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Just wondering what's everyone effective CPM is...
irock




msg:1454821
 10:49 pm on May 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

Has anyone started a similar thread? If so, pls point me to it.

I have a pure content site on PC/Mac hardware, and I get around $9.5 effective CPM for first 8 days of May. My April average was $8.5 CPM. Comparatively, my TribalFusion yields effective CPM of $1.6 (net). So, for me, AdSense makes sense.

This number takes my page impressions and revenue into account. I think evaluating Adsense with effective CPM would be better since CTR, CPC aren't useful in telling the whole story. Only comparing effective CPM with your other programs will tell whether or not you should continue to run AdSense.

 

disgust




msg:1454822
 8:40 am on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

$0.17 CPM for me.

I've never tried anything other than google, but I'm actually surprised I'm making even this much.

dhatz




msg:1454823
 2:10 pm on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

disgust, are you talking about CPM or CPC?

Previous discussions indicated some people have a PER-CLICK earnings about the same as the CPM quoted by irock.

disgust




msg:1454824
 6:55 pm on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

$0.17

would be my [total earnings] divided by my [impressions / 1000]

disgust




msg:1454825
 8:32 pm on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

if I was making 8.00~ per thousand impressions, I'd be making close to 400$ a day, which doesn't seem right at all.

we've never made more than 10$ a day (average) with any advertising service, adsense included.

Powdork




msg:1454826
 9:06 pm on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

You guys may want to mosey on over to the adsense tos for a gander at article 7 where you agreed not to release "click-through rates or other statistics relating to Site performance in the Program provided to You by Google"

Sunflux




msg:1454827
 9:25 pm on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think this should turn into a "if I were..." thread. :-)

If I were making $8 per thousand on the impressions I give Google... I'd be a very happy fellow indeed *and* they'd probably hand deliver my checks.

mquarles




msg:1454828
 10:09 pm on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Am I the only one who thinks these are ridiculously low? For eCommerce sites we typically have sales of at least $2,000 per thousand visitors ($2,000 CPM) with at least 35% margins, and for any site that is even remotely targeted I want CPM of $1,000.

Makes me think pure content and selling advertising of any kind is not a very profitable proposition. How can anyone afford to get traffic with a visitor value of less than a penny? You'd have to have a million visitors a month to even come close to making a living.

MQ

level80




msg:1454829
 10:31 pm on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Am I the only one who thinks these are ridiculously low? For eCommerce sites we typically have sales of at least $2,000 per thousand visitors ($2,000 CPM) with at least 35% margins, and for any site that is even remotely targeted I want CPM of $1,000.

Makes me think pure content and selling advertising of any kind is not a very profitable proposition. How can anyone afford to get traffic with a visitor value of less than a penny? You'd have to have a million visitors a month to even come close to making a living.

MQ

Most sites aren't ecommerce sites. Of course ecommerce sites make more money - but they get targeted visitors. I think if you tried to get $1,000 CPM for advertising on a content site you would find it very, very difficult.

If you regularly get high traffic to a content site, then selling advertising is worth it to cover the hosting/ domain costs and pay you something as well. To most people running websites isn't a living - it's more of a hobby....

If you want to make a living from it - then sell the advertising yourself, run your own ecommerce site, or do web design for people....

However remember that what "isn't close to making a living" - may be a lot of money to foreigners outside the US (when the Adsense dollars are converted into local currency).

irock




msg:1454830
 10:39 pm on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

mquarles,

First of all, I think we have different game rules. Content sites are easier to start than those that are selling their own stuff, because of all the overhead & start up cost.

Second of all, content sites have a much easier way to generate traffic than e-commerce sites. But given your high sales value, I can see you can generate decent traffic via CPC ads.

Thirdly, ecommerce sites dont' necessarily mean more profitable since there are other risks for merchants.

I mean, if you got all the numbers figured out, selling your own stuff is much more secure and lucrative. Content sites need to do so much more like different partnerships to get decent income. So, we do our own number games to figure out what works for us.

The $8.5 CPM I got... is coming from AdSense. I have other partnerships that give me more than that for the same amount of traffic.

You'd have to have a million visitors a month to even come close to making a living.

Depends your definition of making a living. If I have a million visitors, I think my revenue would be at 10 times than what I get right now. And that's really good for me. I mean if you were in India, you could become a king... or if you live in Tokyo, good luck man... their cost of living is sky high there.

loanuniverse




msg:1454831
 10:42 pm on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I do not find those numbers low. Even if I was making a penny per visitor and had 1 million visitors, I would still be happy. Assuming all I had to worry about was 5 servers a month at about $200 each, I would have $1,000 in expenses { I know is a big assumption, but work with me }. Then, I will have this much revenue:

1,000,000 X $.01 = $10,000

I would be happy makin $9,000 net a month. It is more than what my real job pays me :)

FromRocky




msg:1454832
 10:59 pm on May 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

For my content/advert selling site, total EPM is about $75 which includes AdSense and affilliates earnings. It is against the TOS to give the AdSense EPM alone.

dhatz




msg:1454833
 11:42 am on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you regularly get high traffic to a content site, then selling advertising is worth it to cover the hosting/ domain costs and pay you something as well. To most people running websites isn't a living - it's more of a hobby....

So it seems, a hobby. Nothing wrong with that ofcourse and Adsense will cover hosting costs for most.

Or maybe one can afford to run a site at 1c/visitor, if he happens to live in a very low-cost country. Some will say "if i had a million visitors", yeah right ;-) It's not that simple. And a million visitors would probably not be a "focused audience".

Anyway, I'll be pausing Adsense for the moment. I would like to ask G to offer to content-sites the ability to specify a minimum EPC, so as to better reflect the supply-demand equation.

Macro




msg:1454834
 12:03 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

You guys may want to mosey on over to the adsense tos for a gander at article 7 where you agreed not to release "click-through rates or other statistics relating to Site performance in the Program provided to You by Google"

<sigh> Discussions in violations of Adsense TOS keep coming up with tiresome frequency :(

It seems it's not a matter of what people agreed to... but what they can get away with under the cloak of annonymity :(

europeforvisitors




msg:1454835
 12:45 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Am I the only one who thinks these are ridiculously low? For eCommerce sites we typically have sales of at least $2,000 per thousand visitors ($2,000 CPM) with at least 35% margins, and for any site that is even remotely targeted I want CPM of $1,000.

Some of the CPMs that have been quoted are extremely low, but why do you assume that such minuscule CPMs are universal?

BTW, comparing e-commerce sales to advertising revenues is like comparing apples and oranges. I don't think you'll find that THE NEW YORK TIMES, CONDE NAST TRAVELER, or SURVIVOR are earning CPMs of $2,000, and they're doing okay. :-)

Makes me think pure content and selling advertising of any kind is not a very profitable proposition.

If that were true, magazines, newspapers, TV networks, and radio stations wouldn't exist.

Advertising-supported content sites can be extremely profitable.

How can anyone afford to get traffic with a visitor value of less than a penny? You'd have to have a million visitors a month to even come close to making a living.

Not all content formats, topics, and sites are as profitable as others. A pirate radio station run out of somebody's attic may not make any profit, and a zine distributed in the local coffee house may not be very profitable, either. But that doesn't mean some people aren't making a good living from radio broadcasting or magazine publishing.

danny




msg:1454836
 2:50 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

irock, my AdSense CPM is similar to your TribalFusion one. But I have the ads right at the bottom on most of my pages, which I know will produce a lower CTR than having them at the top.

Powdork




msg:1454837
 5:18 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

For eCommerce sites we typically have sales of at least $2,000 per thousand visitors ($2,000 CPM)
For Adsense that would mean $2/click and a 100% CTR.
Well, I guess its something to strive for.

loanuniverse




msg:1454838
 5:29 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have to wonder if that 35% is gross margin or net profit margin. Are you factoring in the "traffic acquisition" costs?

I would venture to say that there is no topic <Not even the famous lawsuit happy disease> that would bring $2,000 ECPM or even $1,000 ECPM.

I can see where there would be a few hovering around $100, but they would be very very few.

john_k




msg:1454839
 5:29 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

we typically have sales of at least $2,000 per thousand visitors

That doesn't really mean much other than as an indicator of your cash flow. As has been said, you are comparing apples and oranges. ROI is a more valid comparison. Content sites don't generally carry large inventories, don't need storage, no freight charges, no carrying charges on accounts, very few returns, no mark-downs for obsolete inventory, etc. The ramp up is quicker and the investment (usually) lower, so the risk is smaller.

Never_again




msg:1454840
 5:34 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

You guys may want to mosey on over to the adsense tos for a gander at article 7 where you agreed not to release "click-through rates or other statistics relating to Site performance in the Program provided to You by Google"

<sigh> Discussions in violations of Adsense TOS keep coming up with tiresome frequency :(

It seems it's not a matter of what people agreed to... but what they can get away with under the cloak of annonymity :(

CPM is not a statistic "provided to You by Google" and therefore not covered by the TOS -- IMHO. Still, I tend to take the more conservative approach of not saying much about specific statistics so I don't risk getting the "you're outta here" email from Google because I may have crossed the line.

dhatz




msg:1454841
 5:45 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

He was talking about SALES of $2/visitor, not GROSS EARNINGs. In his case he'd earn 70c/visitor.

Others (in the aff forum) have commented that earnings/visitor of a Website are between 2c and 20c.

markus007




msg:1454842
 8:14 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

even if he gets 70 cents a visitors, he still has to pay for inventory space, employees, office space, phones etc etc etc. As a content site i can get up and walk away today and still be earning more every month then i could if i worked a couple of 8 hour a day jobs.

mquarles




msg:1454843
 6:35 pm on May 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Others (in the aff forum) have commented that earnings/visitor of a Website are between 2c and 20c.

That seems reasonable as averages for me, which is why I am surprised to see nobody reporting more than 1c from their content sites running AdSense.

MQ

loanuniverse




msg:1454844
 6:41 pm on May 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

...which is why I am surprised to see nobody reporting more than 1c from their content sites running AdSense..
People are using CPM, which is impressions instead of visitors. Assuming 4 pagevies per visitor, you have to multiply everyone's CPM by 4 to get the amount of money per visitor.

<I might be completely wrong about this>

Powdork




msg:1454845
 10:38 pm on May 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Assuming 4 pagevies per visitor, you have to multiply everyone's CPM by 4 to get the amount of money per visitor.
And with channels I discovered pages that got no clicks after thousands of visits. So now my adsense impressions completely different from my actual # visitors.
fasteddie uk2001




msg:1454846
 11:47 pm on May 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Across our content sites we make approx 0.08 per visit. This is from a mixture of banners, adsense and ppc search results.

f

vredungmand




msg:1454847
 4:20 pm on May 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

fasteddie: that is a CPM at 35 USD assuming 4 impressions pr. visitor.

What services are you using besides AdSense? What is the topic of your content site?

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