages that don't generate enough traffic to justify direct ad sales.

Also, you're attacking a straw man when you suggest that publishers have to choose between AdSense and other revenue streams. AdSense is non-exclusive, and it works well on sites that use direct ad sales or affiliate links. It's an "add on," not an "instead of."

blaze

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 7:55 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)


No, because AdSense lets you monetize content that you wouldn't be able to monetize on your own. Even on a large special-interest site, there may be many subtopic pages that don't generate enough traffic to justify direct ad sales.

You're basically saying that in certain cases Google's AI is better than you because a) it has access to all those adwords and b) it's ALGO is faster/smarter than you might be.

What you are neglecting to mention that Google takes up a very large percentage of the action in order for you to use their AI. So while I grant that you are right in certain circumstances the AI is *smarter*, I think there are very few and very rare occasions when it that much smarter and efficient that it warrants the big fee that they charge you.

Here's an example: I pay my affiliates the same thing it costs me on Google to aquire a customer. AdSense advertisers advertising my AdWords products are only getting ~40% of what they could be getting if they went to me directly.

I personally don't think it would be that hard to gather dozens of relevant affiliate links, put them in a mysql database, and feed them out on to your pages in a way that meshes well with your content.

Kind of like AdSense but using your own grey matter.


Also, you're attacking a straw man when you suggest that publishers have to choose between AdSense and other revenue streams. AdSense is non-exclusive, and it works well on sites that use direct ad sales or affiliate links.
It's
an "add on," not an "instead of."

This is an easy one. I didn't say this (so, not a straw man), but I suppose I am assuming it as a basic law: there is only so much room on any web page for Ads.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 8:12 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

You seem to be assuming that there's an affiliate program for every subtopic, or that it's practical (and cost-effective) to sell ads for subtopic pages that may receive limited traffic.

richmondsteve

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 8:39 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm with EFV - depending on a page's content and how often it's viewed it may be time and/or cost prohibitive to locate ways to monetize the page and implement. And there might not even be highly relevant options available for monetizing in the first place. AdSense opens doors in a lot of cases that wouldn't otherwise be available, requires little time to implement and manage and does the dirty work for the publisher.

dhatz

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 9:01 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

They just write content and put this thing on their website and make money. Unless your content really needs AdSense in order to work, I think you may want to use your abilities more profitably..

blaze, for this particular type of content I was referring to, Adsense was indeed a natural fit.

I'll take another look at it after summer. It's a rapid changing environment. As I said, the number of new advertisers I noticed has multiplied 5x since 10-April.

blaze

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 11:37 pm on Jun 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Another reason why AdSense could be an issue is that other search engines may naturally penalise you.

Why would they want to send traffic to websites which puts money in the pocket of their biggest competitor?

That all said, pretty much anytime someone asks me what to put on their website, I always do recommend AdSense.

It's a good place to start but once you become more sophisticated it's a mistake not to consider your options carefully.

blaze

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 12:04 am on Jun 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Another thing to keep in mind that sometimes Google is at odds with their publishers. They do not always want to get you the highest paying advertiser on your website.

Sometimes, they just want to get the highest converting affiliate on your website. They have to make sure they keep their AdWords customers happy (after all, that's where all the money is coming from..)

Powdork

WebmasterWorld Senior Member powdork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 2:04 am on Jun 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

It also depends on other factors, like money. Mid april my clicks were worth over a dollar each. Today they are worth about sixteen cents. Mid April they blew affiliate advertising out of the water. Today I'm spending a lot of time on linkshare. Now it's time to go visit cj while I wait for quigo to call.

fezziwig

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 3:21 am on Jun 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

It also depends on other factors, like money. Mid april my clicks were worth over a dollar each. Today they are worth about sixteen cents. Mid April they blew affiliate advertising out of the water. Today I'm spending a lot of time on linkshare. Now it's time to go visit cj while I wait for quigo to call.

This is a typical example of how Google might cook the books, er, manipulate the numbers to best suit their financial needs, as it approaches IPO time. Need more profits? Squeeze the little guy!

Here's where this falls apart:

Many AdWords clicks do not lead to results-oriented pages. Google is penalizing the small publisher for the ineptitude of its advertisers. Google's grand generalizations of conversion rates can be thrown out when poor quality landing pages come into play.

Google stands to loose a huge amount of revenue the moment that Yahoo/Overture launches their AdSense competitor.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 6:03 am on Jun 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

[quote]Google stands to loose a huge amount of revenue the moment that Yahoo/Overture launches their AdSense competitor.[quote]

Maybe, but only if Yahoo/Overture's is better--and is there any reason to assume that will be the case?

Powdork

WebmasterWorld Senior Member powdork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2718 posted 6:21 am on Jun 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

It doesn't have to be better, it just has to be close. They have the advertiser base as well as huge userbase, just like Google. I'm not saying they would topple Google, but it would take a chunk of their publisher base away.
Come on now. If they offered something, you'd try it on a couple pages to see what happened, wouldn't you? You'd probably find some niche markets where it worked better just because of one or two superior advertisers.

I think at a minimum, some serious competition with the ease of sign up that Google has would minimize the huge fluctuations in EPC. It probably wouldn't be long before someone came up with a script that automatically switched from one to the other given a certain % drop. Most would just Edit - Find - Replace - Upload

This 57 message thread spans 2 pages: 57 ( [1] 2 > >
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