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This 79 message thread spans 3 pages: 79 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
Do you intend to sell your AdSense business?
Or pass it on to children etc?
OptiRex



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 1:30 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hopefully I am being a bit premature here however I do know that there are quite a few older members than myself, I'm 54.

Let's consider all things being equal and that AdSense remains the market leader and that the AdSense style, or the new unknown AdSense baby advertising format, is here for quite some time.

Do you intend retiring or simply keep reaping the rewards you have sown leaving your relatives to sort out the problem after you have died?

Maybe you have considered selling the site as a "going concern"? The value is obviously what someone else is prepared to pay.

Do you have any children, relations or employees who could or even would take over?

On a further note, just how would the Tax authorities value such a business for death duties etc?

Here's a suggesting for a new business venture. Commissions gladly received for the idea:-)

A site selling established and provable AdSense businesses! Does this exist outside of the ebay trashy stuff?

Me?

I'm looking to progress my AdSense sites over the next couple of years well into the $00,000.00 per month, sell up all my UK assets except for the family home and move to somewhere nice and temperate but continue with the AdSense as my pension since the UK government sure as hell ain't going to give me anything worth having!

Where? I haven't decided yet. I'd better ask EFV:-)

Damn, is there an IslandsForVistors?

 

mzanzig

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 1:40 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Cape Town or Garden route is probably a place worth looking at. Very attractive real estate prices, multi-cultural, excellent weather, English spoken... And your buying power is very good compared to UK.

Have a look at Knysna. Excellent place, very peaceful.

Err, yes, my wife would get the site and the monthly earnings should I pass away. I hope I have still some time left (I'm 40) though. I think the taxman would value the business based on past income.

21_blue

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 1:46 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

I can't see anyone paying what I think the site is worth - I value it not just for the lump sum equivalent that would provide that level of income, but also because it is a growing site with potential.

Therefore, my exit strategy (should I decide I want one) is to pass the business on to my kids. However, if I'm still able to type when I'm 97, and if Google Adsense is still going then, I may just retain an involvement.

Perhaps I should start work now on a website that reminisces about "the good old days" when one only had MFAs and SmartPricing to contend with.

celgins

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 1:49 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Well... my site is an online magazine, so it's the perfect entity to sell for a nice profit.

Not sure if anyone would be willing to pay what I think it's worth either, but I will surely try!

Won't be for a while though. It's my "baby" and I want to see if grow for a few more years.

ann

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ann us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 2:06 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Solved that problem in 97. My son buys the domain names, hosts them for free and I retain all ownership of contents and design...they are mine until I die then they will simply be his. No fuss, no muss, no mess :)

We have a high level of trust that started when he was born and he's not disappointed me yet, at least in that area....;)

I am 70 now so hopefully I will still be typing and creating pages at 102, LOL

Ann

TheDonster

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 2:14 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've thought about this too many times especially since I've discovered AS. My site sells unique widgets and the revenue generated by AS is more than our sales. The site has an historical value to it so when I'm on my deathbed, I'll just remove the purchase buttons on each page and voila, instant historical gallery site. The corporation I formed has my wife listed as VP so all funds will continue to go to the company bank account (if they can ever get this stupid CDN payment straightened out!). I'll probably hire someone from this board to do maintenance ;-)

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 2:15 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

I doubt if an "AdSense business" is worth much. Based on other threads about Website valuation, I'd guess that a site which relies mostly on AdSense revenues would be worth a few months' earnings at best.

If you're serious about building a site or sits that you can sell or pass along to the next generation, you should be thinking about:

- A site with content of intrinsic value that can be monetized in various ways (not just with one potentially fickle revenue stream); or...

