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This 533 message thread spans 18 pages: < < 533 ( 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 18 > >     
Major changes to AdSense
Pricing structure and ad relevance
markus007




msg:1415698
 8:04 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Unless adsense is sending out a april fools joke, what do people think of the changes? Every site has a unique pricing model?

For example, a click on an ad for digital cameras on a web page about photography tips may be worth less than a click on the same ad appearing next to a review of digital cameras.

[edited by: markus007 at 8:08 pm (utc) on April 1, 2004]

 

icedowl




msg:1415728
 9:34 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

I finally received my copy of the email.

Only time will tell how this will all play out.

loanuniverse




msg:1415729
 9:43 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

EFV:

I think I understand what you are saying. If for example there is an adwords advertiser that is getting charged $1.00 per click and it gets clicked on two different sites, then assuming a 50/50 split both sites will get:

Site 1 = $1.00 click $0.50 {partial match}
Site 2 = $1.00 click $0.50 {perfect match}

In the new regime the split might still be 50/50, but:

Site 1 = $0.80 click $0.40 {partial match}
Site 2 = $1.00 click $0.50 {perfect match}

In this case the payout remains at 50%. However, I think that this at the very least is changing the rules of the game. Therefore, I disagree, and think that they are changing the payout structure wether or not the money is going into Google's pocket, it will still affect the publisher. Good or bad only time will tell.

I have three months of continuing revenue growth, it would be a shame to break the streak.

cpnmm




msg:1415730
 9:48 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think this is just a realignment of market forces. If content matching can be thought of as similar to typing keywords into a search engine, someone searching for a 'digital cameras' on google will be more likely to buy a digital camera than someone searching for 'photography tips'. Therefore if both pages serve the same ads then the ones matched for digital camera should be worth more.

We can't comment on the payout formula as we have never been told what it is or whether it is being changed. What we have been told is that the price per ad for adwords customers is going to change. This doesn't affect the payout formula although they could easily change this as well if they wish.

blaze




msg:1415731
 9:49 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Good to see that EFV has finally come around. Only took an email from Google..

Now all Google needs to do is shape up their conversion tracking so that their data gets more accurate and the Good publishers are awarded more and the Bad publishers are awarded less.

MarkHutch




msg:1415732
 9:52 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have three months of continuing revenue growth, it would be a shame to break the streak.

Ditto!

ogletree




msg:1415733
 9:54 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

My CPC has gone down the last few days after going up every week.

martinibuster




msg:1415734
 9:55 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

...we all know that Yahoo will roll out a competing product soon, and Google will have to be careful.

Overture's contextual matching program has been limping in circles for awhile now. Is something new on the horizon?

freitasm




msg:1415735
 9:57 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Has this gone in to affect yet? Today, I noticed a huge increase in payout EPC versus yesterday..

It's probably on the network for six to ten days now. I've noticed that in the last week my daily earning were on the rise, with a small increase on CTR too.

The last ten days were the highest revenue, and I'm on AdSense since July'03. On the first day I noticed something going on I said to my girlfriend "Uh, that's going to be a good day". The next day I had beaten 100% of previous day revenue by midday. And it got better after this.

MarkHutch




msg:1415736
 10:04 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

We've seen an increase over the past 10 days too. I hope you're right that the changes have already gone into effect.

Eltiti




msg:1415737
 10:16 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Am I missing something?

An AdWords advertiser can already set maximum amounts per KWP, e.g., digital cameras $1, photography tips $0.50. In other words, it is the responsibility of the advertiser to determine the "worth" of each KWP --and rightly so IMO.

Now Google is going to determine the expected value of each click to the advertiser?! I would have thought that requires a lot of insight into what happens "after the click"...

