homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.166.228.100
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: incrediBILL & jatar k & martinibuster

Google AdSense Forum

This 66 message thread spans 3 pages: 66 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
Adwords / Adsense in Email!
What do you think about this?
dazzlindonna




msg:1323643
 5:29 am on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

Reuters News reports [forbes.com] that "Google Inc., which dominates the market for Web search, is developing a service that could dramatically extend the reach of its lucrative keyword-based advertising by linking such ads to e-mail"

I'm not sure what to think about this. It basically goes on to say that G may open its own email service (similar to hotmail, yahoo, etc), and then serving ad(s) when the mail is opened.

Part of me thinks, oh no, not more cr@p in my email to deal with. But the adsense publisher part of me thinks, hmmm...how would this help my revenues?

Any thoughts?

[webmasterworld.com...]

 

europeforvisitors




msg:1323644
 5:52 am on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

This sounds like an application for AdWords, not AdSense. I don't see how publishers would benefit or even be involved.

mlemos




msg:1323645
 5:56 am on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

This is not an AdSense topic. It would be if the the news were about placing AdSense tags in our sites newsletters. It is said that it is working already somewhere but I do not know where and how.

One way that could work is by having a Web service where the publishers could submit the HTML of their current newsletter issue right before delivering and then Google would return the HTML tags to place in the newsletter body so it would be targetted to the current content.

Jenstar




msg:1323646
 8:15 am on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think dazzlindonna is commenting on how AdSense within email could work well for publishers. Imagine if publishers could include the AdSense code after their signature on all outgoing emails.

With so many people sending out HTML newsletters, I could see how publishers with huge subscriber bases could profit from somehow including AdSense into an emailed newsletter.

The logistics of doing something like this could be complicated, since an email is only read once. There could also be privacy concerns as well.

As for Google offering a web-based hotmail-like service to display ads on, again there would be privacy concerns, since the mediabot would essentially have to read private correspondence to display correctly targeted ads.

But it is definitely food for thought. If it could be worked out, publishers who have a related newsletter/ezine with their site running AdSense could greatly profit from this kind of thing. But I think the technicalities of this would be too extreme at this point, but then with Google, you just never know.

justageek




msg:1323647
 12:27 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

This can and has been worked out and has been running from other folks for a while now.

There are two ways that I know of that it is done today and it is quite easy. The first way is to hyperlink certain keywords within an html e-newsletter and when a user clicks on it a new window opens with relevant search results. The second is to insert an image tag into the newsletter where an image version of an ad block is inserted in real time when the user opens the newsletter and takes the user directly to the advertiser.

Both options are automatic and only requires the sender to send the email to an email address. A program on the receiving end parses through the newsletter to determine what it is about and then decides what keywords to highlight or what image tag to insert. The e-newsletter is sent back to the sender to deliver through their normal means.

The whole process takes only a few minutes to do depending on internet traffic.

The manual way to do it is to allow the e-newsletter owner to insert the call to the ad image themselves if privacy issues are a concern.

I kinda knew Google was going to do this but if I told you how this post would self destruct ;-)

JAG

karatekid




msg:1323648
 12:43 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

The hotmail angle is an AdSense related topic as well.

Everyone.net (as well as other smaller concerns) provide branded email for domain owners that allows anyone to provide a free hotmail type service. Those domain owners/publishers control the 468X60 banner at the top of the page where users access their email.

I've seen sites running standard banner AdSense code in that space, but most of the time they're returning PSAs. There isn't enough content on most of those pages to draw keywords from. I suspect the ones that serve paying ads are getting the keywords from the overall theme of the rest of the pages of the domain.

Jenstar




msg:1323649
 4:14 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

"In fact, Google's AdSense contextual ads are already used in a number of e-mail newsletters," he (spokesman David Krane) said.

www.forbes.com/technology/newswire/2004/01/16/rtr1215458.html

I find this realy interesting. I would think there would be a ton of room for manipulation in this kind of thing. The thing I am most wondering about is how it knows what ads to display, since email is either online and password protected, or in a local folder on someone's computer. Does it display default ads that the publisher usually displays on the site? Does it get presubmitted somehow so the mediabot can spider each issue?

