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Google AdSense Forum

This 47 message thread spans 2 pages: 47 ( [1] 2 > >     
Blocking Advertisers Waste of Time
seen em round the world
incrediBILL




msg:1347235
 5:25 am on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

If you subscribe to the witch hunt theories of wasting your time to block advertisers which does make some sense at a basic level, wait until you travel or use proxies based in various states to view your ads.

The ads I saw for 10 days in Florida were barely comparable to what I saw in California and when I got home I saw the same old ads again.

The point of this is unless you check ads in every state and every country that you get traffic from you're just wasting your time chasing ads that YOU SEE from your desktop, totally worthless except in your local area.

You have to break out of your local thinking and skip the AdSense Preview tool too, think of Google AdSense as the worldwide dynamic beast that it is and you're only seeing a small snapshot of the global ads being shown to visitors.

Heck, you can only block 200 so it's a waste of time as there could be 200 in every state.

Don't get me wrong, I blocked about 20 of the most vile ads I've ever seen so I do agree with blocking ads, but chasing bad ads is a global adventure that you would be best served by working on your site and not wasting time chasing as it's an endless chase, you cannot win a global confrontation that happens daily on your website.

The ads will die if they don't pay well, that's the algorithm making the call as only the best paying stay on the network according to Google so let it do it's job and build your site.

 

Key_Master




msg:1347236
 5:48 am on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

You don't need to travel the world or use proxies to find out what your visitors are clicking on- a good AdSense tracker does the job quite well. If you were tracking these clicks you would find that the same old ads are being clicked on by visitors from all over the world.

Yes, there are geo targeted advertisements, mostly from local businesses, but the bread and butter ads are targeted globally. So I would partially disagree with your assessment that blocking MFA are a waste of time. I say partially because if the Google algorithm was as great as you think it is, scummy ads wouldn't be displayed in the first place and we wouldn't have to waste time blocking them ourselves.

jetteroheller




msg:1347237
 6:11 am on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

My main income is the German area.

So I just have to check with the preview tool Austria Germany Switzerland.

With about 150 in the URL filter, I see now only good ads appearing on my sites.

david_uk




msg:1347238
 6:15 am on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

It's been my experience that genuine ads will mostly target for where their customers are, but MFA's adopt a splatter gun approach and target worldwide. Hence I tend to see the same MFA's in the US via a proxy as I do here.

I agree that in this respect, the preview tool is not useful for blocking on the grounds that it shows you a selection based on the targeting algo, and that selection often shows ads that have never been / never will be seen on your site, and have been blocked already. I believe you can easily clog up your filter with 200 ads that will never be shown quite easily. I block only ones that I see that are persistant. Many ads are seen just the once only.

I'd also agree that the targeting algo is seriously flawed in placing these ads in the first place.

mzanzig




msg:1347239
 7:06 am on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I also am conviced that MFAs are taking the splatter gun approach David mentioned. Geotargeting just limits their reach, and requires additional effort to maintain. So why would a MFA want to do that?

For example, that Canadian company with their 20,000+ domains. They are advertising -among many others- the following landing pages - each with its own landing page and URL, of course:

(name-of-area)directory.com
(name-of-area)widget1directory.com
(name-of-area)widget2directory.com
just(name-of-area)widgets.com
only(name-of-area)widgets.com

and so on, and so on... Of course, the landing page is stuffed with PPC redirects.

I have currently just 17 of their URLs in my filter list, but I guess they are hiding somewhere on almost every single topic of my sites, targeting all areas and keywords you can think of.

Google: Exactly that's why we need a "block all ads from this advertiser" feature. How can we, equipped with a filter list of 200, efficiently remove this crap?

foxtunes




msg:1347240
 8:13 am on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'm based in the europe, but most of my traffic is Canadian/U.S based.

I had no idea what was showing in the U.S until I used the preview tool. I then found dozens of mfa sites or sites running yahoo ads (MFY), the headlines of these ads were perfectly targeted to the page, but the payouts were minimal.