- An e-commerce or service business that fills a unique niche and has a solid base of customers or clients.

humblebeginnings

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 2:31 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

The trouble with an online business is that often only the original founder has the knowledge and experience to:

- create or obtain proper content;
- deal with technical issues (concerning design, html, php, uploading files, webhosting, etcetera),
- manage the accounts (Adsense, Adwords, YPN, CJ, whatever);
- respond to major changes that influence the business-model (Adsense/Adwords algo updates, important TOS changes, new competitors entering the market);
- develop a vision of the future of the business;
- etcetera, etcetera.

My Adsense activities are modest compared to most of the other WW senior members, nonetheless my activities are showing signs of becoming a "business". If I were to pass my "business" on to someone else, be it my wife, a family member or a friend, I have no clue where to start. Most of the people I know would probably not even understand what this post is about. An extra "handicap" is that most of my sites are in English and that most of the people I know are probably not capable of writing articles in English...

BTW, if someone wanted to buy my business, I probably wouldn't do it. I know the earnings potential, and someone else would not see that, and thus offer me far too little money. And even if I sold my business if the price were right, then what? I love what I am doing and just don't want to stop. So I probably would use the money to build a new Adsense business all over again;-)

OptiRex



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 2:43 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Taking on board EFV and HB comments, what does this say about the Google Adsense concept if our sites qualify as:

I doubt if an "AdSense business" is worth much.

often only the original founder has the knowledge and experience

I have to ask why we are all working so hard to create something that some perceive as "not having great value" (my description)?

Surely the whole purpose for many here is to build a business constructed upon a pretty solid foundation?

Heck, if someone came to me and showed me 24 months of provable AdSense income increasing from say $500 to $10,000 per month, then I'd be very rapidly interested.

I'm happy to see that many of us still reckon we'll be compus mentis when we're old and even greyer:-)

ken_b

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 2:51 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

An "AdSense Business"?

When a publisher sees Adsense as their "business" any attempt at serious conversation is probably an exercise in frustration and futility.

Hobbs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member hobbs us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 3:16 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Forget about selling your AdSense site as a business, you sell the earning potential of a popular website with solid statistics, this is where the value is, AdSense or no AdSense.

As for 30 years from now, I am hoping that the interface will not need much hand typing, mouse control or re-installing Windows!

As for who runs it when I signup with the great Google in the sky, I think my son or wife would want to keep the money going so probably they'll dive in or hire someone to do it.

Moosetick

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 3:20 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have to ask why we are all working so hard to create something that some perceive as "not having great value" (my description)?

Perhaps running an Adsense business is like being a doctor. You have all the required knowlege to make you office work and continue. When you die/retire/leave that knowlege goes with you. The nurses aren't going to be able to continue the business without you.

Many businesses do well while the founder runs the place but as soon as he/she leaves the new people drive it into the ground because they don't understand the many intricicies required to keep things profitable. That doesn't mean it is in vain. It just means that you can likely only count on the business doing well while you are an active participant. That work has value like any other work. It just may not be stored value in the form of monetizable equity in the business.

Hobbs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member hobbs us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 3:31 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

You can always leave a link to this forum in your will ;-)

OptiRex



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 3:36 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

You have all the required knowlege to make you office work and continue. When you die/retire/leave that knowlege goes with you.

But surely that is what a competent webmaster does?

I agree that many of us AdSensers have more knowledge than the "average" webmaster however, surely, all of us should have a good knowledge of directory structure and what does and does not work to be able to take on another AdSense business without too many complications?

Granted the current information that EFV posts is completely different to my evergreen information thereby making his site much more difficult to take over, but surely it would be of quite a lot of interest to another travel site individual or specialist magazine?

My problem is finding someone who actually wants to work with computers and learn coding correctly!

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 3:37 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

That doesn't mean it is in vain. It just means that you can likely only count on the business doing well while you are an active participant. That work has value like any other work. It just may not be stored value in the form of monetizable equity in the business.

