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This 87 message thread spans 3 pages: 87 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
Expanding Your Site for AdSense Success
Linear Expansion versus Exponential Expansion
Andrew Bassett

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:18 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I must admit, this is a spinoff of ronburk's thread.

With all the talk of constantly adding content, nobody seems to talk about the fundamentally different ways of adding content.

Idea 1: Linear expansion
This is the idea where you sit down, drop your head, and pump out x new pages per day on a consistent basis. Maybe they're useful, maybe they're not, but your rate of expansion is somewhat fixed. You'll have 20 pages, then 40, then 60, and so on.

Idea 2: Exponential expansion
This is the idea where you say to yourself "OK, I'm going to have 30 pages in my first few months, ~1,000 in year 2, ~40,000 in year 3, ~3,000,000 in year 4, etc."

Idea 1 is the most touted around here, but idea 2 has more potential. In order to actually DO idea 2, you need the following:
- Technical knowledge on how to make a scalable website
- Ideas on how you're going to get your content (I can't write it all myself, and it's too expensive to hire someone, so maybe there's ANOTHER way...)
- The constant shift of power (make a community-driven site, delegate tasks to your trusted members and give them fancy titles, and turn your web SITE into a web APPLICATION). Make people feel like they NEED to visit your site every day (you all know the feeling)!

Those who bang away at idea 1 will, for the most part, be the bottom-feeders of AdSense. Those who have a vision and a plan for idea 2 have the best fighting chance at living off AdSense.

So if you're thinking about becoming an AdSensei, you need to seriously drop idea 1 and think about idea 2. Anyone can build a megasite; you might need to learn a programming language, develop a fancy data-mining algorithm, and study internet addiction, but anyone with an idea, some free time, and the burning desire to make it exist can build such a website.

 

LifeinAsia

WebmasterWorld Administrator lifeinasia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:39 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

IMO, pretty much anyone who makes a site just for the sake of AdSense revenue is a bottom feeder. MFAs are not touted around here- they are reviled.

I hear what you're saying, but I think you also need to consider what it sounds like you're saying.

Andrew Bassett

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:52 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Here's an example:

[webmasterworld.com...]

The suggestions on the above thread point Dr_JohnM pretty much entirely to idea 1; some suggested that he would be making thousands within months. IMO, whether it's MFA or not, such an approach is obviously being recommended quite a bit. Personally I think that if you want to be successful, you should think about making an explosive website, not a website with fixed growth.

Publisher

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:58 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I was under the impression that traffic was important, too. You can have 100,000 pages and if no one sees them, what's the point?

jomaxx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jomaxx us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:59 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I don't know. Apparently by vomiting thousands or millions of pages of "content" onto the Web, your site somehow becomes a success. It doesn't even seem to matter what the content is about or whether it has any intrinsic value. Very far from the strategy I would use if I were launching a new website.

Andrew Bassett

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 5:04 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Publisher, obviously that's true. One assumes that if a site is large, then it's already successful, and there must be traffic behind that success. Therefore, for idea 2, you must start with an idea that YOU KNOW can be successful; then you must let your visitors guide your way. Let them vote on what features they want, for example.

jomaxx, we're not arguing that useful content is important. Of course it is. That's not even up for debate.

londrum

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:16 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

i don't think writing more and more pages equates to getting more and more traffic.
it's bound to get you some, of course, but if people don't bookmark these pages, and click off them within a few seconds of arriving because they're rubbish, then your ranking is going to go nowhere.
i'm sure once your site reaches a certain size, another 100 pages-or-so isn't going to make much difference.

most people would be better off improving the content they've already got, and increase traffic that way. they'd get a lot more repeat visits too.

Fuzzyfish1000

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:25 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I totally agree with what Andrew has said... Unless you're the world's best writer, or you're knocking out pages of the next Harry Potter book (now there's an idea :-)), a linear site just won't cut the mustard. Exponential expansion, dynamic content, user driven material - that's the only sensible way forward. I like the idea of studying internet addiction - deff something I'm going to look at.

I don't think the point had anything to do with building sites for AdSense; I've always been of the opinion that advertising is an afterthought, not the reason, and the content is king...

alika

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:29 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Those who bang away at idea 1 will, for the most part, be the bottom-feeders of AdSense. Those who have a vision and a plan for idea 2 have the best fighting chance at living off AdSense.

Being methodical with the process of content creation is not a guarantee that people would go to your site and that you will be successful with Adsense. How well does your content fit with Adsense? Does your content actually generate high EPCs and ECPMs?