If they can pull it off (and it sounds as though they will after reading this article), this could bring even more publishers, since there are many who have massive double-opt-in mailing lists but without a large traffic generating site.

They will be using Sprinks technology to deliver email-based ads it seems.

Timing is interesting - apparently email-based ads are part of Kanoodle's program as well.

<added>With Kanoodle launching their email-based ads in a few weeks, it could persuade AdSense publishers to try out Kanoodle, when they might not have done so otherwise. The contextual ad market is definitely heating up.</added>

Shak




msg:1323650
 4:31 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

from an advertisers point of view, will email advertising come under content or something completely new?

Shak

europeforvisitors




msg:1323651
 4:41 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think dazzlindonna is commenting on how AdSense within email could work well for publishers. Imagine if publishers could include the AdSense code after their signature on all outgoing emails.

The idea sounds terrible to me. It will simply add to the flood of spam e-mail, and it will encourage the bigger players to abuse their mailing lists. (I still get About.com newsletters after repeated attempts to unsubscribe.) It will also debase AdSense as an advertising medium, because anything associated with spam will be a turnoff for readers.

This is a classic example of short-term thinking, not unlike the way Google released AdSense before it had quality controls in place.

mlemos




msg:1323652
 5:09 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

The idea sounds terrible to me. It will simply add to the flood of spam e-mail, and it will encourage the bigger players to abuse their mailing lists. (I still get About.com newsletters after repeated attempts to unsubscribe.) It will also debase AdSense as an advertising medium, because anything associated with spam will be a turnoff for readers.

This is a classic example of short-term thinking, not unlike the way Google released AdSense before it had quality controls in place.

You are assuming that Google would accept placing AdSense banners in all newsletters. I think a previous evaluation would be required as for accepting publishers in AdSense in general.

justageek




msg:1323653
 5:23 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

The idea sounds terrible to me. It will simply add to the flood of spam e-mail, and it will encourage the bigger players to abuse their mailing lists.

It actually works quite well but over the last few years it hasn't been accepted as main stream advertising but rather a secondary way to ensure every newsletter has the potential to be enhanced.

The thing I am most wondering about is how it knows what ads to display, since email is either online and password protected, or in a local folder on someone's computer.

Read post number 5.

JAG

Jenstar




msg:1323654
 5:27 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

If it is a program on the receiving end, it is going to cause privacy concerns. When a company the size of Google does it, people will take notice.

europeforvisitors




msg:1323655
 5:43 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

mlemos wrote:

You are assuming that Google would accept placing AdSense banners in all newsletters. I think a previous evaluation would be required as for accepting publishers in AdSense in general.

Google's acceptance standards are minimal, or at least they have been in the past. And once publishers are in the network, they can use their AdSense code on any site (even if it violates AdSense's program policies) until they get caught.

It's possible, of course, that Google would limit the e-mail use of AdWords to major corporate partners, but that wouldn't prevent "AdWords spam: It would simply limit such spam to high-volume mailers.

justageek




msg:1323656
 5:47 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

If it is a program on the receiving end, it is going to cause privacy concerns.

Not really. Email will not be the primary target. E-newsletters will be and those usually do not have privacy concerns but even then that can be overcome. E-newsletter sponsorship is a huge business and this adds one more way for those publishers to better monetize their e-newsletter. The reason why this type of advertising has not taken off is because a reputable publisher makes more money from a sponsorship at a set price. This does however open it up for the little guys who have a niche e-newsletter about specific topics who cannot get a direct sponsorship.

JAG

buckworks




msg:1323657
 5:52 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

As an Adwords advertiser I'd definitely want the ability to opt out of email-based advertising, separately from search and content sites.

justageek




msg:1323658
 5:56 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

As an Adwords advertiser I'd definitely want the ability to opt out of email-based advertising, separately from search and content sites.

It depends on how it is done. E-newsletter sponsorships can do very well if you know what to do. We'll have to wait and see if Google will implement it correctly.

