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Google AdSense Forum

This 533 message thread spans 18 pages: < < 533 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... 18 > >     
Major changes to AdSense
Pricing structure and ad relevance
markus007




msg:1415698
 8:04 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Unless adsense is sending out a april fools joke, what do people think of the changes? Every site has a unique pricing model?

For example, a click on an ad for digital cameras on a web page about photography tips may be worth less than a click on the same ad appearing next to a review of digital cameras.

[edited by: markus007 at 8:08 pm (utc) on April 1, 2004]

 

europeforvisitors




msg:1415758
 11:56 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

EFV you don't seem to be making sense. Of course the payment structure has changed.

Mario, I'm not talking about payment, I'm talking about payout, which is how Google splits incoming revenues with the publisher.

Incoming revenues may be affected for better or worse by the new variable ad rates, but that's a different kettle of fish from changing the payout formula.

loanuniverse




msg:1415759
 12:05 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the info ASA

The value is calculated based on a large number of factors, and is constantly updated as information is fed back into the system.

I hope that this is a work in progress, if it went into effect today then my EPC for today is about 50% that of my last months average.

I have to be honest and say that you google guys must be working with a lot more data that I could possibly imagine, but I hope that the calculations that you alluded to:

the pricing for a particular ad will take into account the keywords/concepts on the page that triggered the ad, the context of those keywords/concepts on the page, and the system's calculation of the value of that combination.

Are well supported. I just can't imagine how one single formula could apply to all possible topics......

europeforvisitors




msg:1415760
 12:11 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

AdSenseAdvisor wrote:

In the end, as many of you have pointed out, we expect it to drive growth in the advertiser base for content sites, which can only be a good thing :)

I think that may be true, and it shows that Google is concerned about delivering quality leads, not just raw clicks. That should be very reassuring to advertisers who are afraid of having their ad budgets sucked up by clicks from parked domains or quickie made-for-AdSense sites.

I also believe some members are taking the photography example too literally. The pricing algorithm is obviously a lot more complex than "if 'tips' = cheap" and "if 'review' = expensive". I'm a little skeptical about the idea of using an algorithm to judge click quality, but let's face it: Google prefers algorithms to human judgment.

The numbers will tell the story. I'm sure we'll all be watching closely. :-)

loanuniverse




msg:1415761
 12:21 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I also believe some members are taking the photography example too literally. The pricing algorithm is obviously a lot more complex than "if 'tips' = cheap" and "if 'review' = expensive". I'm a little skeptical about the idea of using an algorithm to judge click quality, but let's face it: Google prefers algorithms to human judgment.

I agree. I think ASA just gave us a hint with the following:
the pricing for a particular ad will take into account the keywords/concepts on the page that triggered the ad, the context of those keywords/concepts on the page, and the system's calculation of the value of that combination.

The triggering of a particular ad might not be because of the presence of a single keyword, but the use of this word and others in the page. Now the same way that the ad is triggered will be affecting the amount that is charged to the advertiser. I think that depending on the ad that was triggered there will be words or concepts that will decrease the pricing as well as words/concepts that will increase the pricing.

Lets not even get into modifiers such as having the word “free” before “widget”. It could be that this layout might affect your EPC more than having the word “free” later in the sentence.

Arghhh…. Enough rambling. I know that I said time will tell, but I am going to take a semi-educated guess and say that this is going to hit me in the pocketbook by the end of the month.

/back to bagging lunch to work for me.

adfree




msg:1415762
 12:22 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Anyone knows when?

loanuniverse




msg:1415763
 12:24 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Anyone knows when?

ASA said today in msg #60 in this thread.

MarkHutch




msg:1415764
 12:49 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

ASA, I hope the media bot will play a big roll in this new system. The regular Googlebot isn't crawling our sites as much as it use to. It seems like media bot is visiting all pages as soon as someone visits them. Please don't take this the wrong way, but some of us get traffic to pages that Googlebot has not crawled, but other SE's have. The only way those pages can serve up the correct advertisements is for media bot to play a big roll within indexing a page.

[edited by: MarkHutch at 1:29 am (utc) on April 2, 2004]

anxvariety




msg:1415765
 12:52 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

My prediction is that AdSense will continue to become more and more affiliate like.. click value eventually being tied to directly to actual case ROI on clicks.

dazzlindonna




msg:1415766
 12:54 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I was concerned about this until I looked at the numbers today. My dollars have SHOT UP today! Wow! Hope this continues.

shortz




msg:1415767
 1:21 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I was concerned about this until I looked at the numbers today. My dollars have SHOT UP today! Wow! Hope this continues

Hummn, obviously too early to tell but it certainly is not a good day for earning levels for me.

I don't necessairly agree that say a camera review site is more likely to get the clicker to buy the camera any more likely than when someone reads about an image created with said camera and decides they want one based on what they see.