I used the first option to develop the content of my website -- writing several articles a week on a regular basis. No numbers - just depending on how inspired I am to write. I never even thought of coming up with some numbers as to how many pages I should have after a year or two years. Right now I have 5,400+ pages after years of just writing articles that I think our audience wants. I don't have a fix number in a week, much more in a year.

Yet I can say I am not a bottom feeder. If my eCPM hits $30, I'd cry and feel like a big loser. And I see many here saying they can't even get ECPMs of $10.

Success with Adsense depends on the content; not how fast or how methodical you are with the content creation process.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:37 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Unless you're the world's best writer, or you're knocking out pages of the next Harry Potter book (now there's an idea :-)), a linear site just won't cut the mustard. Exponential expansion, dynamic content, user driven material - that's the only sensible way forward.

Not true (and I can attest to that from personal experience).

Right now, keyword-driven, computer-generated sites that rely on user-created content are what datafeed affiliate sites were a few years ago. They aren't the next big thing; they're the last big thing, and if you're just discovering it, you're too late.

arubicus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:50 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Success with Adsense depends on the content; not how fast or how methodical you are with the content creation process."

Yep VALUE. This is where your success lies.

Pumping out pages is fine as long as the VALUE is there. This is what attracts people.

A better approach would be to pump out VALUABLE content as well as seek exponential growth. Why do either or?

Keep in mind there probably will be a point of diminishing returns when pumping out pages left and right. Especially on a seemingly static subject.

Leverage other's people's time and energy. Leverage your income. This will speed up the process and also help to break through the diminishing returns on your time energy. (especially when you automate).

You can start another venture when the automation/diminishing returns point is reached in which you repeat the process.

joftech

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 7:47 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I don't think it make sense to just be making content just because of Adsense revenue.

Content making (writing) ought to be straight from the heart, that way you will get connected with what people are looking for, not what the buzzword is. There writings on my blog that brings people everyday which i wrote when i was just pouring out my mind on an issue.

jomaxx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jomaxx us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 8:12 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Yes, that "bottom feeder" comment was unfortunately worded and was also incorrect. Andrew is describing one possible way forward but there's nothing special about it.

Of course I now realize after getting involved in this thread that Andrew Basset is the guy who posted "I haven't had a single click in two weeks" a few days ago. No offense intended, but why are you giving advice? I'll stick to taking my marching orders from Markus. :-)

[edited by: jomaxx at 8:19 pm (utc) on Mar. 29, 2006]

alika

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 8:18 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Andrew Basset is the guy who posted "I haven't had a single click in two weeks" a few days ago.

LOL Jomaxx .. maybe he's so busy creating content exponentially that he has no time to evaluate whether his website fits well with Adsense

Moosetick

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 8:22 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I wonder if anyone has tried creating a large (10000 page) site where the pages were created by randomly pulling words from a dictionary. That site would have lots of unique text and all kinds of key words. You could even make target keywords appear a desired % to gear the search engines towards that topic.

If you got all that indexed then they could throw ads up and when people got there and saw gibberish they would be likely to click on the ads since they were the only part that made sense. Obviously this would be a violation of the TOS and is not advisable but I wonder if it has been successfully tried.

joftech

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 8:34 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

""Of course I now realize after getting involved in this thread that Andrew Basset is the guy who posted "I haven't had a single click in two weeks" a few days ago. No offense intended, but why are you giving advice? I'll stick to taking my marching orders from Markus. :-)""

So Markus is now your Commander, funny how people like success stories.

alika

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 8:55 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Moosetick -- you are describing what many here call a scraper site, which is on top of the list of the most hated Made for Adsense sites

arubicus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 9:01 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

"funny how people like success stories"

Funny how people despite all the successes around them seem to keep a negative mind also.

Funny how the news is filled with negative in which people respond to by listening in day in and day out.

The thing about success stories true or not is that they move people emotionally. They get people to think and dream and progress when none is present or when things seem to be against a person.

Success stories have their place so does the pain filled news. They both work in similar fashion.

Sierra_Dad

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 9:42 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I wonder if anyone has tried creating a large (10000 page) site where the pages were created by randomly pulling words from a dictionary.

It most definitely has been tried. There are gobs of them out there. ;(

Sierra_Dad

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 10:08 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Those who bang away at idea 1 will, for the most part, be the bottom-feeders of AdSense. Those who have a vision and a plan for idea 2 have the best fighting chance at living off AdSense.

Good comments here about thinking exponentially.

However, I'd be hesitant to state that there is only one way to do things. A site which grows linearly in the amount of content but exponentially in the amount of traffic can do quite well. In fact, they can do better than an exponentially expanding site with only linear traffic growth.