If the new policy does indeed mean what it seems to mean, I fear the quality of many AdSense sites will be negatively affected --instead of providing useful info about MyTown, USA, publishers will start providing even more "reviews" of MyTown hotels: not just to trigger the desired ads, but to get a bigger share of the pie by being a "commercially interesting" site... :-(

Powdork




msg:1415738
 10:19 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Does anyone think that these changes will take place within a site. For instance, many photography sites have both photography tips pages as well as product review pages. Will ad rates vary within a domain for the same ad?

anxvariety




msg:1415739
 10:27 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

This is their way of being able to lump all the crappy sites out there together and give them less per click.. hoping that they'll switch to affiliate programs - since it costs Google more to maintain these accounts than they are generating.

yump




msg:1415740
 10:29 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Perhaps best not to take the digital camera example too literally, its not the best one in the world.

Perhaps the intent behind this can't specifically be mentioned, but isn't it true that under the past structure a site about cardboard boxes could put up some vague content pages about domain hosting and get the same CPC as a 'proper' site about what to look for when choosing a host.

Can't see how that can be a good thing.

Yes, some real buyers might click on it, but this is a numbers and percentages game and as an advertiser, I'd rather be paying more for more relevance. Also I don't think its true that choosing keywords in my Adwords campaign would stop Adsense ads appearing on irrelevant sites.

Jon_King




msg:1415741
 10:33 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Has this relevancy just now taken affect or has it been going on for some time? In other words will there be a major shift yesterday vs. today?

ken_b




msg:1415742
 10:34 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

I read the email as saying that info sites like mine might get lower cost ads, but better targeting could lead to a higher CTR.

If that's right, those two factors will hopefully balance each other out.

jranes




msg:1415743
 10:36 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

So this will mean that a site like about.com that is about everything should be seeing a big decline in epc. That sounds good to me, the deeper into the niche the more targeted.

Sounds good as long as my revenue doesn't go down that is.

jomaxx




msg:1415744
 10:38 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Scary. I'm willing to wait and see on this, but I wish they would have at least told us when the new changes rolled out/are rolling out/will roll out.

I know they love to keep publishers in the dark, but how can they justify treating their advertisers that way?

cpnmm




msg:1415745
 10:40 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

The email talks about 'pages' rather than 'sites' - a highly product focused page on about.com will have more relevant ads and therefore higher cost than a less focused page on about.com.

Teshka




msg:1415746
 10:40 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well, I'll be bummed if my earnings go down on my non-review type sites, but if it makes for better ROI for the people paying for Adwords, it'll be better for all in the long run.

Silver Surfer




msg:1415747
 10:41 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Are the changes already in effect?

ken_b




msg:1415748
 10:48 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

"...Are the changes already in effect?..."

That seems to be unknown at the moment.

justageek




msg:1415749
 10:50 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

TCLA has been doing this for a while now and it works just fine. Don't panic people. The effect is to reward the pages that do well and not the ones that generate crap traffic. It helps the program out as a whole and actually allows a less than stellar site to still participate. The only ones who should worry are the ones who are unsure of the quality of traffic or are generating false clicks.

This is the logical way to do this type of advertising and I'm curious as to why it took so long for Google to figure it out. Not all sites are created equal and this is a fair way to handle it.

JAG

steve40




msg:1415750
 10:51 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi all,
I think this has already gone into effect
as an adwords advertiser and an adsense publisher , the ROI on content has always been lower on Content providers than pure search and often cpc has been higher

Over the last few days I have noticed that my cpc consistently on content sites has been lower than pure search .
2 of my sites increased cpc and ctr significantly and 3 decreased cpc and ctr

As an advertiser I was thinking of dropping content sites due to the ROI as could many others , so although income for many will decrease without advertisers feeling good about advertising on content sites the long term effects would be a downturn of income anyway
just my 2 cents
steve

itisgene




msg:1415751
 10:57 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Not all Adwords advertisers turned the content ads on, meaning the CPC for content ads SHOULD BE lower than search CPC due to the lower competition for the keywords.

As an advertiser, if I can pay far less than the current CPC for content ads separately (that is what Google adwords will announce soon), I will turn it on again.