A comparable example in the offline world would be Fielding's Guide to Europe, which was one of the leading American travel guidebooks from the late 1950s into the 1970s or early 1980s. Temple Fielding had a distinctive voice and style, and after he died, so did his annual guidebook. His personal brand was very personal, and it wasn't worth much without his personality.

humblebeginnings

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 4:24 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)


An "AdSense Business"?
When a publisher sees Adsense as their "business" any attempt at serious conversation is probably an exercise in frustration and futility.

Ken, I think I do not fully understand you.
I am sure that many of us have a true Adsense "business".

Business, as in
- Working 80 hours a week
- Hiring folks to write content or help you out with technical stuff
- Making expenses and having tax issues
- Trying to outsmart competitors
- Travelling the world to be able to create your products and services
- Making loads of cash that you wouldn't get at a 9-5

Is this evidence for Adsense as a serious business, or is this evidence that a serious conversation is not possible?;-)

Kid_A

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 4:24 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

We're already preparing for this. I renamed the company with a "friendly" name, a generic branding thing, so its easier to sell... you know, so its' not "(My Name) Interactive" or anything. I've taken a class in Recruitment and Selection, my wife and partner is taking a course in Employee Training and Development, so now we can hire and develop employees. We're working to reverse engineer what I do that makes the site successful - and make me more efficient. We're pushing to grow revenue this year to get to a point where we can hire people at least part-time, and eventually full-time - to replace what I do completely, so I can continue to grow into other website types and diversify.

I don't see AdSense itself as "stable enough" past the next 5 years - even that may be a little ambitious. AdSense supports us now, but Yahoo and MSN are out there and growing into this space. Contextual ads of one sort or the other ARE the future in all media, as the media develops. Even if all that fails I think the site(s) we are building now can serve as a launchpad for other projects.

When my kids are old enough - 8 or 9, when they can read enough to help out - they will be brought into the business, to help out a little here and there. I'll help them fund and develop their own sites. They are already interested to some extent.

I don't have firm plans to sell the business at any particular point, but rather to be making $500,000 a year NET within 10 years. It's a big target considering what we're making now, but its definitely possible (Hellooooo Markus! And others out there.) As long as I can keep adapting the business - which should be made up of multiple different websites by that time - I'll keep it. I intend to work ON and not IN my business within the next few years. Also, when we hit that revenue point - even when we get close to that revenue point - we'll be able to snap up or start up new businesses, or invest in the current ones.

That's my 10 year plan, which I just started this January. Talk to me in 2 or 3 years to see how its going.

Oh, specifically regarding the children: I would look seriously at selling at least part of the business to the kids. Have them use the revenue from it to pay me back, etc. It depends on how interested they are, what their own projects are doing, and so on. I'd love to at least hire them for a time, but we are already focussing very much on having them be business owners themselves. It's the only way to be in this world.

21_blue

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 5:04 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Kid_A wrote:
Oh, specifically regarding the children: I would look seriously at selling at least part of the business to the kids.

"Selling" to the kids? Oh, Ebeneezer, where is the spirit of Christmas yet to come? :-)

Besides, that's very, very bad tax planning.

OptiRex



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 5:10 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Interesting post Kid_A

It depends on how interested they are, what their own projects are doing, and so on.

I have this feeling that my kids have had so much computer associated stuff rammed down their throats from school and myself that they just do not want to know right now and do not want to know of the benefits the earnings derive.

Is that my fault for working so many years from home 80-100 hours per week? Probably, however all what I've created wouldn't exist now if I had not done so.

Fortunately I do have some younger people very keen to come into the business since they are interested in both the bricks and mortar and the web site AdSense and trade informational sectors of the business.

The strangest thing is that they are close friends of my kids!

Maybe they can see the trees for the wood since they're not so closely attached to it?

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 6:01 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

When my kids are old enough - 8 or 9, when they can read enough to help out - they will be brought into the business, to help out a little here and there.