I added them to my filter list, and since then I'm seeing mostly blue chip companies in the ads.

Earnings up 35 percent.

guru5571




msg:1347241
 11:27 am on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

As I mentioned in a related thread. My niche is fairly broad and new MFAs continued to replace the ones I banned. After spending a good amount of time on it for a week, I finally gave up. I figure if G really wants to fight this, they will give us some decent tools. Otherwise it's like trying to hold back the tide.

mzanzig




msg:1347242
 12:15 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

guru,

Otherwise it's like trying to hold back the tide.

Well, if you reach the limit of your filter, it is a good idea to weed out MFAs from the most important pages for the most important countries. Do a list like this:

Page with most adviews
-> Country with most hits to this page
-> Country with 2nd most hits to this page
-> Country with 3rd most hits to this page

Page with 2nd most adviews
-> Country with most hits to this page
-> Country with 2nd most hits to this page
-> Country with 3rd most hits to this page

Page with 3rd most adviews
-> Country with most hits to this page
-> Country with 2nd most hits to this page
-> Country with 3rd most hits to this page

(and so on, and so on)

The first three countries typically cover 60% of the pageviews (for me, these are coming from US, UK, and Canada).

If you block strictly based on this, some of your visitors may still see some MFAs somewhere in your site (and you won't be able to do anything about it until we get the "block all ads from this advertsiers feature"), but the majority of your pages will not show MFAs for your most important users.

In other words: I don't care about an MFA being displayed to 5 users in Elbonia for some obscure content, but I do care about MFAs being displayed to 1000s of users from the US every single day.

I think it's still better to block like this than to do nothing at all.

Iguana




msg:1347243
 12:23 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I just banned a few urls to get rid of ads for Drug Detection systems, Work your way out of debt, and Credit cards. Now I am getting Guide to Massage Schools, travel insurance, gas detection systems, cooker hoods, Free Roulette System, and cycle parts. I'd prefer to have those rubbish ebay and MFA ones back on now - so I'm clearing my banned list.

Google, it's a music site! It doesn't have any words related to those ads!

21_blue




msg:1347244
 12:38 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

incrediBill wrote:
you would be best served by working on your site and not wasting time chasing... The ads will die if they don't pay well

I agreed with all that you said, until this point. The ads may have a low epc, but they will also have a high CTR. So they won't just die, in fact, they may suppress your site's smartprice and make it even more likely that they can take over. So, if it is a choice between doing nothing and blocking, there is some merit in blocking.

However, imho there is a third way, which is to price MFA ads off the page by maintaining a high CTR for well paying ads and to restrict opportunities for low MFA ads to appear on your site. This gets rid of MFAs not by the negative strategy of blocking them, but by the positive strategy of putting something better in their place so they don't get a look in. It requires things like:

  • analysis on a page-by-page basis (at least, for the 200 most popular pages, numbers limited by the channel limit)
  • careful redesign of those pages that are the first to get hit by MFAs before they spread to the rest of the site
  • increasing site stickability so that surfers are far more likely to find a high-paying, relevant page
  • the optimisation of page content so that each page will have an inherently higher smartprice due to well-targeted content

This is a much more sophisticated approach than blocking. It won't satisfy those who either want to take a single site-wide approach or vent their spleen by hanging the MFAers. But ultimately it will involve less effort, because this is an investment of time rather than a defensive maintenance job, and ti will maximise the revenue potential of the site in the long term.

Play_Bach




msg:1347245
 1:10 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Going against my position to NOT block anything - precisely because as incrediBILL points out - I know I don't have anywhere near enough info from Google to know what really is going on - I'm now blocking the ubiquitous 'complete our survey win a free gift' ads. These ads have been appearing on my sites for awhile now and I have a strong hunch that it's not just me that's getting fed up with them but my visitors as well.

incrediBILL




msg:1347246
 3:44 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

You don't need to travel the world or use proxies to find out what your visitors are clicking on- a good AdSense tracker does the job quite well. If you were tracking these clicks you would find that the same old ads are being clicked on by visitors from all over the world.

