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Competing PPC Engine Backlash
Kanoodle and Overture denying pages with "Ads by Google"
CalArch90




msg:1410275
 2:52 am on Jan 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

I recently opened an account with Kanoodle and, much to my surprise, the pages I submitted were declined because they contained "Ads by Google" on the landing pages. This is unreal!

I've had an account with Overture for much longer, but they also seem to want to decline my new submittals for the same reason, although I've appealed and have not received a final verdict.

According to Kanoodle, they will not allow advertisers to promote competing search engines, and since the landing page contains "Ads by Google", which they say is a direct competitor, it would not benefit them to send their consumers to that page.

So this means I have to remove my AdSense Ads from any page I want to submit to their PPC Engine. This is an outcry! I am obviously going to ask them to refund my account, but the thought of not being able to display ads by their competitors on my pages seems ridiculous.

Has anyone else experienced this. I'm not going to remove Google's ads from my pages just to please Kanoodle, but this means I am going to lose out on some potential traffic.

At this point, I'm pretty dependent on PPC traffic, so this can have a significant effect on my marketing campaign, especially if Overture decides to take the same route.

If I want to use their services, I basically have to remove the ads on my home page, direct all visitors there, since it is only the landing page that counts (at least that's what I understood from this) and only have ads in the interior pages.

Has anyone else experienced this?

 

karatekid




msg:1410276
 4:56 am on Jan 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'd read that on another board about Kanoodle. Didn't know about Overture. But really, I don't know what Kanoodle hits are good for. I tried their PPC and thought I was under an onslaught of bots or re-directed Chinese traffic. It was 100% unproductive. I'd accept their rejection as a gift and spend the money on more AdWords.

CalArch90




msg:1410277
 5:09 am on Jan 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

LOL, I guess I should accept their rejection as good news. By the way, how do you spot bots in the log files? What distinguishes bot hits from regular hits?

martinibuster




msg:1410278
 5:16 am on Jan 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Don't lose sleep over kanoodle. Suspicious traffic (never hung around the site, nor have an isp behind them as human surfers do) from the most suspicious sources I have ever seen (template "search" sites that I had never ever heard of until I tried the kanoodle trial).

CalArch90




msg:1410279
 5:19 am on Jan 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Is the same true of Enhance (formerly Ah-ha)? or are they better than Kanoodle with the robot issue?

Jenstar




msg:1410280
 7:55 am on Jan 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

If they are trying to get people to stop using AdSense and go for their own competitive version instead, I don't think they are going about it the right way. It is pretty easy for someone to create an alternate AdSense-free landing page strictly for Ov/Kanoodle. If anything, people would be less likely to switch from Google AdSense because of these bully-type tactics.

Is this going to hurt Google AdSense - I highly doubt it.

Will it hurt Kanoodle and/or Ov? - it could definitely, even if it is just to the extent of grumblings over having to make an AdSense-free landing page. And grumbling people often grumble vocally to others.

Now if either Kanoodle or Overture say that AdSense can't be on any pages in the entire domain, and not have this restriction explicitly on landing pages, I think the sparks will surely fly.

And now, even if Google now decides to follow suit and allows no AdSense-competitors on their Adwords landing pages, the precedence has already been set, and they won't come across as the "bad guy".

I am very interested for the Overture confirmation that these keywords were denied due to AdSense on the landing page.

CalArch90




msg:1410281
 11:35 am on Jan 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

I agree. This will only hurt Kanoodle. Google's Adwords is the top of the line, I can't imagine anyone who has an established relationship with Google making a switch over to Kanoodle's program.

The only sites they are going to receive as publishers are those turned down by Google or, even worse, those who had accounts and were closed down because of suspicious activity. This will further affect Kanoodle's reputation.

I haven't received final word from Overture, so I don't want to jump to any conclusions yet. They seem to be using a somewhat more diplomatic approach and have not expressly indicated that they don't accept landing pages with "Ads by Google".

I've already had many of my pages added to their PPC program, so unless they retract those listings, I have a good part of my site already receiving traffic from them.

You are also correct, I believe, in saying that this will probably, in turn, cause Google to do the same, and the issue will escalate.

I'll definitely keep you posted about the Overture thing once I hear from them. I've been happy with their service so far, so I hope they make the right decision.

CalArch90




msg:1410282
 3:36 am on Jan 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well, I had promised to get back to everyone when I heard from Overture. I just got their response. I'm afraid it's not good news.

They mentioned in their response that they are sorry but they have to stand by their original decision because the sponsored results on the landing page are in direct competition with them.

This is unbelievable. At the moment, I can no longer even log in to my account. I hope this is just a temporary technical problem with their site, but I'm not so sure.

I'm really disappointed at Overture's stand. Is this a sign of what the Yahoo merger will make of Overture? I'm beginning to feel like this is no longer the same company I had been dealing with over the past year. How disappointing.

At this point it seems the only options are to not use Overture, remove the ads by google (not going to happen), or communicate this to Google and see if they are willing to remove the "Ads by Google" disclaimer on the ads. This is not going to happen either, and Google has every right to use the "Ads by Google" label on their results. It is their product.

Any thoughts on this?

buckworks




msg:1410283
 3:49 am on Jan 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

the sponsored results on the landing page are in direct competition with them.

By refusing to accept pages that display Adsense they'll simply drive people to spend more with Adwords.