I am thinking exponentially in planning a future site, because it does play to some of my strengths. And I do not think that scraper sites are the only way of using exponential ideas or automation.


nomis5

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 10:37 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think idea 2 won't work for reasons stated previously - pages that have no meaningful content don't work. Idea 1 has some basis in fact but is missing the point as far my experience goes. I have maybe 1000 pages on my site and 75% of the Adsense income comes from 5% of the pages.

The reason is clear - those 5% of pages deal in depth and informatively with items that people buy when they search on Google. Not applicable to my site but take the example of ice hockey. Write load of pages on ice hockey strategy and you will earn next to nothing. But add a few pages on the pros and cons of ice hockey sticks and special clothing and if those pages are intelligently and informatively written, they will earn you money. I know nothing about ice hockey by the way, but the idea holds true.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 10:40 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

And I do not think that scraper sites are the only way of using exponential ideas or automation.

"User review" sites are another popular way. This is a big problem in the travel and tech sectors, where some of the million-plus-page-sites' pages have useful content but many are simply empty vessels with a keyword and an invitation to "add your review." (I think tech is even worse than travel--try to find a laptop review at one of the big players, and there's a good chance that it will contain nothing but a model number, a photo, and price-comparison links.)

The spew-out-a-zillion-keyword-driven-template-pages approach isn't likely to have an indefinite shelf life, in my opinion, because the search engines can't afford to let their SERPs be polluted by the growing flood of computer-generated crap.

Andrew Bassett

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 11:25 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Of course I now realize after getting involved in this thread that Andrew Basset is the guy who posted "I haven't had a single click in two weeks" a few days ago. No offense intended, but why are you giving advice? I'll stick to taking my marching orders from Markus. :-)
Ah but you see exponential growth means that the first months will be incredibly crappy. You see, my whole plan is falling...

into place.

Swebbie

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 11:58 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think you're better off taking content and giving it away for links, once you've got the interesting topics covered thoroughly on your own site. Some sites lend themselves to constant updating, some do not. After organic search traffic, all of my sites get the most free traffic from links I gained by trading a nicely written page of content for a link back. It helps your search engine rankings and becomes a source of traffic independent of the engines.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:31 pm on Mar 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Success with Adsense depends on the content; not how fast or how methodical you are with the content creation process."

Yes, not only can you smell crap, you can size it up visually in a mere matter of seconds. In fact, there was a recent news article indicating that web users are becoming more adept at "crap identification".

You can buy links all day long, you can go after reciprocals till your fingers bleed, and you can waste countless hours thinking of how to blast your way to the end of the adsense rainbow. Over the long haul, though, the sites that survive and earn are those that offer something of intrinsic and UNIQUE value. And you don't get that with dynamically driven-this or keyword driven-that. Rather, it boils down to a certain amount of value-laden content that, by necessity, requires a fair amount of work. Which most people aren't willing to do. Which is why good content will always bear a strikingly non-odorous contrast to crap.

nonni

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 7:30 pm on Mar 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

How many 'pages' does Google have? Don't they make a good deal of money off 1 page (www.google.com)?

fischermx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 7:36 pm on Mar 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

That's a tricky part.
Google is service website. As well as Markus dating site is. That's somehow "easy" regarding not having to create content, just have a great damn good service.

So, I think this thread is about content websites.

ronburk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 8:19 pm on Mar 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Some sites lend themselves to constant updating, some do not.

Now there's a rare insight. Many a paper magazine has been run into the ground because the publisher insisted it keep growing and growing, requiring broader and broader content, making it less and less likely that most readers are going to be interested in most of the content.

Kufu

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 9:08 pm on Mar 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Any site, whether it is one page or a million pages, must generate return visitors in order to be successful. If someone is pumping out garbage content that is inaccurate, not useful, and generally bad, then the site will not have return visitors.

The line of thinking to follow is not how to generate millions of pages as quickly as possible, but how to increase traffic by retaining visitors by giving them something useful.

Troutnut

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 9:27 pm on Mar 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

"User review" sites are another popular way. This is a big problem in the travel and tech sectors, where some of the million-plus-page-sites' pages have useful content but many are simply empty vessels with a keyword and an invitation to "add your review."

Yeah, those things are a plague on the web.

The site I'm building has 10,000+ pages (each corresponding to a species of insect, rather than a product) but the 9500+ which contain no real information are hidden from the public interface. The administrator can browse the whole thing, and a page becomes live only when real content is added.

If only review sites had that kind of decency.

This 87 message thread spans 3 pages: 87 ( [1] 2 3 > >
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