JAG

mlemos




msg:1323659
 6:20 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

europeforvisitors wrote:

Google's acceptance standards are minimal, or at least they have been in the past. And once publishers are in the network, they can use their AdSense code on any site (even if it violates AdSense's program policies) until they get caught.

You are assuming that Google would use the same criteria for accepting publishers to AdSense in their sites.

To make this work right, I think Google should provide some programatic interface so publishers could automatically feed their current newsletters issues before mailing so they could insert their ad tags. If a publisher is not approved for placing ads in newsletters, the Google ads could just show a blank space.

It's possible, of course, that Google would limit the e-mail use of AdWords to major corporate partners, but that wouldn't prevent "AdWords spam: It would simply limit such spam to high-volume mailers.

If Google would accept placing ads only in opt-in newsletters that would leave professional spammers out.

europeforvisitors




msg:1323660
 6:27 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

If Google would accept placing ads only in opt-in newsletters that would leave professional spammers out.

The term "opt-in" doesn't always have the same meaning to e-mailers as it does to recipients, unfortunately, and Google has no way of knowing which lists are truly "opt-in" and which include addresses that were harvested through warranty registrations, online orders, etc.

Spam is spam, whether it comes from an anonymous bulk e-mailer, Quicken, or About.com.

mlemos




msg:1323661
 6:32 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

If Google would accept placing ads only in opt-in newsletters that would leave professional spammers out.

The term "opt-in" doesn't always have the same meaning to e-mailers as it does to recipients, unfortunately, and Google has no way of knowing which lists are truly "opt-in" and which include addresses that were harvested through warranty registrations, online orders, etc.

Spam is spam, whether it comes from an anonymous bulk e-mailer, Quicken, or About.com.

For me, that is not opt-in. If you want me to be accurate, read double opt-in where I wrote opt-in. That means that users voluntarily confirmed their subscription e-mail address by the means of a message that is sent to them with unique links to confirm the subscription.

buckworks




msg:1323662
 6:51 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

It depends on how it is done.

No matter how it's done, I'd like the ability to opt in or out separately from content and search.

Best of all I'd like to see separate bidding for those traffic streams, too.

justageek




msg:1323663
 7:05 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

No matter how it's done, I'd like the ability to opt in or out separately from content and search.

I agree 100 percent with you on that. I was just trying to make the point that it can and does work well when done right and it shouldn't automatically be dismissed :-)

JAG

eWhisper




msg:1323664
 7:07 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

If AdWords goes about this the same way OV did, expect to see a lot of publishers drop content advertising.

This should be opt-in like content is, and not forced upon advertisers. If it is forced, I for one will drop content immediately.

europeforvisitors




msg:1323665
 7:47 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

For me, that is not opt-in. If you want me to be accurate, read double opt-in where I wrote opt-in. That means that users voluntarily confirmed their subscription e-mail address by the means of a message that is sent to them with unique links to confirm the subscription.

Unfortunately, not all big companies define "opt-in" that way. I can remember when, a few years ago, some poor guy was subscribed to a hundred or more About.com newsletters by someone who had it in for him, just because the company didn't have a confirmation step. And let's face it: Once a user is subscribed to a newsletter, unsubscribing doesn't always work. (I can think of any number of cases where my own unsubscribe requests have been ignored.)

If AdWords goes about this the same way OV did, expect to see a lot of publishers drop content advertising. This should be opt-in like content is, and not forced upon advertisers. If it is forced, I for one will drop content immediately.

I'd hope that Google would be smart enough to implement it as a separate feature instead of just bundling it under "content ads." With luck, Google will offer advertisers more control over ad placement (not less) as time goes by.

Jenstar




msg:1323666
 8:03 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

E-newsletters will be and those usually do not have privacy concerns but even then that can be overcome.

If ads are targeting email in your personal email account, and Google somehow has to know what that is about, people will start screaming adware pretty fast. Newsletters are still sent to a personal email account, not something that is posted on the web for the whole world to see.

There would need to be something in place where ads are pre-targeted to an ezine, so there are not privacy issues. And like europeforvisitors said, there is huge potential for adsense spamming.