CalArch90




msg:1410284
 3:54 am on Jan 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yes, that's true they will lose a lot of potential and even existing advertisers. For me this is pretty devastating though, because Overture is my main source of targeted traffic. This is going to impact my earnings, which in turn will impact Google's earnings, which ... I guess is exactly what they ultimately want to achieve.

FromRocky




msg:1410285
 4:14 am on Jan 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I opened an account with Overture last week. It approved all of my landing pages which all have "Ads by Google" label.

CalArch90




msg:1410286
 4:27 am on Jan 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've also had about 80 keywords added, up until the time you mention. However this is a recent submittal, about three to four days ago. This is probably a policy they just implemented within the last couple of days.

Jenstar




msg:1410287
 4:29 am on Jan 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thank you for following up CalArch90. Was any mention made of AdSonar to you?

I wonder if not all editors are up-to-speed on the no-AdSense on landing page rule. Or perhaps it just began this week in preparation for the official lauch of AdSonar.

I wonder how many advertisers will decide against using Overture due to this policy of not allowing AdSense. Or will most simply make duplicate pages without AdSense for the sole purpose of using Overture PPC. I can't see Overture's position being effective at all in convincing advertisers to remove AdSense site-wide (or perhaps go to AdSonar instead).

I could not find anything in the Overture guidelines etc last night that cover AdSense (or any other kind of competing "sponsored links") not being permitted on landing pages. The only thing it said was that you were not allowed to run Ov ads on landing pages - but no mention of competitors. I wonder how quickly this will be corrected.

CalArch90




msg:1410288
 4:37 am on Jan 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

It could have something to do with AdSonar, the timing makes it very likely. As I mentioned, I had been able to submit my pages without any problems up until last week or so.

The pages I submitted are identical in layout to the ones I've been submitting over the last few months, and they've always gone through the editorial process very smoothly.

It actually seems to me that the policy has not been fully defined (if it in fact is a policy), because it seems to me they were trying to come up with an explanation on the fly.

I was able to log in to my account, by the way, it seems to just have been a momentary glitch with their system.

CalArch90




msg:1410289
 4:51 am on Jan 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have contacted their customer service and asked if this will, in fact, become a standard "policy" in the future. Again, once I receive an answer, I will let everyone know.

KanoodleDood




msg:1410290
 4:43 pm on Jan 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi all. I am from the Kanoodle team and I wanted to share the below information with you in regards to this editorial review issue:

Kandoodle’s relevancy policy has never been to reject sites that simply have Ads by Google on them in addition to other information, products, and/or services. We reject sites that ONLY have Ads by Google on them - sites that don't offer any other content.

CalArch90




msg:1410291
 5:38 pm on Jan 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

That is not true.

Quality of content was never cited as the reason the site was turned down. "Ads by Google" displayed on the landing pages was specifically cited as the reason.

Google Ads are comprised of anywhere from two to four listings in various formats. If what you are saying is true, then those sites with "no content", as you claim, would have only two to four lines of ads on them and nothing more.

Here's another hint. Google Ads don't work unless there is content on the page.

Give me a break.

KanoodleDood




msg:1410292
 8:24 pm on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

There are many ways that Web sites present Google ads. In fact, some sites do nothing else but re-publish Google ads. However, we list many sites that simply include a block of Google ads – it’s hard to find sites without them these days. If your site was rejected for that reason alone, it was an error on our part. Please resubmit your listings and we’ll get them up and running right away.

CalArch90




msg:1410293
 3:05 am on Jan 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

KanoodleDood,

I can't resubmit because I closed my account. Anyway, I realize now I probably got too worked up about this. Sorry. I just didn't feel my site was turned down for the right reasons.

My site has plenty of content, some pages more than others, but overall I've put a lot of work into the site over the years. I get lots of good feedback from my users, so I know it is doing pretty well.

No hard feelings by the way :-)

ByronM




msg:1410294
 5:47 am on Jan 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

I did the $5.00 free sample on kanoodle and all of my pages have ads by google on them. I didn't get rejected or anything.

Only thing i didn't like about kanoodle was the email every 6 hours telling me to buy more :)

CalArch90




msg:1410295
 12:57 pm on Jan 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

Guess next time I better do the $5 trial thing too ;)

KanoodleDood




msg:1410296
 6:26 pm on Jan 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

CalArch90,

I'm sorry that our relevancy team mistakenly rejected your site. Feel free to email me offline if you would like to resolve as quickly as possible.

pflyers




msg:1410297
 12:04 am on Feb 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

I had the same thing happen, took off the adsense ads and replaced them with an affiliate banner.

I got approval, placed my adsense ads back on and
burned through $50 in "clicks"

one click on an adsense ad out of like 400 supposed
"clicks" from kanoodle.

be glad you were disapproved...it's total junk in my opinion.

CalArch90




msg:1410298
 5:21 pm on Feb 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

pflyers, that's pretty funny. I thought of that too, but then decided it wasn't worth the trouble.

I'm beginning to realize that the only PPC's you need are AdWords, Overture and FindWhat (it's worked for me). The others either do not deliver enough traffic or do not have the fraudulent clicks issue under control.

I found a good suggestion in one of the other message boards that I might try out to really bring in more traffic. For about $600 you can issue a press release through PR Newswire and have your story circulated nationally through thousands of web sites. It's worth a try if your site offers something unique.

loanuniverse




msg:1410299
 12:58 am on Feb 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

Anyone else has first hand experience on Overture turning you down if your landing page has adsense?

I really don't want to have to take out the code just to submit.

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