You miss the point.

The AdSense trackers only show you what's being clicked on and crap ads never get clicked much in the first place. They just clutter the ad space until Google demotes them so yes, you and your tracker know what's being clicked, but why would I block sites being clicked unless they are completely heinous?

I'm not an ad chaser and only have about 20 blocked, the worst was one ad that was showing up all over my site one day as someone used a different landing page for each incarnation of the URL and my CTR tanked until I got rid of them.

However, who can see this activity world wide?

You simply can't check it all - and the AdSense preview tool only gives you a partial picture per country, not state, province, region, etc.

Even if you could check it all, with only 200 filters you couldn't block everything impacting your site in the first place.

100% waste of time IMO as it's a losing battle.

incrediBILL




msg:1347247
 3:54 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

MFA's adopt a splatter gun approach and target worldwide

That's some of what I blocked when I saw them, but really bad crap local ads that don't entice the intended viewer to click can be worse IMO. At least the splatter gun MFA gets a lot of clicks, hate them or not, as they're in the business of arbitrage and good ads mean higher earnings for them means more clicks for you.

However, if I were a clever MFA running ads why would I do a global ad that can be easily stopped when I could easily target all the states and countries individually, with different domains even, just to stop people blocking ads from shutting down my entire operation.

21_blue




msg:1347248
 4:17 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

incrediBill wrote:
if I were a clever MFA running ads why would I do a global ad

And if I were a clever MFAer, I'd have lots of domain names and promote different domains in different regions.

Fortunately, though, MFAers don't have two brain cells to rub together. They are not only money-grabbling scumbags, but thick as two short planks. That means that we can rest easy, because we don't have to use many brain cells in combating them (? :-)).

Green_Grass




msg:1347249
 4:30 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I am a newbie but my site does not show any MFA 's on the home page( which is very focussed). Initially CPC was low but with smart pricing kicking in ( for the positive) , all MFA are out and only genuine advertisers are displaying ads.
Google did this by itself without any prompting or filtering by me. It took two months.

For some other pages with more general content, MFA 's are everywhere and very difficult to keep out. I fully agree . Maybe as conversions improve, smart pricing will throw them out automatically. I can dream on, can't I! :-)

humblebeginnings




msg:1347250
 4:34 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Fortunately, though, MFAers don't have two brain cells to rub together."

And that's why they are mentioned in about every thread in this forum...

annej




msg:1347251
 4:50 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

How do you set your Google Adsense Preview tool to other countries?

incrediBILL




msg:1347252
 4:57 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

How do you set your Google Adsense Preview tool to other countries?

When you bring up the AdSense Preview tool click "choose options" then select your Geo-target country.

MFAers don't have two brain cells to rub together

They're clever enough to run crawlers that scrape sites and crank out hundreds if not thousands of junk sites, splogs, and run ads that keep some of you chasing them across your website blocking the full 200 domains in AdSense so they can't be THAT dumb if they keep you that busy ;)

Nitrous




msg:1347253
 5:43 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

But since almost all of these sites break many of googles TOS why are they ever allowed to continue? It makes a mockery of adsense.

incrediBILL




msg:1347254
 6:08 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

almost all of these sites break many of googles TOS why are they ever allowed to continue?

That's a narrow view of what arbitrage sites are as EFV's site, for example purposes only, could easily become an arbitrage site by getting people looking for vacations to come to his site for $0.05 then potentially sign up for an affiliate's travel package paying much more than the cost of the click.

That wouldn't make his site MFA, nor against the rules, but it would certainly be a source of cheap clicks.

Heck, even I've done a little arbitrage until the keyword got too crowded and expensive, but it was to an existing site, was NOT made for AdSense.

Alex_Miles




msg:1347255
 6:36 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)


I find a little judicious pruning improves a CTR no end.