MarkHutch




msg:1415752
 11:08 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

This might hurt a bit at first, but it could turn into a great money making opportunity in the long run. I can understand why advertisers would want to target their ads to commercial sites, since most commercial sites are already selling something to the public, not just researching information on a subject. As an advertiser, I would pay more for ads on sites that might allow my clicks to convert better.

Also, it's going to be more important than ever to have good anchor text from other web sites since that seems to be ranking more and more in the algo of what a page/site is really all about.

Broadway




msg:1415753
 11:13 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

I love AdSense money but also realize that the AdSense program needs to be a positive thing for all involved.
I can't say I really comprehend the new changes but:

1)If the changes are some how a better thing for the advertisers, if it gets them better clicks, then that's a good thing for the AdSense program and a good thing for me. I don't mind earning somewhat less if the changes make it likely that the AdSense program will remain healthy and continue to be a source of income for me.

2)If these changes are some way for AdSense to weed out some participating sites I think that's great too. I would like the AdSense program to be more selective in choosing participating publishers. I would like AdSense to be known as a place to get quality clicks for advertisers. Right now it has more of the reputation of being second teir to the AdWords ads you see on the SERP's.

nacho_man




msg:1415754
 11:29 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Time to wake up guys.. I know someone who was at the webmaster conference in Florida.. he doesn't usse adsense, I do, but he did listen to a conversation that a group were having with an adsense rep from google about "knowing how much we earn per click". He intejected and said "is the reason you don't tell anyone so that in a few months when everyone is nicely hooked and dependent you can drop the rate and they won't be able to argue?" Cue - not happy Google rep -.

Well when EVERYONE's earning drop they can now say it is because your site is not relevant to an advertiser' who btw they have never met or discussed what the advertiser is looking for.

Look at it this way, we don't know how they calculate the money, we have next to zero real tracking and yet they send us this email to explain something that is just utter piffle. But at least we now all have a reason for the drop.

Watch out for.. "My earnings have dropped off.." thread followed by lots of "Ahh it's beacuse of the relevancy of your site". What they have user profiles of everyone who visits my sites now .. wish they would post them to me as they would be very useful.

markus007




msg:1415755
 11:34 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

New adsense bot user agent it seems...

Mediapartners-Google/2.1

used to be
Mediapartners-Google/2.1 (+http://www.googlebot.com/bot.html)

I just saw google sent out a notice to advertisers now... saying pretty much the same thing and this new pricing is yet to come into effect.

AdSenseAdvisor




msg:1415756
 11:44 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Let me try to address a few of the questions that have come up so far...

First of all, the changes did indeed go into effect today.

The email talks about 'pages' rather than 'sites'

This is correct - the pricing for a particular ad will take into account the keywords/concepts on the page that triggered the ad, the context of those keywords/concepts on the page, and the system's calculation of the value of that combination. The value is calculated based on a large number of factors, and is constantly updated as information is fed back into the system.

The photography example was only to demonstrate how this may work - review sites across the board are not necessarily going to provide higher value to advertisers. It's a case-by-case calculation.

So, you may find that your revenue goes up, goes down, or stays the same. It may take some time to see a pattern emerging.

In the end, as many of you have pointed out, we expect it to drive growth in the advertiser base for content sites, which can only be a good thing :)

ASA

CPCretirement




msg:1415757
 11:52 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Up until yesterday I was getting very targeted ads related to the interests of my users. For example, in a section about older cars there were ads related to restoration parts, etc. Today almost all I see are ads for new car dealers.

I'll be surprised if this works to my benefit. It certainly doesn't work to my users benefit yet.

europeforvisitors




msg:1415758
 11:56 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

EFV you don't seem to be making sense. Of course the payment structure has changed.

Mario, I'm not talking about payment, I'm talking about payout, which is how Google splits incoming revenues with the publisher.

Incoming revenues may be affected for better or worse by the new variable ad rates, but that's a different kettle of fish from changing the payout formula.

This 533 message thread spans 18 pages: < < 533 ( 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 18 > >
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