But then.. what do I know ;)

HOPE it all works out for everyone, advertisers as well as publishers and, of course, G...

Wayne

longen




msg:1415768
 2:00 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

loanuniverse >> The triggering of a particular ad might not be because of the presence of a single keyword, but the use of this word and others in the page. Now the same way that the ad is triggered will be affecting the amount that is charged to the advertiser. I think that depending on the ad that was triggered there will be words or concepts that will decrease the pricing as well as words/concepts that will increase the pricing.
Lets not even get into modifiers such as having the word “free” before “widget”. It could be that this layout might affect your EPC more than having the word “free” later in the sentence.<<

Words like "free", "reduced", "discount", could become poison words for some advertisers - what are the chances of selling an expensive product to web-surfers chasing those terms.

We have had some good threads about semantics over the last few months which i must reread.

varya




msg:1415769
 2:02 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

So Adsense Advisor says, your revenue may go up, or down, and a clear pattern may not be evident for awhile.

Meanwhile, over in the Google Adwords forum, Adwords Advisor said that Google would be charging advertisers lower CPC and that "many of you will be pleased."

Not really sure how this advertisers pay less but publishers earn more formula is going to work.

loanuniverse




msg:1415770
 2:15 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Meanwhile, over in the Google Adwords forum, Adwords Advisor said that Google would be charging advertisers lower CPC and that "many of you will be pleased."

Well, this obviously is meant to cater to the advertisers. I am not saying that is a bad idea, after all they are Google’s customers. We are …. Hmmmm what is the best word {partners}.

Words like "free", "reduced", "discount", could become poison words for some advertisers…

This is going to be kind of a problem for those of us giving something out for free. :D

Visi




msg:1415771
 3:01 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

AFter reading and rereading the email. I am still scratching my head in amazement that so many words could say so little. No definitive statements, no explanation, just words flowing across the page that read like a press release foer an unknown cause and effect? Bottom line again I am a the whim of google determining the "usefullness" of my site and pages, determining the worth...somehow...and basing the revenue on this. No real explanation of how or why, just a "whim and a prayer" that increased CTR will offset this effect. Think I will go back to wine tasting....it offers more relief than google's letters to my mind:)

MarkHutch




msg:1415772
 3:28 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

So far today, we are seeing reduced income on the same uniques and CTR. I'm going to take Google at their word that this should work itself out over the next few weeks when more advertisers join up. However, today is a very sad day for us. Hoping for better days to come.

Visit Thailand




msg:1415773
 3:33 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Definitely give it a week or two as I am sure there will be some more algo tweaks for this new formula as I have seen some very unsual (completely unrelated off topic ads) alongside some highly targetted ads in the two ad banner style.

europeforvisitors




msg:1415774
 3:43 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

On my site, I'm not yet seeing any differences as a result of the change.

CTR is the same as for the last 7 days and for March.

EPC is the same as for the last 7 days and for March.

Even the ads appear to be the same as they were before the changeover, at least on the pages that I check now and then.

Granted, it's early days yet, and advertisers haven't had a chance to respond to the changes. But so far, on a site that gets about 11,000 visitors a day, both the ads and the numbers represent business as usual.

onlineshrine




msg:1415775
 3:48 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

My EPC is at normal levels but my CTR is actually down, slightly below even the low point in the normal margin of error.

Time will tell if this is actually beneficial, but I wonder if Google is out-thinking themselves on this one.

MarkHutch




msg:1415776
 3:50 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

The reason this is hitting us so hard is that we have one site that earned a much larger amount per click than any of the others we operate. I'm sure that advertisers have bid up the price on that type of site and Adsense was really make us some pretty good money. In fact that one site earned more than 12 others we have put together. Not more traffic or CTR, but great income per click. Oh well, I guess it was too good to be true. :)

TheDave




msg:1415777
 4:07 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

My EPC seems to be down 1/3 :( Time to start exploring some other option I think.. 5000 impressions a day has to be worth more than what they're paying me

shortz




msg:1415778
 4:22 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Our EPC is down considerably today also but, some days have been that way in the past. I've only got a 22 day history to base anything on but I certainly hope that the CPC thing does not turn out to be consistant.

Something is better than nothing, I like the way the ads are served and have enjoyed a great 22 days to date..

I'm not going to get too dissapointed for a few weeks I think.. it does bear watching though.

Wayne

annej




msg:1415779
 4:25 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Up until yesterday I was getting very targeted ads related to the interests of my users. For example, in a section about older cars there were ads related to restoration parts, etc. Today almost all I see are ads for new car dealers.

Same here until this evening, now the targeting seems to be a little better. I'm not seeing anything new and different in terms of better targeted pages though.

I can't tell if my earnings are down today or if the reports are just slow in coming as the impressions are down compared to a typical Thursday.

ignatz




msg:1415780
 4:30 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I did't get that email. Is this an April fools?

edit - sorry just checked and I did receive it.