Nitrous




msg:1347256
 6:53 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I find removing all ads that lead to any page not actually selling anything lowers clickthrough by about 12 percent. But the much improved epc gives about 30 to 35 percent boost in income.

And its repeatable - removing the 200 banned urls reduces income and increases clickthrough.

This is over 15 genuine niche hobby sites, over two years with about 600 clicks per day.

Key_Master




msg:1347257
 7:18 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

...why would I block sites being clicked unless they are completely heinous?

Example:

Widget Information
Click here to learn everything you need to know about widgets.
widgets.scummy.mfa-site.com

Would you consider that heinous? Probably not. But the average user out there wouldn't know any better and would be more likely to click on that low paying ad. Who would want to steer their visitors to sites like that?

Geo targeted ads can be a good thing I think. Sometimes a familiar name can trigger interest by the visitor. On the other hand, I could see how dating or sites that cater to a localized market would trigger more Geo targeted ads.

By the way, you don't need to rely on a click to find out what ads your visitors are seeing. I haven't tried it yet but it is possible to read the AdSense iframe using JavaScript on each impression and log the advertisements being shown.

And I too find that blocking ads helps the bottom line.

david_uk




msg:1347258
 8:14 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

It's been my experience that Adsense regularly pays me 20-30 times the maximum amount I've ever earned from Fastclick. There's a very good reason for this - targetted ads that are appropriate to the page work, and they work really, really well. Generic ads you are lucky to get clicks on, and work best as cpm ads on my site.

So what happens if the ads aren't appropriate to the page? Poor ctr, poor value to advertisers, smartpricing whacks you, poor earnings, poor credibility of your site.

I appreciate that blocking MFA's isn't always going to work. I understand that in some niches or content area's it will be the case that blocking one MFA leads to another, and in some cases genuine advertisers may end up paying you no more than an MFA would. In that case, I'd agree that it seems not worth bothering doing. However, I'm not convinced that either case is true for the majority of sites.

bumpski




msg:1347259
 9:15 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

block ebay.com

incrediBILL




msg:1347260
 10:14 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think you guys missed my point as I'm not advocating not blocking domains.

I'm saying AdSense is HUGE and we really don't have the tools to do it right.

You can achieve some improvments by blocking what you can see but AdSense Preview doesn't show anything more specific than country and my point was, and continues to be, that I saw a lot of crap in 10 days in Florida that I don't see in California and I'm sure it's the same in every state.

Does AdSense preview give you state and province options?

Nooooooooooo......

Therefore, to really see all the crap per state you have to play the proxy game which is crazy.

Then you're still limited to 200 domains.

Come on AdSense, get with the program, give us better tools.

Oh WAIT!

If we had better tools we mught impact Google's bottom line.

Nevermind.

articlescafe




msg:1347261
 10:28 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I totally agree with incredibill.

I am very lucky to have a facility to access most of the city/country because of the nature of my working environment.

i hv clients almost everywhere in the world and they have terminal server open 24 hours for me.
But again as what incredibill mentioned, google has limitation of 200 lines only. I can easily get 1000 of them. If i put 200 in my filter list i can see I earn another 10% to 20% more. what happen if I can put 1000 of them.

[edited by: articlescafe at 10:36 pm (utc) on April 7, 2006]

Play_Bach




msg:1347262
 10:33 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Though I'm currently only blocking 4 domains, I do wonder why Google only allows for a max of 200. Why not 500 or 1,000? What's the rationale for 200?

articlescafe




msg:1347263
 10:35 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

hi bumpski,

ebay.com is only one of them. there are
ebay.com.uk
ebay.com.sg
ebay.com.my
ebay.com.id
ebay.com.cn
ebay.com.dm
ebay.com.in
ebay.com.au
ebay.com.gm
a ton more :)

Nitrous




msg:1347264
 10:55 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I unbanned ebay to put worse offenders in. The 200 is really a joke.

This 47 message thread spans 2 pages: 47 ( [1] 2 > >
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