Our 19-year-old son is now writing for our mom-and-pop site, so one of these days maybe we'll have a mom-and-pop-and-son business. (He's good--at least as good as I was at his age.)

ken_b

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 6:01 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Is this evidence for Adsense as a serious business, ...

No.

It's evidence that the publisher is working hard at his/her publishing business.

Adsense may be (hopefully only part of) the income source for that publishing business, but the business is publishing.

21_blue

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 6:21 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

ken_b wrote:
Adsense may be (hopefully only part of) the income source for that publishing business, but the business is publishing.

6 months ago I'd have agreed with this. But I've since come to the view that it's OK for Adsense to be the main or only source of income for a business, providing the risks of that are recognised and managed. There are many 'real' businesses that are set up to serve a single client. This isn't to play down the value of diversification, but to say that a single-source business can be viable.

Also, whilst the focus on 'Adsense' rather than 'publishing' can lead to the sort of trashy sites we sometimes discuss in this forum, for a bona fide publisher such an emphasis can be profitable. Some of the ideas we are now working on that were sparked by Markus' million-dollar thread aren't publishing as such, they are more about providing a service. What Markus' thread did was make us think outside the pure publishing box and assess other ways that we could leverage advertising revenue from Adsense.

Of course, that strategy does mean that we will be providing 'a service' and not just pages full of Adsense ads, but at the end of the day most business operate by looking at ways they can increase their revenue. So in that sense we are all in the business of 'making money' - publishing and Adsense are simply two of the vehicles we use for getting there.

Kid_A

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 6:40 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Selling" to the kids? Oh, Ebeneezer, where is the spirit of Christmas yet to come? :-)

Besides, that's very, very bad tax planning.

You want to talk bad ideas, hand over something this big to your kids without them having any stake in it. If they're paying for it, they'll appreciate it. I'm not saying we won't give them a better deal than most - of course we will! No or low downpayment, low interest, etc. But you just don't have the same appreciation for things that are free.

I know firsthand. My parents have given us things for free. My Mom-in-law gives us loans. I thought it was a little strange at first, but we've learned and grown so much more from what my Mom in Law has done for us than we ever did from my parents. And you don't feel so "obligated" as when something gives you something for free. Plus getting things for free robs you of your pride. And so on.

As for tax planning, sure, it could well be bad tax planning. I don't have enough details to approach my accountant/business advisor to lay out a plan. It's too far away to bother about. Ramp up revenue is the only thing I need to concentrate on now.

I will relent and add this: as we ramp up and get into a truly nasty tax zone I will have my accountant in regularly... I know a couple that bought a $400k business, and didn't tell their accountant 'til the end of the year - apparently they missed out on a lot doing so.

Moosetick

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 6:47 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

humblebeginnings, while you may work 80 hours a week and do all that other stuff, many will still consider an "adsense business" not on the same level as other (b&m) types of business. Probably most businesses that are internet based fall into that category.

There are some people makeing a nice living on eBay. They are running businesses selling though eBay and doing well. They spend 80 hours+ per week. They constantly are looking for deals on products. They are trying to outsmart their competition. They deal with tax issues. They do everything you listed and more. Still, many don't consider that a real business.

I suspect a lot of that perception has to do with the belief that a 12 year old girl can put up a website/sell junk on eBay. If they can do it then it can't be that hard and therefore doesn't qualify as a "real business"

Kid_A

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 6:48 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have this feeling that my kids have had so much computer associated stuff rammed down their throats from school and myself that they just do not want to know right now and do not want to know of the benefits the earnings derive.

Is that my fault for working so many years from home 80-100 hours per week? Probably, however all what I've created wouldn't exist now if I had not done so.

This is something we're already NOT doing. I'm NOT spending that long on the business, although I'm up to 6-8 hours a day fairly regularly now. Yes, it means our growth is slower, but my family relationship is top notch, and the kids *like* the business. They love that I can go swimming with them on a Wednesday afternoon. And that's why I think they already want to be part of the business, at times. That's something they should appreciate even more as they get older.