It would be telling to see who AdSense is testing this with, and see how it works. Until we know for certain, there will be a lot of speculation of what could and couldn't happen with email based newsletter ads.

justageek




msg:1323667
 8:29 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

Newsletters are still sent to a personal email account, not something that is posted on the web for the whole world to see.

Very true that they go to a personal account but before they ever leave the distributer the contents are well known. That's how the inventory is sold today. There are, or were last time I checked, tens of thousands of e-newsletters in the MINS database. MINS breaks everything down for the agencies to use and the creative gets shoved in the e-newsletters when the deals are made.

There would need to be something in place where ads are pre-targeted to an ezine, so there are not privacy issues. And like europeforvisitors said, there is huge potential for adsense spamming.

Again, see post number 5.

Until we know for certain, there will be a lot of speculation of what could and couldn't happen with email based newsletter ads.

This practice has been around for a good many years and it's a pretty stable and well controlled way to advertise. Contextually relevant ads have been inserted into e-newsletters for at least 5 years. If Google made the same mistakes it did with AdSense and didn't apply what the industry already knows then yes, there would be problems.

JAG

Jenstar




msg:1323668
 8:38 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

If the newsletter is not in any database, there definitely is the potential for spamming if the ads are inserted directly into an emailed newsletter. The potential for publishers to pick and choose high money keywords would cause many to opt-out of AdSense completely, if Adwords doesn't have an option for advertisers to opt out of all email campaigns. If they get lumped together, I believe there would be a large drop in the number of advertisers who are not willing to see their ads in email, and are thus forced to opt out of all AdSense content sites completely. They would have to differentiate them for the success of the program.

justageek




msg:1323669
 8:49 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

If the newsletter is not in any database, there definitely is the potential for spamming if the ads are inserted directly into an emailed newsletter. The potential for publishers to pick and choose high money keywords would cause many to opt-out of AdSense completely, if Adwords doesn't have an option for advertisers to opt out of all email campaigns.

You're kinda right. MINS is not a database of e-newsletter content but rather a database that describes e-newsletters. This is what all the agencies use to find out where to place ads. They look at MINS then contact the publisher. They tell the publisher they have an advertiser and what is to be advertised. The publisher then agrees to it or not. If they do then the final e-newsletter is sent back to the agency for advertiser approval. It is only at this point of acceptance that the e-newsletter can be sent out. Once everyone agrees to everything. That what I mean by industry standards and if Google chooses to ignore them. If they follow the standards then it is a good option.

But like I also said before, this has been around for a number of years and not really accepted as the first choice. It is because of folks like MINS that enable the e-newsletter publishers to get top dollar for a full e-newsletter sponsorship. It is extremely hard to get an e-newsletter publisher to accept anything but a cpm deal.

JAG

mlemos




msg:1323670
 9:02 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

Unfortunately, not all big companies define "opt-in" that way. I can remember when, a few years ago, some poor guy was subscribed to a hundred or more About.com newsletters by someone who had it in for him, just because the company didn't have a confirmation step. And let's face it: Once a user is subscribed to a newsletter, unsubscribing doesn't always work. (I can think of any number of cases where my own unsubscribe requests have been ignored.)

All Google has to do is to rule out publishers that do not the confirmation step to become subscriber, regardless if the publisher is big or small. Actually that would motivate publishers to get their subscriptions act together, or else they would not get any ad money from Google ads.

justageek




msg:1323671
 10:12 pm on Jan 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

Actually that would motivate publishers to get their subscriptions act together, or else they would not get any ad money from Google ads.

Another interesting motivator that came of doing this was the residual effect. I know one group that does this and one of the publishers archives their newsletters and clicks have come from them for years now because people read the old e-newsletters on the site :-)

So, if Google does then be sure to archive your e-newsletters if you don't do it now.

JAG

Mauricio




msg:1323672
 9:12 am on Jan 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

Don't forget the technical issues.

Outlook Express 6 and most web based email providers don't allow javascript execution by default. I supose another email clients works the same way.

This 66 message thread spans 3 pages: 66 ( [1] 2 3 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved