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This 77 message thread spans 3 pages: 77 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
Removed from program - now what?
the_nerd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 1:10 pm on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

I enjoyed christmas without the fear of getting kicked from adsense - that had happened a couple of days before.

No explanation from "The adsense team". Since I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything wrong someone else must have "helped" me.

I asked if there is some kind of a "probation period" or something I can do to come back - but just got some standard answer saying nothing.

Any experience here?

Then - I have a customer who wants me to run his complete web site - and he has agreed that I put Adsense on his pages. Since my account is closed, what can I do? Let him sign up for adsense and manage it for him?

 

ncw164x

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 1:24 pm on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you mangage it for him then your IP number will show, this could be the reason you lost it so he could loose adsense as well?

Compworld

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 1:28 pm on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Have him pull the code for you, and you implement the code in the site for him. Or, you can connect through a proxy server that would mask your IP address. It's your call.

CompWorld

ncw164x

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 1:47 pm on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hmm now that is a professional way of doing business

ncw164x

peterdaly

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 2:20 pm on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

AdSenseAdvisor probably isn't here today...so maybe this thread could use a bump next week.

AdSense needs to be better about:
1. Telling people why they were kicked out.
2. Telling them how they can get back in.

There are reasons why people should not be let in. If they blatently and knowingly break the rules they should be done.

That being said, it's not always clear here that people knowingly violate the TOS before getting kicked out. That makes the rest of us very nervous and not very trusting of Google.

I would love to see AdWordsAdvisor comment on this.

Blue_Fin

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 2:21 pm on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

What was the reason given in your termination notice?

irock

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 2:34 pm on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

You really got no warning from Adsense team?

the_nerd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 8:00 pm on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

You really got no warning from Adsense team?

there had been one about a month and a half ago. I offered them to look at my log files or whatever they want. They said it was not neccessary at this time and thanked for my cooperation.

What was the reason given in your termination notice?

There was no termination notice. I tried to log in to my account and it wasn't there anymore. I sent in a couple of emails asking what was wrong. Then I got an email saying there had been illegal actions (or something similar, forgot the exact wording) and that's why my acct. had been closed.

AdSense needs to be better about:
1. Telling people why they were kicked out.
2. Telling them how they can get back in.

100% d'accord. I'd like to know the reason. And I'd like to know who it was. So I can send him/her a 'thank you' card.

Hmm now that is a professional way of doing business
certainly not. The only way for me to get in is with a straight back and a nice "welcome back" from Google.

Visi

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 12:49 am on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

AdSense needs to be better about:
1. Telling people why they were kicked out.
2. Telling them how they can get back in

Well the letter stated the reasons as nerd pointed out.

How do you get back in? Others have been in this position on this board and have recomended a professional approach via emails with google. If they are not convinced...then you are not getting back in.

2oddSox

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 1:12 am on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

How do you get back in? Others have been in this position on this board and have recomended a professional approach via emails with google. If they are not convinced...then you are not getting back in.

Visi, have you heard of those who have been kicked getting back in again? I honestly can't recall reading about a happy ending, but I certainly hope there have been some. I think peterdaly was just commenting on the lack of information which seems to be around concerning the whole issue.

I for one would love to know if I ever got kicked that there was recourse and perhaps a way back in - whether that was by new websites, new IP ranges, moving house to a new country, or just walking around town with a false moustache and a fake name. But as far as I was aware, even with the courteous e-mails and professional manner of those who've been kicked, it always seemed to be doom and gloom.

2odd...

paul12345

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 1:25 am on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Don't forget Adsonar. I gave them my email address so I can receive information whenever it's available. I haven't heard anything yet. But this may be a solution for your problems the_nerd.

Visi

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 1:30 am on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

We have had previous posts regarding getting the "dreaded" email and resolution being reached.

I can not say that I disagree with Google's strategy on this issue however. Keep some fear and lack of information to keep the program "clean" It allows them to use some discretion in their TOS, and doesn't reveal detection methods. I think we all know that many would love to understand how/why they detect fraudulent activities so that reverse engineering principles can be applied.

Nerd I might suggest you remind google that initial "warning" letter was resolved?...perhaps their system didn't clear it?

TrafficL

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 2:20 am on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)


As I read this thread, my main concern becomes: is it really that easy for one competitor to kill another company's ability to generate revenue from Adsense? All they have to do is go around and start clicking their competitor's Adsense ads?

As someone who earns a lot of revenue from using Adsense in a completely legitimate way, that thought is very unnerving.

Also, as far as Google getting better at telling people why they were terminated, I used to run an affiliate program and Im sure they're having the same dilemma: if you tell cheaters why they got kicked out, you are basically helping them to regroup and cheat you better.

Compworld

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 2:24 am on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

NEver said it was a good way of doing business. I would never personally do it. But, he wanted options, and those are options, even though they are to the extreme.

CompWorld

the_nerd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 3:37 pm on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

@ CompWorld

Thanks, but I was looking for legitimate ways. I never cheated anyone so far (AFAIK) so I certainly will not start it just to create revenue for some SE.

Compworld

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 6:53 pm on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Never said yoiu should. Again, just displaying possible options for you to take. I would never suggest that road to take either. Cause, once they find out about the porxy (and eventally they will), you will be caught and possibly banned for life from Google.

CompWorld

jomaxx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jomaxx us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 7:50 pm on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Didn't you read that thread you started about your account being disabled? I think it's pretty clear what the problem was.

byrhtnoth

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 11:17 pm on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you're referring to the fact that their email to me may have been filtered, then, yes, I've read that.

Of course, that never explained what the "Invalid Clicks" problem was, merely the fact that not receiving the first warning could have been caused by my SpamFilter.

loanuniverse

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 4:05 am on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Jomaxx:

Are you sure you are talking about byrhtnoth's site? That thread seems to make reference to the original poster, which wasn't byrhtnoth.

Just wondering..........

jomaxx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jomaxx us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 5:56 am on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yep, I got confused because I saw his handle in that thread, but he didn't start it. Never mind.

NickCoons

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 8:05 am on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Is it just me, or does it seem to anyone else that "invalid clicks" shouldn't be a cause for termination? Obviously, Google can detect the invalid clicks, otherwise they wouldn't know to terminate the account, so why not simply invalidate those clicks and move on?

And even moving beyond that point, the only reason terminating an account would help maintain the integrity of their program was if they believed that the publisher himself was clicking on his own ads. In other words, if a random visitor (a competitor, or anyone else) was repeatedly clicking on ads, then terminating an account doesn't solve this problem. A compulsive ad-clicker can simply go somewhere else and click ads. By terminating an account, Google has not taken any action toward bettering their program.

So can someone (AdSenseAdvisor, perhaps?) explain to me why Google might think it makes sense to terminate an account because of invalid clicks?

ncw164x

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 9:31 am on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

As we all know everywhere we browse we leave a trail unless we are behind a proxy or using a program to surf anonymously, and when we first joined adsense google have our details from the login.

Now OK I have a static IP with the name of my site as the refer, I leave the same trail everywhere and if it came on top with me and my sites with invalid clicks I have got proof that it could not of been me with the fixed IP

This is my way of dealing with it and removing all doubt of a possible problem in the future

You can't have the cake and the cherry, hiding behind a rotating IP number and then not expect a possible problem when invalid clicks are reported on the same network

Think about it logically and the other persons point of view, if you are in business making money you do not have a hotmail or AOL account for you contact e-mail unless you have got something to hide. The same applies with your dialup.

ncw164x

tombola

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 9:35 am on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Is it just me, or does it seem to anyone else that "invalid clicks" shouldn't be a cause for termination?

Some members of this forum have reported abuse via clickbots, they contacted Google and Google told 'm not to worry. Therefore, I believe that Google might have the technology and expertise to determine the difference between invalid clicks and fraud.
If this is true, then "invalid clicks" is a polite term that should be translated as: "fraudulent clicks".

Jenstar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jenstar us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 9:43 am on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Obviously, Google can detect the invalid clicks, otherwise they wouldn't know to terminate the account, so why not simply invalidate those clicks and move on?

Google is going to cater to the paying advertiser, and there is a delay from the time clicks are charged to the advertiser (and often triggering a payment) to the time when the clicks are refunded due to fraud, which can be up to a month later. If AdSense becomes rife with fraudulent clicks, even if they are later refunded to the advertiser, the effects could be great for publishers who depend on this income.

The more advertisers grumble about fraudulent clicks coming from AdSense sites, particularly on open forums, blogs, articles etc where other advertisers read, the more advertisers will opt-out of showing their ads on content sites. And that will affect all publishers with lower CTR and a higher liklihood of showing PSAs due to lack of ads from advertisers opting out.

There have been a few posts recently in the Adwords forum where advertisers were discussing how well AdSense traffic is working for them. But that could quickly change if there is a higher incidence of fraudulent clicks, even if they are being refunded later. That could be a significant amount of immediate lost revenue for non-converting traffic to the advertiser.

PatrickDeese

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 4:38 pm on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

"Invalid clicks" could mean a lot of things, and I think I have seen them apply this reason to sites that are using illegitimate methods to target adsense adverts (such as displaying adsense in a frame with the only text in the frame being high dollar keywords).

Those would be classified as "invalid clicks" as well, but not in the "my competitor sabotaged me" sense.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 5:03 pm on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

So can someone (AdSenseAdvisor, perhaps?) explain to me why Google might think it makes sense to terminate an account because of invalid clicks?

Reassuring advertisers has already been mentioned. Also, if there's no punishment for fraudulent clicks, there's no incentive for shady publishers to behave themselves. They can just try out the latest clickbot program, for example, with nothing to lose if they get caught.

Of course, publishers aren't the only source of invalid clicks, and they may not even be the major source. Competitors--or, just as likely, advertisers' competitors--may their own reasons for clicking on ads. That's why Google needs to use (and apparently does use) human judgment when deciding whether to disable an account for invalid clicks. For what it's worth, a number of us have received the "invalid clicks" e-mail, and we're still here--probably because Google has reviewed our sites and our account histories and decided that the likelihood of our being guilty of fraudulent clicking is extremely low.

I'd guess that any number of factors may play a role in whether an account is disabled or closed because of invalid clicks. For example, Google may consider:

1) How long the publisher has been in the program. (A publisher who's just AdSense and is already running up invalid clicks is more likely to set off alarm bells than an established participant with a clean record.)

2) The nature of the site and its audience. (Google might feel that certain types of sites are likely to create more problems than they're worth: e.g., forums on controversial topics that may invite retaliatory clicking. Such a site might be accepted into the program, but it wouldn't necessarily receive the benefit of the doubt if a click war ensued.)

3) The revenues generated by the site. (The higher a site's revenues, the more Google can justify the cost of investigating questionable clicks when they occur.)

4) Whether the publisher is a "high-maintenance" publisher (someone who frequently bombards AdSense support with questions) or a publisher who contributes very little to administrative overhead.

the_nerd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 7:01 pm on Jan 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

OK, now I know what was wrong:

My site consists of auto-generated garbage and adsense on it. Ah, yes and I told my grandma to click on it like a mad-woman. And I put some flashing signs on the pages with "pls visit our sponsors".

And then I sent lots of emails to the support team pretending I'm innocent.

Guys, I don't think they are idiots out there.

But some other thoughts surfaced today: did my other revenue on the site change? Yes, it did. The site was selling more from christmas until today than it did before on a normal workday. I might have lost more through the whole procedure than I did win.

Can I replace those ads by something else? Probably. Dealers who sell their products through my website called and asked why the ads are gone - they had been bidding up a couple of keywords just to get their ads onto my site. I'll give them a chance to book those ads directly with me. This way I can control who buys the ads and keep the visitors on my portal.

NickCoons

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 12:24 am on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

ncw164x,

<You can't have the cake and the cherry, hiding behind a rotating IP number and then not expect a possible problem when invalid clicks are reported on the same network

Think about it logically and the other persons point of view, if you are in business making money you do not have a hotmail or AOL account for you contact e-mail unless you have got something to hide. The same applies with your dialup.>

I disagree with this way of thinking. Just because I am not making certain information available to the rest of the world doesn't mean I have something to hide, it simply means that I don't believe others are trustworthy. A webserver, and the company that runs it, has no business knowing my IP address other than to answer my request for content. Just because they are a "company" doesn't mean that I trust them with my information, just like I don't trust the people in government with information. The people in any given company or government can be just as scumbag-like as any other individual, and there's no reason someone should have my information that they don't need.

I'm not paranoid, and I don't really care if others have my IP address, but to say that someone protects their personal information because they're hiding something sounds ridiculous to me.

tombola,

<Therefore, I believe that Google might have the technology and expertise to determine the difference between invalid clicks and fraud.>

europeforvisitors,

<Reassuring advertisers has already been mentioned. Also, if there's no punishment for fraudulent clicks, there's no incentive for shady publishers to behave themselves. They can just try out the latest clickbot program, for example, with nothing to lose if they get caught.>

Don't get me wrong here.. I'm not saying that publishers should be able to artificially (and wrongly) raise their revenue by cheating the system, and I do think they should be terminated for that.

Jenstar,

<Google is going to cater to the paying advertiser, and there is a delay from the time clicks are charged to the advertiser (and often triggering a payment) to the time when the clicks are refunded due to fraud, which can be up to a month later. If AdSense becomes rife with fraudulent clicks, even if they are later refunded to the advertiser, the effects could be great for publishers who depend on this income.>

I don't disagree.. and I'm not saying that invalid clicks is not a real issue. I am simply trying to understand how terminating a publisher's account is the solution to the problem.

The culprit is the one that created the fraudulent clicks, invalid clicks, or whatever they're being called; not the publisher (unless the publisher caused the clicks).

Granted, I have no statistics. For instance, I don't know how many people who get kicked out of AdSense broke the TOS by showing content they shouldn't have, putting AdSense on pages they shouldn't have, or had their circle of friends clicking on their ads. I have none of that information.. so I don't know, maybe this isn't an issue and thus far whenever Google has terminated an AdSense account it has always been just.

But if this is not the case, and an account was terminated by Joe User decided it would be fun to click on a single ad 100 times in three minutes, then why would terminating the publisher's account be the solution? First, this does not stop Joe User from finding another AdSense-enabled site and doing the same thing. Second, the publisher has no way to enforce this, because we have no way of knowing that Joe User is clicking ads, so there is nothing we can do about it. It sounds akin to imprisoning a rape victim to help reduce rape (i.e. this person is locked away, so they can no longer be raped), and not doing anything to the person who committed the crime.

How about making it so the fraudulent clicker's IP address is no longer served ads no matter which publisher's site they visit? This is the person who should no longer be able to click on ads and inflict damage, not the publisher, who is unable to do anything about it even if he's aware of the problem.

I have not been kicked out of AdSense, nor have I been warned by Google or have any reason to believe my account would ever be terminated. I'm just trying to understand the logic behind their "solution."

ncw164x

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 12:45 am on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>It'll just be nice to hold in my hands for the first time :-).
[webmasterworld.com...]
message #7

Yes it does feel nice holding a cheque with the name google on it so therefore you show them respect and

"Never bite the hand that feeds you"

ncw164x

NickCoons

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1354 posted 1:10 am on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

ncw164x,

<Yes it does feel nice holding a cheque with the name google on it so therefore you show them respect and

"Never bite the hand that feeds you">

"Biting" and "questioning" or two totally different things. Please illustrate where I have done anything that could be construed as "biting" Google.

This 77 message thread spans 3 pages: 77 ( [1] 2 3 > >
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