In fact, if anything I've spent too much family time at the cost of the business.

EFV - that's fantastic that your 19 year old is already writing... I was part of a Mom and Pop and Son business at one time, and frankly it was wonderful. Taught me a sense of independence, made me closer with my folks. I didn't want to carry on the business because it was a dying industry. And publishing is actually more lucrative with less work. :-) Turns out I was right - they sold out, and about 2 years later the bottom of the industry dropped, and their business has lost between 1/3-1/2 its value. Whew.

Hobbs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member hobbs us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 7:07 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

On bringing in the family: I recently bought a good for kids domain name, and enticed my wife into adopting the project for the sole propose of her dragging our young son in with her & her teaching him how to build and manage a web site with my help, that was my 2 birds / one stone shot, I will support them till they start reaping rewards and can stand on their own, if all works according to plan, I should easily have them branch into my site and help out which is something my wife has been refusing so far on account of her being an internet widow with my 18h/day schedule, tricky? Yes, but all for a good cause.

21_blue

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 7:25 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Kid_A wrote:
You want to talk bad ideas, hand over something this big to your kids without them having any stake in it.

I agree that handing something big to your kids where there is no stake is another bad idea. But one bad idea does not justify another; there are plenty of ways to get your kids to "invest" of themselves without selling it to them, and plenty of examples of people who have been successful in doing it.

Regarding tax advice, I spent an hour with a tax expert 5 years ago to discuss some other projects/investments I was setting up in relation to my kids. It was the best hour I've ever spent, and I'm glad I did even before I set the business up because a couple of simple decisions then cost nothing, but would have cost a lot more later and will save oodles of tax in the future.

It's never too early to get tax advice. Some people even start tax planning between conception and birth. Though, I haven't yet met anyone who justified sex on the basis that it would be tax-beneficial in the long run. :-))

david_uk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 7:39 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

I already did pass my adsense business over - to my wife!

I have a full time job, and she is currently at home. That way we can use up her tax allowances, and make modest contibutions to NI / pension plan.

My wife has no idea how to construct or run a website. She just likes to have the money. I guess if I got hit by a truck tomorrow that she'd just let it run whilst the money came in, but stop paying the hosting when the income dwindled.

I don't know that it's worth anything as a sale despite the regular income. Maybe in a good few years my kids might like to get involved. Hopefully they will have built up their own portfolio of sites, and will take on mine at some point.

All assuming that adsense is around in a few years time of course.

cornwall

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 7:47 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'm looking to progress my AdSense sites over the next couple of years well into the $00,000.00 per month, sell up all my UK assets except for the family home and move to somewhere nice and temperate but continue with the AdSense as my pension since the UK government sure as hell ain't going to give me anything worth having!

You will never get the "value" of your AdSense web site on selling them. Let us say you are making $10,000 a year. You would have to get $125,000 for it in order to re-invest in bonds that at best are going to return say 8%

Putting it differently, are you really likely to sell a collection of sites returning you a modest $5000 a month for $750,000 - I think not

Afraid you are stuck with the AdSense sites in perpetuity if you want to keep the income :(

(On a personal not can recommend Spain for thattemperate place to live - I spend the 6 winter months there, toning up my web sites, and the 6 summer months in Cornwall)

humblebeginnings

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13796 posted 7:48 pm on May 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Moosetick (please sticky me to tell me what your nickname means, I have no clue;-)

while you may work 80 hours a week

I don't, I was merely pointing out that many of us do.
I have a (part-time) day time job and I work about 25 hrs a week on my own online "business".

many will still consider an "adsense business" not on the same level as other (b&m) types of business.

I understand, but that's mainly perception.
Fact of the matter is that most of us are so much involved in online publishing that passing our activities onto another person, is as difficult as doing the same thing with a traditional business...

BTW, if I would make 10k a month with Adsense I couldn't care less about what other people think of my business...

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