I think my current strategy is safe... concentrate on good content, don't worry about adsense ;)

rainmakerpsi




msg:1415781
 4:37 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Whoooo. I use to have a page with great ads on it. That page mentioned that it uses a DSL line on the server and a T1 for another server. Now i'm getting SBC Ads. Grrrr.
just started today.
This really is bad.

iownjoo




msg:1415782
 4:39 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

heh... My profits are down 90+% per click. There goes a huge chunk of revenue....Unless its a fluke (Hope so but looks like its not)

Was 2-4 dollars a click asking too much? =0

Webwork




msg:1415783
 4:40 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

This announcement presages the next generation of black hat system gaming, where the black hats now make it their chore to determine what word ratios, etc. generate the highest payout, even if the page looks like pure gibberish, and then that maneuver is followed by the ongoing algo tweaking by Google and so on. This does not bode well....maybe. If gibberish results in a better ROI for advertisers then what?

Isn't it logical to say that nice, quality sites with good content should attract better paying more confident advertisers, but, what if the bad old black hat boys & girls nasty websites show higher ROI and greater click throughs? Strange world indeed.

Veg-o-matic anyone?

europeforvisitors




msg:1415784
 4:47 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

This announcement presages the next generation of black hat system gaming...

Actually, it sounds more like a strategy to discourage black-hat system gaming by making it harder to profit from keyword-based sites that were created solely to exploit AdSense.

Sunflux




msg:1415785
 4:48 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

So far I'm not a particularly happy camper for my informational **and** review site... CPC is about the same, but EPC is at the bottom end of my 6 month history.

One thing I'm noticing, my main keywords have two general product meanings, and I notice that Google seems to be alternating displaying pages containing ads clustered to either meaning. So, get a page with 4 ads relating to off-topic meaning #1, refresh and get a page with 4 ads relating to on-topic meaning #2.

Now, in the past, Google didn't really have any trouble matching my topic - almost all ads were on-topic. I'm getting annoyed by all these off-topic ads and am wondering if I should go on a blocking splurge.

So far I've only blocked **one** domain, starting today actually, since it's a product with a name identical to something completely different, and it's showing up **everywhere** as the #1 result on my ads.

linear




msg:1415786
 4:49 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

varya was popularly supposed to have said:
Not really sure how this advertisers pay less but publishers earn more formula is going to work.

My attempt at answering this: by improving the efficiency of matching ads to content pages, which should drive CTR up across the network.

Consider two hypothetical webmasters though--the first tends toward articles/pages on broader topics, perhaps widgets and widget repair with a smattering of interviews with widget makers. Still with a site-wide coherent topic, the articles are mainly general. Our second writes specific, narrow articles: red widgets for April, using hand tools for widget repair, 10 essential widgets for your collection, 5 features to look for in a heavy-duty widget, etc.

Now consider two advertisers--the first buys broad keyphrases, the second narrows things down to specifics.

It makes sense to me that if the system does a better job of bringing the second webmaster and second advertiser together, that is the most efficient case and should result in the highest CTR of all the possible publisher-advertiser combinations. And bringing the first publisher and first advertiser together should result in no worse results than the previous system produced. So there would be a net improvement of efficiency, that should on average produce the thing that varya is skeptical about.

Unless you happen to be the first publisher in this example (and we can discuss the first advertiser), things look pretty good under this scenario, as far as my analysis goes.

Now, enough theory, on with the empiricism:
On a couple very popular pages that I have on the topic of spraypainting widgets, the ads used to positively suck. They were for everything but the right thing, namely spraypaint and associated stuff like sandpaper and rubbing compound. I chalked it up to the articles being long (okay, wordy) so that the algo couldn't suss out the real topic from all the text.

Today the clouds parted, and these pages are serving spot-on ads. I didn't have a channel set up to watch them, but I'm starting one right now. I can pretty safely assume a minimal CTR for these pages under the previous look, I'm just curious to know how well they do now.

And that's how both sides can win.

ignatz




msg:1415787
 4:56 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

As usual, we'll probably have to look at the figures over the course of a month or so. Today is most likely a blip, my daily revenue is twice average at this stage.

I represent a couple domains (pretty badly) on the advertiser side, and from my experience the advertisers are still going to be willing to pay the same if nor more money per click. The complaint I've heard most often is that Adwords doesn't convert as well as some of the other options.

As it stands I imagine when it all plays out, that the average earning per click will go down, but the CTR will go up a bit.

I can't help thinking that the google team knows how happy most publishers are at the moment. So happy that they could probably trim back a bit over time resulting in decent jumps in net revenue.

jonathanleger




msg:1415788
 5:19 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

As of this morning I'm now getting 3 out of 4 irrelevent ads on the leaderboard. My daily $ is 1/3 of what it normally is. These changes are not good for me...

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